Religion in politics/schools

[Dis]

Sorry, dude, but you're just as big of a fruitcake as those you're railing out against...

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Well Dis thats my point.......Why would a TRUE CHRISTIAN spend money to fight a legal battel while there are HOMELESS and STARVING people in society. So yes I consider them "Christians"

So you think Christians should be responsible for every homeless or starving person in the world? When did you become God, and get to decide how and what money should be spent on, and what should be displayed where? How do I sign up for that job? I'm DAMN good at telling people what to do, and I rock at spending money.

Dis the point is that if you put the display of the TEN COMMANDMENTS ahead of the SUFFERING of your fellow man then what does that say abouy YOU? What priority do you think CHRIST would have?

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Tell me Dis is having religion in your HEART more important than having it on display?

 

[Ringel05]

Well Dis thats my point.......Why would a TRUE CHRISTIAN spend money to fight a legal battel while there are HOMELESS and STARVING people in society. So yes I consider them "Christians"

So you think Christians should be responsible for every homeless or starving person in the world? When did you become God, and get to decide how and what money should be spent on, and what should be displayed where? How do I sign up for that job? I'm DAMN good at telling people what to do, and I rock at spending money.

Dis the point is that if you put the display of the TEN COMMANDMENTS ahead of the SUFFERING of your fellow man then what does that say abouy YOU? What priority do you think CHRIST would have?

OK, so we were right in the first place, you were looking for a fight.
(DiamonDave, I take it back).
Buh-by

 

[del]

Well Dis thats my point.......Why would a TRUE CHRISTIAN spend money to fight a legal battel while there are HOMELESS and STARVING people in society. So yes I consider them "Christians"

So you think Christians should be responsible for every homeless or starving person in the world? When did you become God, and get to decide how and what money should be spent on, and what should be displayed where? How do I sign up for that job? I'm DAMN good at telling people what to do, and I rock at spending money.

Dis the point is that if you put the display of the TEN COMMANDMENTS ahead of the SUFFERING of your fellow man then what does that say abouy YOU? What priority do you think CHRIST would have?

 

[DiamondDave]

[
No.. it does not imply that the government if forcing you to worship in the religion of Christianity... which is what the separation of church and state is all about

but nice try

That's not what it's about. it's about separating church and state. I mean, it's what the language means. You don't do that by posting a single religion's value system on government property or by having religious decorations of one faith in the public square.

Sorry, but if you have only one religion represented in such displays, it's an establishment of that religion. So said the supreme court, and that's one I agree with them on.

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

Try and educate yourself about the separation of church and state... "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,"... a Christmas display or a Hanukkah display is not establishing some government mandated religion.. .wishing a community a happy easter without mentioning Rama Navami is not establishing Christianity over Hinduism, nor is it some masked promotion to have a government stance of Christianity over Hinduism

Just because you have 1 thing displayed does not mean you must display something from every religion or every religious code.... now if you have a community that is 98% Shinto and the government puts up a display of a Shinto shrine for whatever holiday, fine.. but that does not mean that you have to pay reference to every religion or religious holiday for that community... hell, the government pays respects to the made up holiday of Kwanza, and while I do not celebrate that holiday in the slightest, I am not offended or outraged because they do, nor do I insist they pay homage to the Norse mythology in some retaliation because it is 'only fair'

 

[Dis]

Well Dis thats my point.......Why would a TRUE CHRISTIAN spend money to fight a legal battel while there are HOMELESS and STARVING people in society. So yes I consider them "Christians"

So you think Christians should be responsible for every homeless or starving person in the world? When did you become God, and get to decide how and what money should be spent on, and what should be displayed where? How do I sign up for that job? I'm DAMN good at telling people what to do, and I rock at spending money.

Dis the point is that if you put the display of the TEN COMMANDMENTS ahead of the SUFFERING of your fellow man then what does that say abouy YOU? What priority do you think CHRIST would have?

I don't presume to know what priority Christ would have, since I don't believe in God. Supposedly, your afterlife is more important than your current life here. So, Christs priority would be your salvation after the termination of your existence here. Whether you die by starvation or not is immaterial. The only thing that matters is whether you die with the grace of God. (Supposedly - that's my understanding)

 

[Cold Fusion38]

So you think Christians should be responsible for every homeless or starving person in the world? When did you become God, and get to decide how and what money should be spent on, and what should be displayed where? How do I sign up for that job? I'm DAMN good at telling people what to do, and I rock at spending money.

Dis the point is that if you put the display of the TEN COMMANDMENTS ahead of the SUFFERING of your fellow man then what does that say abouy YOU? What priority do you think CHRIST would have?

OK, so we were right in the first place, you were looking for a fight.
(DiamonDave, I take it back).
Buh-by

Why is that fighting words just taking YOUR advise and applying it to YOU! I want to know WHAT is more important to YOU.......Putting up MONUMENTS or caring for your fellow man. Which do you think CHRIST would do?

 

[DiamondDave]

Well Dis thats my point.......Why would a TRUE CHRISTIAN spend money to fight a legal battel while there are HOMELESS and STARVING people in society. So yes I consider them "Christians"

So you think Christians should be responsible for every homeless or starving person in the world? When did you become God, and get to decide how and what money should be spent on, and what should be displayed where? How do I sign up for that job? I'm DAMN good at telling people what to do, and I rock at spending money.

Dis the point is that if you put the display of the TEN COMMANDMENTS ahead of the SUFFERING of your fellow man then what does that say abouy YOU? What priority do you think CHRIST would have?

hmmm... #1 we have personal freedom to donate to the legal fight to keep a statue, or to donate to a soup kitchen, or to donate to have lacy underwear given to homeless people if you so choose... #2 how do you know that those who donated to this cause did not also donate to charities helping others?... #3 Is it your job or government's job to hold someone to some interpretation of their belief system?

 

[Gudrid]

Try and educate yourself about the separation of church and state...

I have educated myself on it, thanks bunches. Which is why I stated accurately what the Supreme Court had said on the matter, and that I agreed with them.

"make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,"... a Christmas display or a Hanukkah display is not establishing some government mandated religion.. .wishing a community a happy easter without mentioning Rama Navami is not establishing Christianity over Hinduism, nor is it some masked promotion to have a government stance of Christianity over Hinduism

What does this nonsense have to with anything I said?

Just because you have 1 thing displayed does not mean you must display something from every religion or every religious code....

Nope, not every. Just multiple, establishing the display as a cultural rather than religious display. Dem's da rules, bud. Sorry you don't like it.

 

[Dis]

Dis the point is that if you put the display of the TEN COMMANDMENTS ahead of the SUFFERING of your fellow man then what does that say abouy YOU? What priority do you think CHRIST would have?

OK, so we were right in the first place, you were looking for a fight.
(DiamonDave, I take it back).
Buh-by

Why is that fighting words just taking YOUR advise and applying it to YOU! I want to know WHAT is more important to YOU.......Putting up MONUMENTS or caring for your fellow man. Which do you think CHRIST would do?

Even though that wasn't to me (unless you don't know how to keep track of who you're responding to).. I do MORE than my fair share for my "fellow man". Uncle Sam makes sure of that when he takes a good 30% of my paycheck every week. I also have stuff that I personally do which makes a very big difference in someones life every year. I have nothing to feel guilty about. But, the more someone *takes* from me the less I'm willing to give.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

There is nothing wrong with a school teaching about religion or a specific sect thereof. As long as the actions don't violate the respective state constitution(s) or the federal Constitution, I don't see what the problem is. The Constitution does not prevent the expression of religion.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

The first amendment is very clear. So is the legislative intent behind it. If you don't want your kids exposed to any talk of religion or anything else you find objectionable, don't send them to the government donut factories to begin with. After all, the responsibility to educate the children is on the parents not the state or federal government.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Well Dis I hope I didn't rile you too much as I stated before that wasn't really my point. I am off for now but wish you all a good day.

 

[Dis]

Well Dis I hope I didn't rile you too much as I stated before that wasn't really my point. I am off for now but wish you all a good day.

I'll take that to mean you just got your ass spanked by a girl, since you ignored my last *two* posts, one of which included "what would Christ do?".

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

I would like for some of you religious people to explain to me WHY you can't teach your kids about YOUR religion at home/church. Why is it you feel the need to PREACH to people who don't want to be a part of your religion(if I want to I will just look for the closest building with a cross). Why do you think YOUR religion should be in the PUBLIC square?

No such thing as freedom against religious expression. Do you have kids? If so, do you ship them off to the government factory every day school is in session, or do you exercise personal responsibility and accountability, by teaching them yourself?

 

[Ringel05]

Dis the point is that if you put the display of the TEN COMMANDMENTS ahead of the SUFFERING of your fellow man then what does that say abouy YOU? What priority do you think CHRIST would have?

OK, so we were right in the first place, you were looking for a fight.
(DiamonDave, I take it back).
Buh-by

Why is that fighting words just taking YOUR advise and applying it to YOU! I want to know WHAT is more important to YOU.......Putting up MONUMENTS or caring for your fellow man. Which do you think CHRIST would do?

Either/or questions/arguments are not discussions. They are simply proof of lack of understanding of all aspects of an issue and indicative of a desire to confront.

 

[goldcatt]

I would like for some of you religious people to explain to me WHY you can't teach your kids about YOUR religion at home/church. Why is it you feel the need to PREACH to people who don't want to be a part of your religion(if I want to I will just look for the closest building with a cross). Why do you think YOUR religion should be in the PUBLIC square?

No such thing as freedom against religious expression. Do you have kids? If so, do you ship them off to the government factory every day school is in session, or do you exercise personal responsibility and accountability, by teaching them yourself?

Most people aren't able to homeschool effectively, and most also cannot afford (or do not have available, if you live in a rural area) the private school of their choice. I hope I'm reading this wrong, but sending kids to public schools isn't a dereliction of personal responsibility as a parent. My kids start tomorrow.

 

[DiamondDave]

Try and educate yourself about the separation of church and state...

I have educated myself on it, thanks bunches. Which is why I stated accurately what the Supreme Court had said on the matter, and that I agreed with them.

"make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,"... a Christmas display or a Hanukkah display is not establishing some government mandated religion.. .wishing a community a happy easter without mentioning Rama Navami is not establishing Christianity over Hinduism, nor is it some masked promotion to have a government stance of Christianity over Hinduism

What does this nonsense have to with anything I said?

Just because you have 1 thing displayed does not mean you must display something from every religion or every religious code....

Nope, not every. Just multiple, establishing the display as a cultural rather than religious display. Dem's da rules, bud. Sorry you don't like it.

Wrong... simply and utterly wrong...

A public display does not HAVE to include multiple religions or religious views... it does happen in many cases, but it is not required that a display on park land of Easter must be accompanied by a display for Passover...

And as stated, it is also dependent on the makeup of the community.. if you have a community that does not contain jews or mormons or whatever, but does contain Buddhists , it does not mean that when paying homage to a Buddhist holiday that is held dear by the vast majority of a community, that you have to have a christian display for the 0.5% of Christians in that community...

"In a 5-to-4 decision, the Court held that the crèche inside the courthouse unmistakably endorsed Christianity in violation of the Establishment Clause. By prominently displaying the words "Glory to God for the birth of Jesus Christ," the county sent a clear message that it supported and promoted Christian orthodoxy. The Court also held, however, that not all religious celebrations on government property violated the Establishment Clause. Six of the justices concluded that the display involving the menorah was constitutionally legitimate given its "particular physical setting.""

Even the supreme court is wishy washy in what it allows and what it does not in terms of this.. nativity, bad.. menorah, ok... and a singular display does not inherently mean "preferentialist"

Oh.. and when it comes down to the decision about the posting of the 10 commandments in school.. it was specifically referenced to the "forced" or required posting of the 10 commandments in schools, not that a school should not have it displayed

 

[Gudrid]

A public display does not HAVE to include multiple religions or religious views... it does happen in many cases, but it is not required that a display on park land of Easter must be accompanied by a display for Passover...

Sorry, I see the miscue here, and it's my fault for not being more clear in my communication. The "multiple" part was meant to refer to courthouse displays of the 10 commandments. And yes, it also applies to education. For things like easter, hanukah, christmas, etc., they've classified certain decorations as "secular" versus "religious" decorations. That one's a bit random to me, but whatever. So you can have christmas trees or the easter bunny, but no nativity scene or crucification. Theoretically. People have them anyway in smaller towns. But they're not supposed to.

 

[goldcatt]

It's all a bit random. That's a problem for the people trying to make sure they're complying with a soft standard, but it's also good in the sense that communities can usually tailor their spaces to their own tastes and communities. Yes, there are problems, but I personally prefer a balancing act to a bright line allowing everything or banning everything. There are two sides to very story, after all.