Religious Freedom

[Sky Dancer]

What does it mean to you? What trends, if any, threaten that freedom?

For me, the Christian nationalist, Dominionist movement threatens religous freedom. This is a group that wants America to be a Christian theocracy.

Your thoughts?

Here's an article that is food for thought:
From March 2004 to October 2006, the filmmaker traveled the United States, tracking contemporary Christian Nationalism. The first video includes:

1.A City Upon a Hill – James Kennedy's Coral Ridge Ministries and its Christian dominion theology is discussed, and features a "Reclaiming America for Christ" conference and believers' comments. The video captures Mike Huckabee speaking to the Reclaiming America Christ conference, and Lt. Kenneth Beale bragging about the highest number of chaplains ever recruited into the military in 2005, and saying how important it is for military members to declare their faith and have born again experiences. According to the video, Coral Ridge Ministries has 10,000 members, enjoys 3 million weekly viewers of its "Coral Ridge Hour," and has an annual budget of $65 million. A psychologist explains the utopia, filled with supernatural powers, sought by believers in Dominionist theology. War on Christians. The Christian perception that Christians are persecuted and losing their rights — and the call for spiritual warfare in retaliation — is profiled. Fighters of this supposed war include Focus on the Family, Coral Ridge Ministries, Breakthrough Ministries, American Family Association, Family Research Council, Concerned Women for America, Traditional Values Coalition and Eagle Forum. At about 15:50 in the video, Chris Hedges talks about the dangers of this Christian Nation movement.

2.A New Crusade. The second section starts at approximately 16:26 and explores Battle Cry and how it whips up emotions with rock music and visuals for young people being trained to be spiritual warriors. The Battle Cry tells young people that non-Christians are pigs. Thousands upon thousands of America's young attend Battle Cry rallies, as shown in the video, screaming "I want the cross!" One young man talks about dying for the cause. It shows "Force Ministries" which takes a militaristic approach to violent Christianity. "Totalism" is the psychological equivalent to "Totalitarianism," according to the psychologist interviewed in this segment, who says that "Totalism" leads to unquestioned guru following.


http://www.goddiscussion.com/27957/...of-christian-nationalism-in-post-911-america/

 

[kwc57]

I'm 53. I've been a evangelical Christian/Southern Baptist all of my life. I've never felt in the past or the present that the government or anyone has infringed on my freedom to practice my religion as I choose. My faith and relationship with God is personal and no one in the future can take that away from me.

I'm not one of those Christians who gets all up in arms over things like no prayer in schools or attempts to remove God from the Pledge. Actually, I don't want schools teaching my son about faith or religion. That is the parents and their church's job.

Where I would have an issue is if the governement were to ever try to outlaw churches and congregational worship. I know all the hand wringing, talk radio dittoheads fear that "the Obama" might try to do these kinds of things..........it will never happen. Americans, religious or not won't stand for it.

 

[hipeter924]

Religion should be secondary to human rights, that means you can't go around killing Jews, putting homosexuals to death, banning someone from saying something nasty about your god but generally these are things already pretty much accepted values in the west. The problem is that most Muslims want their religion to be dominant and go to great lengths to try and give themselves special status including calling anyone who criticizes Islam an Islamophobe or a racist and trying to shut up people by any means necessary and in the case of European film makers that means killing them.

Maybe we should be asking for protection of our own values against Muslims, maybe our own law where Muslim's can't take away our human rights or freedom of speech. No wait, that's the US constitution.

 

[Immanuel]

To me, religious freedom means the right to practice our faiths, or not to practice any faith, as we see fit free from any interference by the government or anyone else. I as a Christian have the right to practice my faith inside or outside of a place of worship. My Jewish, Muslim, [insert faith here], Atheistic neighbors have that same right.

This would preclude the government from ever setting up a Theocracy because invariably setting up a Theocracy would mean that the government would force whatever religion won the war down the throats of anyone else who did not practice that particular faith. I as an evangelical Christian do not believe that conversion by force is conversion at all.

I am not opposed to having "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance as I do not see that as a statement of faith although I realize some do. I respect the right of students to pray in public school even as a group. I do not believe that any student should be forced to pray in school.

Freedom means we have the right to make our own choices. That is why I support the Separation of Church and State. Mixing the two leads to the elimination of choice.

That being said, I do not oppose allowing people to put religious displays, i.e. Christmas or Chanukah, on public property as long as all faiths are allowed the same freedom.

Immie

 

[Madeline]

I realize this is a niche issue, but I am disturbed by the apologists for the RCC who wish away the sex abuse crisis(es). It amazes me that people are confused as to whether being molested by a priest or nun was detrimental to a child's life. I cannot imagine much that would be more devastating, and it had seemed to me we were making progress in fighting child sex abuse until this happened.

Whatever your personal belief system might be, I'd like to think we all value the safety of children above the depravity of adults...but t'ain't always so.

 

[Smartt33]

What does it mean to you? What trends, if any, threaten that freedom?

For me, the Christian nationalist, Dominionist movement threatens religous freedom. This is a group that wants America to be a Christian theocracy.

Your thoughts?

Here's an article that is food for thought:
From March 2004 to October 2006, the filmmaker traveled the United States, tracking contemporary Christian Nationalism. The first video includes:

1.A City Upon a Hill – James Kennedy's Coral Ridge Ministries and its Christian dominion theology is discussed, and features a "Reclaiming America for Christ" conference and believers' comments. The video captures Mike Huckabee speaking to the Reclaiming America Christ conference, and Lt. Kenneth Beale bragging about the highest number of chaplains ever recruited into the military in 2005, and saying how important it is for military members to declare their faith and have born again experiences. According to the video, Coral Ridge Ministries has 10,000 members, enjoys 3 million weekly viewers of its "Coral Ridge Hour," and has an annual budget of $65 million. A psychologist explains the utopia, filled with supernatural powers, sought by believers in Dominionist theology. War on Christians. The Christian perception that Christians are persecuted and losing their rights — and the call for spiritual warfare in retaliation — is profiled. Fighters of this supposed war include Focus on the Family, Coral Ridge Ministries, Breakthrough Ministries, American Family Association, Family Research Council, Concerned Women for America, Traditional Values Coalition and Eagle Forum. At about 15:50 in the video, Chris Hedges talks about the dangers of this Christian Nation movement.

2.A New Crusade. The second section starts at approximately 16:26 and explores Battle Cry and how it whips up emotions with rock music and visuals for young people being trained to be spiritual warriors. The Battle Cry tells young people that non-Christians are pigs. Thousands upon thousands of America's young attend Battle Cry rallies, as shown in the video, screaming "I want the cross!" One young man talks about dying for the cause. It shows "Force Ministries" which takes a militaristic approach to violent Christianity. "Totalism" is the psychological equivalent to "Totalitarianism," according to the psychologist interviewed in this segment, who says that "Totalism" leads to unquestioned guru following.


American Crusaders: The Rise of Christian Nationalism in Post-911 America | God Discussion

Religious freedom as usually addressed on message boards is about government, rights, and laws. I personally believe the ultimate freedom for believers is found in the "fruit of the Spirit." "The fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and temperance." Scripture tells us that against these there is "no law."

Freedom within is far greater than freedom in the world. I have heard it said by prisoners, "I have never been so free as I am now that I have confessed all my wrongs, repented, and found peace. In prison I will have far more peace than I had out there."

When I teach, wherever I teach, If I am led by the Holy Spirit to speak of Him, I do. The motivation behind that speaking is love, and obedience to the Father. While I may get into trouble for doing this, I am not going to be bound by man's laws not to continue. There is peace and freedom in speaking the Gospel.

That is what religious freedom means to me.

 

[hipeter924]

Total religious freedom implies the right to cause violence in the name of a religion, it even allows Aztec style human sacrifice, perhaps when they wrote the declaration of human rights they failed to realize that total religious freedom meant that, or they were just a bunch of sadists that wrote that part to fuck people's minds up.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

There is no mainstream movement to turn the S into a Christian Theocracy. At best it is a minor, unimportant fringe element with no power. You claim there are 35 million of them , name some. Tell us where they reside, what their group is called mainstream.

Further you claimed Bush was their apostle. Yet you can not name a single thing he did to encourage or support a religious theocracy while President.

You are in no danger of a Christian theocracy in the United States, it is not going to happen. However as the Muslim population grows you ARE in danger of Sharia law being passed to appease them, as has happened in Canada and else where.

I still want to know what some evil Christian did to you that makes you spot this nonsense and attack the Christian faith.

 

[hipeter924]

There is no mainstream movement to turn the S into a Christian Theocracy. At best it is a minor, unimportant fringe element with no power. You claim there are 35 million of them , name some. Tell us where they reside, what their group is called mainstream.

Further you claimed Bush was their apostle. Yet you can not name a single thing he did to encourage or support a religious theocracy while President.

You are in no danger of a Christian theocracy in the United States, it is not going to happen. However as the Muslim population grows you ARE in danger of Sharia law being passed to appease them, as has happened in Canada and else where.

I still want to know what some evil Christian did to you that makes you spot this nonsense and attack the Christian faith.

They don't want to listen, despite the fact that Christopher Hitchens has torn their evidence to shreds every time they call Bush a theocracy supporter or rant on about 'secret' Christian movements to establish one; they just keep coming.

 

[Sky Dancer]

What is Christian Nationalism? An article by Michelle Goldberg

"Christian nationalists believe in a revisionist history, which holds that the founders were devout Christians who never intended to create a secular republic; separation of church and state, according to this history, is a fraud perpetrated by God-hating subversives. One of the foremost Christian revisionist historians is David Barton, who , in addition to running an organization called Wallbuilders that disseminates Christian nationalist books, tracts and videos, is also the vice-chairman of the Texas Republican Party. The goal of Christian nationalist politics is the restoration of the imagined Christian nation. As George Grant, former executive director of D. James Kennedy's influential Coral Ridge Ministries, wrote in his book "The Changing of the Guard:""Christians have an obligation, a mandate, a commission, a holy responsibility to reclaim the land for Jesus Christ -- to have dominion in civil structures, just as in every other aspect of life and godliness.

But it is dominion we are after. Not just a voice.
It is dominion we are after. Not just influence.
It is dominion we are after. Not just equal time.
It is dominion we are after.
World conquest. That's what Christ has commissioned us to accomplish."

In the Christian nationalist vision of America, non-believers would be free to worship as they choose, as long as they know their place. When Venkatachalapathi Samuldrala became the first Hindu priest to offer an invocation before Congress, the Family Research Council issued a furious statement that reveals much about the America they'd like to create:

"While it is true that the United States of America was founded on the sacred principle of religious freedom for all, that liberty was never intended to exalt other religions to the level that Christianity holds in our country's heritage...Our founders expected that Christianity -- and no other religion -- would receive support from the government as long as that support did not violate peoples' consciences and their right to worship. They would have found utterly incredible the idea that all religions, including paganism, be treated with equal deference."
Talk To Action | What is Christian nationalism?

 

[Madeline]

Dangerous nutters, Sky Dancer. I suspect many people sympathize with this group.

 

[Sky Dancer]

It's more on the order of conspiracy theory, Madeline. It's fear based writing. Takes a number of groups and lumps them together making the 'movement' seem colossal. Political activism getting confused with totalitarianism. Chris Hedges is one of the chief architects fueling the fear. He writes about a nebulous group called Christian Fascists, but who are the so-called Christian Fascists?

Here's an example. It's compelling writing but it's not true
http://www.greenchange.org/article.php?id=5902

Having survived the defeat of marriage equality in my state, I can see why I was vulnerable to believing all this. I was wrong.

 

[Hister]

There is no mainstream movement to turn the S into a Christian Theocracy.

It's called the republican party. They want to teach creationism, outlaw abortion, outlaw gay marriage, support Israel for the sole purpose of helping to bring on the end of times, support a strong military for their continuing crusades (Bush's word) against muslims, blew up the WTC, ...
Man, you have serious issues with either not being able to see what's going on around you. Go have a cold shower, it might wake you up.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

There is no mainstream movement to turn the S into a Christian Theocracy.

It's called the republican party. They want to teach creationism, outlaw abortion, outlaw gay marriage, support Israel for the sole purpose of helping to bring on the end of times, support a strong military for their continuing crusades (Bush's word) against muslims, blew up the WTC, ...
Man, you have serious issues with either not being able to see what's going on around you. Go have a cold shower, it might wake you up.

If your serious, I can suggest a couple professionals to help you with your delusions.

 

[Hister]

There is no mainstream movement to turn the S into a Christian Theocracy.

It's called the republican party. They want to teach creationism, outlaw abortion, outlaw gay marriage, support Israel for the sole purpose of helping to bring on the end of times, support a strong military for their continuing crusades (Bush's word) against muslims, blew up the WTC, ...
Man, you have serious issues with either not being able to see what's going on around you. Go have a cold shower, it might wake you up.

If your serious, I can suggest a couple professionals to help you with your delusions.

Why? Which part isn't true?

 

[Sky Dancer]

The Dominionists exist. It can't be proved they exist in the numbers suggested by the articles. The articles make the movement seem broader and more pervasive than it is.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

It's called the republican party. They want to teach creationism, outlaw abortion, outlaw gay marriage, support Israel for the sole purpose of helping to bring on the end of times, support a strong military for their continuing crusades (Bush's word) against muslims, blew up the WTC, ...
Man, you have serious issues with either not being able to see what's going on around you. Go have a cold shower, it might wake you up.

If your serious, I can suggest a couple professionals to help you with your delusions.

Why? Which part isn't true?

You are aware that 19 Arab terrorists blew up the World Trade center right?

Provide evidence that a plank of the Republican party is to teach creationism in a SCIENCE class.

Provide evidence that a plank in the Republican Platform is to abolish all abortions, then explain how they have the votes and the Judges to do it.

Gay Marriage is already not valid except in a couple States and then only because Judges legislated from the bench. Hate to break it to you but California is MOSTLY Democrats and THEY voted against Gay marriage.

Democrats and Republicans support Israel because they are our ALLY. They are the ONLY real Democracy in the Middle East and they are good friends.

Democrats and Republicans support the war in Iraq and Afghanistan because they were the right things to do. By the way, dumb ass, the Democrats have had OVERWHELMING control of Congress ( both Houses) for almost 4 YEARS now. Who do you think is voting to continue said wars?

You are in serious need of Professional help, you are delusional and probably worse.

 

[editec]

One has 100% religious freedom just so long as that religion doesn't conflict with secular laws.

That means, I suppose, that some of us have religious freedom.

That means, I know, that some of us don't.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

One has 100% religious freedom just so long as that religion doesn't conflict with secular laws.

That means, I suppose, that some of us have religious freedom.

That means, I know, that some of us don't.

Damn pesky Government preventing some religions from eating dead people, others from ripping the hearts out of others. Or are you going to claim you are an American Indian and should be allowed to smoke dope for your RELIGION?

 

[Sky Dancer]

Here's a lengthy article about the political mobilizaton of the Christian right.

"The so-called super churches, like Jerry Falwell's Thomas Road Baptist Church, took on a wide range of functions and developed into religious equivalents of major corporations."
The Political Mobilization of the New Christian Right by Bryan Le Beau (Part 1)http://are.as.wvu.edu/lebeau2.htm