Religions are fairy tales for adults. Should we encourage them to grow up?

[Dajjal]

I've always been fascinated by a collection of cold, hard facts:
Nobody asks to be born
Nobody has anything to say about when or where they'll be born
Nobody has anything to say about who their parents will be
Nobody has anything to say about what their appearance will be
Nobody has anything to say about whether or not they'll be crippled
Nobody has anything to say about whether they will have an IQ of 70 or 170
What makes anybody think they're any different than other mammals?
There are presently over 5400 known mammalian species.
Screw Ancient Gods. They're all the same...made up by men. have you ever noticed that god and Jesus and the holy ghost are all males?
The Jesus story had to be impressive so they told that his Mama was a virgin...LMAO!!!
Pure, Major, Bullshit!!!

In my time attending trance lectures at the spiritualist association in London (33 belgrave sq) I heard much about what happens after death, between incarnations. The spirit guides said we are all on a long journey of as many as thousands of incarnations, which can occur on many different inhabited planets. When we die we find ourselves in a higher dimension on a plane that our spiritual state of evolution corresponds too. Some unholy souls will find themselves in darkness, but most decent people find themselves in a realm they might mistake for heaven. But eventually our souls realize we are not perfected and we need further incarnation. Both for experience, sake and for the settling of Karma from past lives. Karma cannot be settled in the spirit world and needs the circumstances of physical incarnation. So eventually we choose to incarnate and at that time we do have some say over the conditions we will incarnate into. But in the end the final determination will be made by the angels of karma, who dispassionately place us in the circumstances where our karma can be paid. So we might find ourselves suffering, or being a cripple, not just as a punishment for past actions, but because our soul needs to learn empathy or compassion, or other reasons.
Eventually the cycle of the soul will be completed, and we will rise up as immortal beings that no longer need incarnation, after which we will join the great eternal brotherhood of enlightened spirits. We may then choose to try to inspire people who are still incarnate from behind the scenes as spirit guides. Or we may just move on up into higher realms and not look back.

I have mentioned the angels, and they are a separate race of beings that never incarnate, and they work behind the scenes to carry out the divine plan.

 

[hobelim]

To make it easy for you to dismiss me I can tell you that I was diagnosed a schizophrenic in 1969. After two years of heavy medication I was told I would have to stay on drugs for life. I promptly walked out of the clinic.
I then embarked on a search for other explanations for my experiences and started going to a spiritualist church. I had a feeling like fire flowing through several places in my body and after some time studying the subject I was told that my etheric body was loose and my chakras were consequently miss aligned. I

I suppose a person suffering from schizophrenia would find it easier to believe a church telling them that they have some special 'etheric' body that needed to be aligned than they would be to accept a psychiatrist telling them that they have a mental illness.

Either way you were out of whack. I'm glad that you are better now.

I once knew a girl who has a psychotic break with reality because saw those garfield cats they used to have in car windows several times a week and was certain the mafia was sending her messages that they were going to kill her cat.

She didn't believe that she had a thought disorder either....

I said I had feelings of fire flowing through my chakras, and I also had feelings like cobwebs floating over my skin. Then I saw a diagram of the chakras in a book called 'alternative London' and I recognised them as the places where I felt the fire flowing. It took quite a few visits to mediums to get the explanation that my etheric body was loose, as that is not common knowledge even among psychics. I then studied theosophical books on the subtle bodies and began to be able to control my chakras by willpower.

I hope that one day psychiatrists will discover these things for themselves, and then they may really be able to help people instead of just drugging them.

I do not doubt that you 'felt' fire or had 'feelings' of cobwebs floating over your skin just like I know that the girl I knew actually saw garfield cats stuck on the inside of car windows driving all over town. I saw them too. The problem is in your conclusion about those 'feelings' which were not fire or cobwebs just like her irrational conclusion that what she saw was evidence that the mafia was going to kill her cat.

I'm sure that no one knows better than you how sick your mind was at the time. I suggest that you reevaluate the conclusions made in such a disintegrated, confused, and impaired state of consciousness. That you were able to 'control' your chakras by willpower to me just means that you were able to control your hallucinations by willpower. If you went to some other church during that time you might have just as easily come to the conclusion that you were able to control your demons by prayer or by eating Jesus crackers..

Having feelings of fire or floating cobwebs on your skin that were not fire or cobwebs and identifying them as chakras because you saw a picture in a book is really not evidence of any alternate reality with invisible spirits, etheric bodies, and multiple incarnations except in your own mind. .

 

[Dajjal]

To make it easy for you to dismiss me I can tell you that I was diagnosed a schizophrenic in 1969. After two years of heavy medication I was told I would have to stay on drugs for life. I promptly walked out of the clinic.
I then embarked on a search for other explanations for my experiences and started going to a spiritualist church. I had a feeling like fire flowing through several places in my body and after some time studying the subject I was told that my etheric body was loose and my chakras were consequently miss aligned. I

I suppose a person suffering from schizophrenia would find it easier to believe a church telling them that they have some special 'etheric' body that needed to be aligned than they would be to accept a psychiatrist telling them that they have a mental illness.

Either way you were out of whack. I'm glad that you are better now.

I once knew a girl who has a psychotic break with reality because saw those garfield cats they used to have in car windows several times a week and was certain the mafia was sending her messages that they were going to kill her cat.

She didn't believe that she had a thought disorder either....

I said I had feelings of fire flowing through my chakras, and I also had feelings like cobwebs floating over my skin. Then I saw a diagram of the chakras in a book called 'alternative London' and I recognised them as the places where I felt the fire flowing. It took quite a few visits to mediums to get the explanation that my etheric body was loose, as that is not common knowledge even among psychics. I then studied theosophical books on the subtle bodies and began to be able to control my chakras by willpower.

I hope that one day psychiatrists will discover these things for themselves, and then they may really be able to help people instead of just drugging them.

I do not doubt that you 'felt' fire or had 'feelings' of cobwebs floating over your skin just like I know that the girl I knew actually saw garfield cats stuck on the inside of car windows driving all over town. I saw them too. The problem is in your conclusion about those 'feelings' which were not fire or cobwebs just like her irrational conclusion that what she saw was evidence that the mafia was going to kill her cat.

I'm sure that no one knows better than you how sick your mind was at the time. I suggest that you reevaluate the conclusions made in such a disintegrated, confused, and impaired state of consciousness. That you were able to 'control' your chakras by willpower to me just means that you were able to control your hallucinations by willpower. If you went to some other church during that time you might have just as easily come to the conclusion that you were able to control your demons by prayer or by eating Jesus crackers..

Having feelings of fire or floating cobwebs on your skin that were not fire or cobwebs and identifying them as chakras because you saw a picture in a book is really not evidence of any alternate reality with invisible spirits, etheric bodies, and multiple incarnations except in your own mind. .

Experts would agree with you. Most Psychiatrists and psychologists would agree with you. In fact I had to fight against their judgments to free myself from heavy medication. It is the sum of my experience that there really is a spirit world, and spiritual healing can restore damage to the etheric body.
In the same town you can go to a psychiatric clinic and be treated as insane and deluded, and a few streets away you can go to a spiritualist church and get real help from people that have true knowledge of the psychic.

 

[hobelim]

To make it easy for you to dismiss me I can tell you that I was diagnosed a schizophrenic in 1969. After two years of heavy medication I was told I would have to stay on drugs for life. I promptly walked out of the clinic.
I then embarked on a search for other explanations for my experiences and started going to a spiritualist church. I had a feeling like fire flowing through several places in my body and after some time studying the subject I was told that my etheric body was loose and my chakras were consequently miss aligned. I

I suppose a person suffering from schizophrenia would find it easier to believe a church telling them that they have some special 'etheric' body that needed to be aligned than they would be to accept a psychiatrist telling them that they have a mental illness.

Either way you were out of whack. I'm glad that you are better now.

I once knew a girl who has a psychotic break with reality because saw those garfield cats they used to have in car windows several times a week and was certain the mafia was sending her messages that they were going to kill her cat.

She didn't believe that she had a thought disorder either....

I said I had feelings of fire flowing through my chakras, and I also had feelings like cobwebs floating over my skin. Then I saw a diagram of the chakras in a book called 'alternative London' and I recognised them as the places where I felt the fire flowing. It took quite a few visits to mediums to get the explanation that my etheric body was loose, as that is not common knowledge even among psychics. I then studied theosophical books on the subtle bodies and began to be able to control my chakras by willpower.

I hope that one day psychiatrists will discover these things for themselves, and then they may really be able to help people instead of just drugging them.

I do not doubt that you 'felt' fire or had 'feelings' of cobwebs floating over your skin just like I know that the girl I knew actually saw garfield cats stuck on the inside of car windows driving all over town. I saw them too. The problem is in your conclusion about those 'feelings' which were not fire or cobwebs just like her irrational conclusion that what she saw was evidence that the mafia was going to kill her cat.

I'm sure that no one knows better than you how sick your mind was at the time. I suggest that you reevaluate the conclusions made in such a disintegrated, confused, and impaired state of consciousness. That you were able to 'control' your chakras by willpower to me just means that you were able to control your hallucinations by willpower. If you went to some other church during that time you might have just as easily come to the conclusion that you were able to control your demons by prayer or by eating Jesus crackers..

Having feelings of fire or floating cobwebs on your skin that were not fire or cobwebs and identifying them as chakras because you saw a picture in a book is really not evidence of any alternate reality with invisible spirits, etheric bodies, and multiple incarnations except in your own mind. .

Experts would agree with you. Most Psychiatrists and psychologists would agree with you. In fact I had to fight against their judgments to free myself from heavy medication. It is the sum of my experience that there really is a spirit world, and spiritual healing can restore damage to the etheric body.
In the same town you can go to a psychiatric clinic and be treated as insane and deluded, and a few streets away you can go to a spiritualist church and get real help from people that have true knowledge of the psychic.

Please don't get me wrong. I do not agree with the use of chemical straightjackets except under extreme circumstances. Neither do I believe that medication is going to clear up any thought disorders, except by making people not care that their mind and life is in disarray. What you call spirit world I would call the realm of consciousness and what you would call the etheric body I would call the individual conscious mind. It follows then that what you define as spiritual healing corresponds to what I see as the healing of the mind bringing clarity where there once was confusion and peace where there once was conflict and joy when there once was despair, something only words can do, something entirely perceived in the mind, and something that all of the medication in the world cannot ever provide for even one person.

I'm glad that you have found a better way through spirituality, but do mot be misled into thinking that there is something mystical or supernatural about things entirely rooted and perceived in the natural mind. If you do you risk becoming worse off than you were before, even if you feel better.

 

[Dajjal]

To make it easy for you to dismiss me I can tell you that I was diagnosed a schizophrenic in 1969. After two years of heavy medication I was told I would have to stay on drugs for life. I promptly walked out of the clinic.
I then embarked on a search for other explanations for my experiences and started going to a spiritualist church. I had a feeling like fire flowing through several places in my body and after some time studying the subject I was told that my etheric body was loose and my chakras were consequently miss aligned. I

I suppose a person suffering from schizophrenia would find it easier to believe a church telling them that they have some special 'etheric' body that needed to be aligned than they would be to accept a psychiatrist telling them that they have a mental illness.

Either way you were out of whack. I'm glad that you are better now.

I once knew a girl who has a psychotic break with reality because saw those garfield cats they used to have in car windows several times a week and was certain the mafia was sending her messages that they were going to kill her cat.

She didn't believe that she had a thought disorder either....

I said I had feelings of fire flowing through my chakras, and I also had feelings like cobwebs floating over my skin. Then I saw a diagram of the chakras in a book called 'alternative London' and I recognised them as the places where I felt the fire flowing. It took quite a few visits to mediums to get the explanation that my etheric body was loose, as that is not common knowledge even among psychics. I then studied theosophical books on the subtle bodies and began to be able to control my chakras by willpower.

I hope that one day psychiatrists will discover these things for themselves, and then they may really be able to help people instead of just drugging them.

I do not doubt that you 'felt' fire or had 'feelings' of cobwebs floating over your skin just like I know that the girl I knew actually saw garfield cats stuck on the inside of car windows driving all over town. I saw them too. The problem is in your conclusion about those 'feelings' which were not fire or cobwebs just like her irrational conclusion that what she saw was evidence that the mafia was going to kill her cat.

I'm sure that no one knows better than you how sick your mind was at the time. I suggest that you reevaluate the conclusions made in such a disintegrated, confused, and impaired state of consciousness. That you were able to 'control' your chakras by willpower to me just means that you were able to control your hallucinations by willpower. If you went to some other church during that time you might have just as easily come to the conclusion that you were able to control your demons by prayer or by eating Jesus crackers..

Having feelings of fire or floating cobwebs on your skin that were not fire or cobwebs and identifying them as chakras because you saw a picture in a book is really not evidence of any alternate reality with invisible spirits, etheric bodies, and multiple incarnations except in your own mind. .

Experts would agree with you. Most Psychiatrists and psychologists would agree with you. In fact I had to fight against their judgments to free myself from heavy medication. It is the sum of my experience that there really is a spirit world, and spiritual healing can restore damage to the etheric body.
In the same town you can go to a psychiatric clinic and be treated as insane and deluded, and a few streets away you can go to a spiritualist church and get real help from people that have true knowledge of the psychic.

Please don't get me wrong. I do not agree with the use of chemical straightjackets except under extreme circumstances. Neither do I believe that medication is going to clear up any thought disorders, except by making people not care that their mind and life is in disarray. What you call spirit world I would call the realm of consciousness and what you would call the etheric body I would call the individual conscious mind. It follows then that what you define as spiritual healing corresponds to what I see as the healing of the mind bringing clarity where there once was confusion and peace where there once was conflict and joy when there once was despair, something only words can do, something entirely perceived in the mind, and something that all of the medication in the world cannot ever provide for even one person.

I'm glad that you have found a better way through spirituality, but do mot be misled into thinking that there is something mystical or supernatural about things entirely rooted and perceived in the natural mind. If you do you risk becoming worse off than you were before, even if you feel better.

I can only tell you the sum of my experience, which is I could control my chakras and channel energy through them to heal myself. But that was after the first couple of years of having healing in a spiritualist healing service. I could often feel the healing being given to me by spiritualist healers, and I felt it as heat and I could often feel the effects for a couple of days afterward. At that time I was not mentally strong enough to heal my self and I did not know enough about the chakras. But I learned about them and went to healing classes at the spiritualist association in London, and I gradually found I could channel the energy for myself.
I guess you will have to seek other explanations, like I am deluded and it was all imaginary. But I can tell you the chakras are real.

 

[Dajjal]

Here is a diagram with the minor chakras. Most diagrams only have the main seven, but the ones in the palms of the hands are important to channel energy through.

 

[hobelim]

I suppose a person suffering from schizophrenia would find it easier to believe a church telling them that they have some special 'etheric' body that needed to be aligned than they would be to accept a psychiatrist telling them that they have a mental illness.

Either way you were out of whack. I'm glad that you are better now.

I once knew a girl who has a psychotic break with reality because saw those garfield cats they used to have in car windows several times a week and was certain the mafia was sending her messages that they were going to kill her cat.

She didn't believe that she had a thought disorder either....

I said I had feelings of fire flowing through my chakras, and I also had feelings like cobwebs floating over my skin. Then I saw a diagram of the chakras in a book called 'alternative London' and I recognised them as the places where I felt the fire flowing. It took quite a few visits to mediums to get the explanation that my etheric body was loose, as that is not common knowledge even among psychics. I then studied theosophical books on the subtle bodies and began to be able to control my chakras by willpower.

I hope that one day psychiatrists will discover these things for themselves, and then they may really be able to help people instead of just drugging them.

I do not doubt that you 'felt' fire or had 'feelings' of cobwebs floating over your skin just like I know that the girl I knew actually saw garfield cats stuck on the inside of car windows driving all over town. I saw them too. The problem is in your conclusion about those 'feelings' which were not fire or cobwebs just like her irrational conclusion that what she saw was evidence that the mafia was going to kill her cat.

I'm sure that no one knows better than you how sick your mind was at the time. I suggest that you reevaluate the conclusions made in such a disintegrated, confused, and impaired state of consciousness. That you were able to 'control' your chakras by willpower to me just means that you were able to control your hallucinations by willpower. If you went to some other church during that time you might have just as easily come to the conclusion that you were able to control your demons by prayer or by eating Jesus crackers..

Having feelings of fire or floating cobwebs on your skin that were not fire or cobwebs and identifying them as chakras because you saw a picture in a book is really not evidence of any alternate reality with invisible spirits, etheric bodies, and multiple incarnations except in your own mind. .

Experts would agree with you. Most Psychiatrists and psychologists would agree with you. In fact I had to fight against their judgments to free myself from heavy medication. It is the sum of my experience that there really is a spirit world, and spiritual healing can restore damage to the etheric body.
In the same town you can go to a psychiatric clinic and be treated as insane and deluded, and a few streets away you can go to a spiritualist church and get real help from people that have true knowledge of the psychic.

Please don't get me wrong. I do not agree with the use of chemical straightjackets except under extreme circumstances. Neither do I believe that medication is going to clear up any thought disorders, except by making people not care that their mind and life is in disarray. What you call spirit world I would call the realm of consciousness and what you would call the etheric body I would call the individual conscious mind. It follows then that what you define as spiritual healing corresponds to what I see as the healing of the mind bringing clarity where there once was confusion and peace where there once was conflict and joy when there once was despair, something only words can do, something entirely perceived in the mind, and something that all of the medication in the world cannot ever provide for even one person.

I'm glad that you have found a better way through spirituality, but do mot be misled into thinking that there is something mystical or supernatural about things entirely rooted and perceived in the natural mind. If you do you risk becoming worse off than you were before, even if you feel better.

I can only tell you the sum of my experience, which is I could control my chakras and channel energy through them to heal myself. But that was after the first couple of years of having healing in a spiritualist healing service. I could often feel the healing being given to me by spiritualist healers, and I felt it as heat and I could often feel the effects for a couple of days afterward. At that time I was not mentally strong enough to heal my self and I did not know enough about the chakras. But I learned about them and went to healing classes at the spiritualist association in London, and I gradually found I could channel the energy for myself.
I guess you will have to seek other explanations, like I am deluded and it was all imaginary. But I can tell you the chakras are real.

I am willing to consider the possibility. And I have seen you demonstrate a very rational intelligence when denouncing Islam so I would not be so quick to dismiss your perceptions as delusional or imaginary. I would more likely see it as either a misidentification of something that has a basis in reality or even that it might be something real that I never learned about before. If so my question to myself is how is it possible that I have made it through life just fine without chakras or heat healing of etheric bodies in a spiritual world filled with incorporeal beings that speak through mediums.

I have often felt heat in the palms of my hands but I never assumed that body heat was evidence of some mysterious healing ability. That would be very exciting in a specious sort of way but also very irrational.

You say that you were healed and have learned to heal yourself through chakras.

If so, what was wrong with you and what was healed? Was it physical healing? was it some ambiguous sense of well being that only lasted for a little while after church? Did you receive answers to the questions in your mind?

 

[Dajjal]

I said I had feelings of fire flowing through my chakras, and I also had feelings like cobwebs floating over my skin. Then I saw a diagram of the chakras in a book called 'alternative London' and I recognised them as the places where I felt the fire flowing. It took quite a few visits to mediums to get the explanation that my etheric body was loose, as that is not common knowledge even among psychics. I then studied theosophical books on the subtle bodies and began to be able to control my chakras by willpower.

I hope that one day psychiatrists will discover these things for themselves, and then they may really be able to help people instead of just drugging them.

I do not doubt that you 'felt' fire or had 'feelings' of cobwebs floating over your skin just like I know that the girl I knew actually saw garfield cats stuck on the inside of car windows driving all over town. I saw them too. The problem is in your conclusion about those 'feelings' which were not fire or cobwebs just like her irrational conclusion that what she saw was evidence that the mafia was going to kill her cat.

I'm sure that no one knows better than you how sick your mind was at the time. I suggest that you reevaluate the conclusions made in such a disintegrated, confused, and impaired state of consciousness. That you were able to 'control' your chakras by willpower to me just means that you were able to control your hallucinations by willpower. If you went to some other church during that time you might have just as easily come to the conclusion that you were able to control your demons by prayer or by eating Jesus crackers..

Having feelings of fire or floating cobwebs on your skin that were not fire or cobwebs and identifying them as chakras because you saw a picture in a book is really not evidence of any alternate reality with invisible spirits, etheric bodies, and multiple incarnations except in your own mind. .

Experts would agree with you. Most Psychiatrists and psychologists would agree with you. In fact I had to fight against their judgments to free myself from heavy medication. It is the sum of my experience that there really is a spirit world, and spiritual healing can restore damage to the etheric body.
In the same town you can go to a psychiatric clinic and be treated as insane and deluded, and a few streets away you can go to a spiritualist church and get real help from people that have true knowledge of the psychic.

Please don't get me wrong. I do not agree with the use of chemical straightjackets except under extreme circumstances. Neither do I believe that medication is going to clear up any thought disorders, except by making people not care that their mind and life is in disarray. What you call spirit world I would call the realm of consciousness and what you would call the etheric body I would call the individual conscious mind. It follows then that what you define as spiritual healing corresponds to what I see as the healing of the mind bringing clarity where there once was confusion and peace where there once was conflict and joy when there once was despair, something only words can do, something entirely perceived in the mind, and something that all of the medication in the world cannot ever provide for even one person.

I'm glad that you have found a better way through spirituality, but do mot be misled into thinking that there is something mystical or supernatural about things entirely rooted and perceived in the natural mind. If you do you risk becoming worse off than you were before, even if you feel better.

I can only tell you the sum of my experience, which is I could control my chakras and channel energy through them to heal myself. But that was after the first couple of years of having healing in a spiritualist healing service. I could often feel the healing being given to me by spiritualist healers, and I felt it as heat and I could often feel the effects for a couple of days afterward. At that time I was not mentally strong enough to heal my self and I did not know enough about the chakras. But I learned about them and went to healing classes at the spiritualist association in London, and I gradually found I could channel the energy for myself.
I guess you will have to seek other explanations, like I am deluded and it was all imaginary. But I can tell you the chakras are real.

I am willing to consider the possibility. And I have seen you demonstrate a very rational intelligence when denouncing Islam so I would not be so quick to dismiss your perceptions as delusional or imaginary. I would more likely see it as either a misidentification of something that has a basis in reality or even that it might be something real that I never learned about before. If so my question to myself is how is it possible that I have made it through life just fine without chakras or heat healing of etheric bodies in a spiritual world filled with incorporeal beings that speak through mediums.

I have often felt heat in the palms of my hands but I never assumed that body heat was evidence of some mysterious healing ability. That would be very exciting in a specious sort of way but also very irrational.

You say that you were healed and have learned to heal yourself through chakras.

If so, what was wrong with you and what was healed? Was it physical healing? was it some ambiguous sense of well being that only lasted for a little while after church? Did you receive answers to the questions in your mind?

In my youth I suffered deep depressions and this ultimately led to schizophrenia and brain chemistry abnormalities. It is my view that the extreme emotional disturbance I suffered not only effected my brain chemistry, but also caused my etheric body to weaken and become loose, so that my chakras were miss aligned and hence the feelings of fire flowing through my chakras.
The spiritual healing gradually cured me of the damage to the psychic system, and I was eventually stable enough to stop the medication. I had to do a lot of work to get control of my mind and I used to do mental arithmetic. This eventually led to studying electronics and getting a job.
The spiritual healing did not cure me of the predisposition to schizophrenic experiences it only healed the damage that my emotional disturbances had done to the etheric body. That stopped the disturbing feelings and I do not feel those any more.

 

[Dajjal]

Most people are protected from psychic energy by an aura that surrounds them like a shell. and they would not know they have an etheric body or chakras in normal health, But in a person who is mentally disturbed the defences are lowered and they can become a victim of negative psychic energy. I learned all this slowly and painfully by trial and error, and by realizing I was not just mad or deluded in some of my psychic perceptions.
Like when I could feel atmosphere in old church buildings. This eventually led me to learn how to positively charge myself up, and overcome the negative experiences.

 

[Dajjal]

If so my question to myself is how is it possible that I have made it through life just fine without chakras or heat healing of etheric bodies in a spiritual world filled with incorporeal beings that speak through mediums.

Lots of people only go to mediums after they loose a loved one, or like me after they have not found help in conventional medicine, or psychiatry. But then they may find there is something in it. Most people go through life without finding out about psychic matters.

 

[hobelim]

I do not doubt that you 'felt' fire or had 'feelings' of cobwebs floating over your skin just like I know that the girl I knew actually saw garfield cats stuck on the inside of car windows driving all over town. I saw them too. The problem is in your conclusion about those 'feelings' which were not fire or cobwebs just like her irrational conclusion that what she saw was evidence that the mafia was going to kill her cat.

I'm sure that no one knows better than you how sick your mind was at the time. I suggest that you reevaluate the conclusions made in such a disintegrated, confused, and impaired state of consciousness. That you were able to 'control' your chakras by willpower to me just means that you were able to control your hallucinations by willpower. If you went to some other church during that time you might have just as easily come to the conclusion that you were able to control your demons by prayer or by eating Jesus crackers..

Having feelings of fire or floating cobwebs on your skin that were not fire or cobwebs and identifying them as chakras because you saw a picture in a book is really not evidence of any alternate reality with invisible spirits, etheric bodies, and multiple incarnations except in your own mind. .

Experts would agree with you. Most Psychiatrists and psychologists would agree with you. In fact I had to fight against their judgments to free myself from heavy medication. It is the sum of my experience that there really is a spirit world, and spiritual healing can restore damage to the etheric body.
In the same town you can go to a psychiatric clinic and be treated as insane and deluded, and a few streets away you can go to a spiritualist church and get real help from people that have true knowledge of the psychic.

Please don't get me wrong. I do not agree with the use of chemical straightjackets except under extreme circumstances. Neither do I believe that medication is going to clear up any thought disorders, except by making people not care that their mind and life is in disarray. What you call spirit world I would call the realm of consciousness and what you would call the etheric body I would call the individual conscious mind. It follows then that what you define as spiritual healing corresponds to what I see as the healing of the mind bringing clarity where there once was confusion and peace where there once was conflict and joy when there once was despair, something only words can do, something entirely perceived in the mind, and something that all of the medication in the world cannot ever provide for even one person.

I'm glad that you have found a better way through spirituality, but do mot be misled into thinking that there is something mystical or supernatural about things entirely rooted and perceived in the natural mind. If you do you risk becoming worse off than you were before, even if you feel better.

I can only tell you the sum of my experience, which is I could control my chakras and channel energy through them to heal myself. But that was after the first couple of years of having healing in a spiritualist healing service. I could often feel the healing being given to me by spiritualist healers, and I felt it as heat and I could often feel the effects for a couple of days afterward. At that time I was not mentally strong enough to heal my self and I did not know enough about the chakras. But I learned about them and went to healing classes at the spiritualist association in London, and I gradually found I could channel the energy for myself.
I guess you will have to seek other explanations, like I am deluded and it was all imaginary. But I can tell you the chakras are real.

I am willing to consider the possibility. And I have seen you demonstrate a very rational intelligence when denouncing Islam so I would not be so quick to dismiss your perceptions as delusional or imaginary. I would more likely see it as either a misidentification of something that has a basis in reality or even that it might be something real that I never learned about before. If so my question to myself is how is it possible that I have made it through life just fine without chakras or heat healing of etheric bodies in a spiritual world filled with incorporeal beings that speak through mediums.

I have often felt heat in the palms of my hands but I never assumed that body heat was evidence of some mysterious healing ability. That would be very exciting in a specious sort of way but also very irrational.

You say that you were healed and have learned to heal yourself through chakras.

If so, what was wrong with you and what was healed? Was it physical healing? was it some ambiguous sense of well being that only lasted for a little while after church? Did you receive answers to the questions in your mind?

In my youth I suffered deep depressions and this ultimately led to schizophrenia and brain chemistry abnormalities. It is my view that the extreme emotional disturbance I suffered not only effected my brain chemistry, but also caused my etheric body to weaken and become loose, so that my chakras were miss aligned and hence the feelings of fire flowing through my chakras.
The spiritual healing gradually cured me of the damage to the psychic system, and I was eventually stable enough to stop the medication. I had to do a lot of work to get control of my mind and I used to do mental arithmetic. This eventually led to studying electronics and getting a job.
The spiritual healing did not cure me of the predisposition to schizophrenic experiences it only healed the damage that my emotional disturbances had done to the etheric body. That stopped the disturbing feelings and I do not feel those any more.

I share your view that the extreme emotional disturbances that you experienced negatively affected your brain chemistry and not the other way around.

I'm glad that you have found some relief for your condition and no longer have disturbing feelings and do not need medication. What I gather is that the work you have done to control your mind is what has brought healing to your etheric body while noticing that your use of the word mind and etheric body seem to be interchangeable.

Personally I would hold suspect any perceptions and conclusions made during the time when you were not so well adjusted and were having the schizophrenic experiences of an unhealthy mind. Feelings are so vague and easily misunderstood by the person experiencing them. The very same thing that tastes delicious when you are healthy can taste terrible when you are sick, and what you feel strongly about one day can inspire the exact opposite feeling the next.

That being said, you have demonstrated courage and dedication to have come so far. You have escaped from the pit, don't get stuck in a trap.

 

[Dajjal]

while noticing that your use of the word mind and etheric body seem to be interchangeable.

In my study of theosophical manuals I learned the following.
The etheric body is not really a body, it is a shell that bridges the gap between the physical body and the astral body. The astral body is the next body up in the chain and after that comes the mental body. Higher than that is the soul body. Consciousness originates in the soul body, which is a formless bubble of energy that seals our soul off from the God mind. The soul body is infinitely expandable and contains the memories of all past incarnations. We cannot normally remember past lives while incarnate because the brain only remembers events from birth. But one day when we have reached a state of grace and completed our cycle of incarnations, we will remember all past lives in perfect detail.

 

[hobelim]

while noticing that your use of the word mind and etheric body seem to be interchangeable.

In my study of theosophical manuals I learned the following.
The etheric body is not really a body, it is a shell that bridges the gap between the physical body and the astral body. The astral body is the next body up in the chain and after that comes the mental body. Higher than that is the soul body. Consciousness originates in the soul body, which is a formless bubble of energy that seals our soul off from the God mind. The soul body is infinitely expandable and contains the memories of all past incarnations. We cannot normally remember past lives while incarnate because the brain only remembers events from birth. But one day when we have reached a state of grace and completed our cycle of incarnations, we will remember all past lives in perfect detail.

sounds like a nice story, strange, but nice. I prefer science fiction.

An unrestrained imagination is just as debilitating as any thought disorder. Thats what I meant by saying that you were at risk of becoming worse off than you were before, even if you feel better. At least when you were under the care of psychiatrists you knew that you had a problem.

And I would wager that most people would prefer to forget most details of many past lives and incarnations if they had them.



I do believe in the ascendant nature of consciousness and that there are different realms of intelligent thought that separate people from God and one another but I also see that veil of separation is woven by the infinite preposterous and unsubstantiated assertions only possible in the lower realm of unrestrained imaginations who settle for what they feel is true instead of what has been proven to be the truth...

 

[Dajjal]

what has been proven to be the truth...

So what has been proven to be the truth? I have been looking for the truth all my life, and I am 70 next year.
In my understanding what I have learned about higher bodies probably is the truth, but I do not know this for a certainty. If it can be proved to me I am wrong, I will abandon such ideas in a minute.
If the truth is we are just animals that live and die without meaning, I will not find that too hard to face, because my life has been no picnic.

 

[hobelim]

what has been proven to be the truth...

So what has been proven to be the truth? I have been looking for the truth all my life, and I am 70 next year.
In my understanding what I have learned about higher bodies probably is the truth, but I do not know this for a certainty. If it can be proved to me I am wrong, I will abandon such ideas in a minute.
If the truth is we are just animals that live and die without meaning, I will not find that too hard to face, because my life has been no picnic.

Why isn't the fact that you don't know for a certainty whether what you have learned about higher bodies is the truth enough to prevent you from professing it to be the truth to other people or accepting it as the truth yourself?

You really need to stand guard over the purity of your mind and learn to maintain a more discriminating intellectual diet.

What if it isn't true, then what? Something can still be learned. If you were wrong it would not automatically mean that there is no meaning to life. I'm sure that you have already found meaning and purpose in the life cycle of all creatures great and small. Why would your life have no meaning if you believed for a time in auras and chakras and etheric bodies only to find out that all those things only veiled your ability to perceive the actual truth whatever it may be? Wouldn't learning that be a necessary step for you to receive it?

A person can sit in a candle lit room burning incense and chanting mantras till kingdom come and would not learn as much as the person who actively participates in the fullness of life will learn in one day.

Stop looking for the truth and start living as a truthful person and you will find peace even if you never learn all of the truth about whether other spheres of intelligences exist or not while still living here on earth.

Does a person really have to know everything or maintain unsubstantiated beliefs to be happy?

Don't get stuck in a corner. Be open. Fill your life and life will teach you all of the truths that you need to know.

 

[Dajjal]

I still want to know what is true, but that is not easy in a world of opportunist liars. Maybe many of the teachers I have listened to were lying. For example the medium Ursula Roberts, who's trance lectures I often attended, could have been faking it. Since I got much of my information from her, and other famous mediums like, Grace Cook (founder of white eagle lodge) or Ivy Northage. Then there are the likes of Madam Blavatsky and Annie Besant and all the other theosophists I have studied. They could have been making it all up and I cannot confirm it for myself because I am not psychic enough. But I have posted some of the evidence I have received on this thread. Like I had a message from a brother I did not know I had that died as a baby. And my own personal experience of being told by a voice that I would win the lottery on the only occasion I did win it. Or like the fact I used to be able to feel the atmosphere in old churches.
Over all I think I am probably right, but I cannot really know until I die, just like everyone else.

 

[hobelim]

I still want to know what is true, but that is not easy in a world of opportunist liars. Maybe many of the teachers I have listened to were lying. For example the medium Ursula Roberts, who's trance lectures I often attended, could have been faking it. Since I got much of my information from her, and other famous mediums like, Grace Cook (founder of white eagle lodge) or Ivy Northage. Then there are the likes of Madam Blavatsky and Annie Besant and all the other theosophists I have studied. They could have been making it all up and I cannot confirm it for myself because I am not psychic enough. But I have posted some of the evidence I have received on this thread. Like I had a message from a brother I did not know I had that died as a baby. And my own personal experience of being told by a voice that I would win the lottery on the only occasion I did win it. Or like the fact I used to be able to feel the atmosphere in old churches.
Over all I think I am probably right, but I cannot really know until I die, just like everyone else.

If you want to know the truth then you must first endeavor to become a creature capable of discerning the difference between true and false, right and wrong and good and evil. To do that you must first purify your mind and become refined. You studied mathematics. If any variable in an equation is inaccurate then the answer produced by that equation will always be false. In the same way if any belief, opinion or assumption held in your mind is false then every conclusion produced by those variables will always be false and consequently your perceptions will be perverted by whatever it is in your mind that is not true.

I do not think that all spiritualists are opportunistic liars although many obviously are. I think some have just misidentified what is occurring in their mind just like you did during your bout with mental illness. In a trance state that mediums enter like the trance state induced in past life regression therapy the person is brought to a highly suggestive altered state of consciousness linked to part of your brain where dreams occur. Add to that a predilection to fantasy and an unrestrained imagination and people could come to believe almost anything perceived or said in that state however irrational and unlikely.

It is quite reasonable to assume that whatever a person says or sees or experiences in that state of consciousness is not something to bet the farm on.

What can you or anyone do about anything when their minds have been filled with volumes of information since birth from all sorts of people and sources including their own imagination, some things true, some things false, except to take the time and go through the trouble of cleaning house?

If you go to the end of solid ground in your mind and throw a great net into the sea where all those thoughts, true and false, swim around freely like fish and drag it to shore you can there, on solid ground, sort through what you pull out of the net throwing away the worthless fish, thoughts, beliefs, assumptions and keeping the good fish, only what you know is true. When you are done your mind will function like a brand new computer that has been swept clean of all viruses and unwanted programs that could impair its function and then when you look, wherever you look, you will know the truth.

 

[Tuatara]

As an atheist we should not concern ourselves with what people do with their religion unless it directly impacts us in a negative way. I may gasp inside, that people in this day and age still believe in a supernatural being but I don't need to call them stupid or any other offending name. But once they start using derogatory and negative terms against me or atheism I will challenge them and their views at every step.