Religion Cannot StandThe Scrutiny Of A Good Education

[emilynghiem]

Dear Cammmpbell: Just because people don't affiliate with one particular religion
doesn't mean the message or the religion is less relevant.

You can study, use and apply the knowledge in math/science WITHOUT being
a mathematician or scientist officially. These things can be used and applied broadly.
Same with the truth and wisdom in the various world religions.

The same way the laws of gravity and physics are universal and can be used by anyone,
the process of forgiveness and natural healing that Christians teach are also universal.

Modern education systems should require a study of world religions, geology and anthropology. Education is something that ancient myths cannot handle. It's the reason modern society is beginning to withdraw from that line of thinking:

Statistics on Religion in America Report -- Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life

This survey finds that the number of people who say they are unaffiliated with any particular faith today (16.1%) is more than double the number who say they were not affiliated with any particular religion as children. Among Americans ages 18-29, one-in-four say they are not currently affiliated with any particular religion.

 

[emilynghiem]

Matthew 19
21 "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven."

Matthew 5
48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
....
I had most of the new testament memorized and could quote it chapter and verse 55 years ago when I was in my early 20's. I find that most folks settle in on something they believe which in most cases has absolutely nothing to do with what's in the bible. So thrill me some more. I've heard it all.

1. To be perfect means to be mature or whole. The point of the church body is to be unified in Christ so that we are all one big harmonious family living in peace or the Kingdom of God.
Since none of us can be individually perfect, we depend on each other to catch and correct our faults and weaknesses; so COLLECTIVELY yes we can be complete or whole. Like an orchestra where all the parts interweave and balance each other in "perfect" composition.

2. As for hearing it all, do you believe the secular Gentiles who are under natural laws are also included in salvation in Christ Jesus as the second fold of the one flock he governs equally? Do you believe in Restorative Justice as the secular equivalent of believing in Christ Jesus? So that even gentiles, including atheists and nontheists, can be neighbors in Christ in the spirit of Restorative Justice and Truth, even if this fold does not express beliefs using scriptural or biblical laws, but may use civil, secular or scientific laws from the natural realm.

Do you believe in universal salvation by including all tribes as unifying in Christ Jesus or the spirit of Truth and Justice? Do you believe in the power of forgiveness to receive healing in all relationships, so collectively this becomes the Holy Spirit unifying the church body or all of humanity in spiritual peace, balance and harmony? Do you believe this is what the Bible means in order to represent universal truth? In order for saving grace to be for all humanity?

 

[Cammmpbell]

Dear Cammmpbell: Just because people don't affiliate with one particular religion
doesn't mean the message or the religion is less relevant.

You can study, use and apply the knowledge in math/science WITHOUT being
a mathematician or scientist officially. These things can be used and applied broadly.
Same with the truth and wisdom in the various world religions.

The same way the laws of gravity and physics are universal and can be used by anyone,
the process of forgiveness and natural healing that Christians teach are also universal.

Modern education systems should require a study of world religions, geology and anthropology. Education is something that ancient myths cannot handle. It's the reason modern society is beginning to withdraw from that line of thinking:

Statistics on Religion in America Report -- Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life

This survey finds that the number of people who say they are unaffiliated with any particular faith today (16.1%) is more than double the number who say they were not affiliated with any particular religion as children. Among Americans ages 18-29, one-in-four say they are not currently affiliated with any particular religion.

I'll simplify the whole deal. I lived the church life till I was over 60 years old. I tithed my net pay, taught Sunday school and vacation bible school, coached and reffed the RA boys, mowed and raked old folk's yards, was a member of the Brotherhood...basically was in the church about three days a week. Know what? I never believed it.....not for a minute. This man put my feelings into words much better than I ever could have:

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. It is enough for me to contemplate the mystery of conscious life perpetuating itself through all eternity, to reflect upon the marvelous structure of the universe which we can dimly perceive, and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the intelligence manifested in nature." ~Dr. Albert Einstein~

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

Modern education systems should require a study of world religions, geology and anthropology. Education is something that ancient myths cannot handle. It's the reason modern society is beginning to withdraw from that line of thinking:

Statistics on Religion in America Report -- Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life

This survey finds that the number of people who say they are unaffiliated with any particular faith today (16.1%) is more than double the number who say they were not affiliated with any particular religion as children. Among Americans ages 18-29, one-in-four say they are not currently affiliated with any particular religion.

Nonsense. Much of modern "education" is the stuff of mythology.

Prukrock's Lair: Another Atheist's Unexamined Thought Processes: A Close Encounter of the Raw Kind

Prukrock's Lair: Abiogenesis: The Unholy Grail of Atheism

Prufrock's Cave: A Mountain of Nothin' out of Somethin' or Another

Prufrock's Cave: Is Atheist-Think "Hardwired" for Irrationality and Statism?

Prukrock's Lair: Objectivism: The Uninspired Religion of "Reason"

I'll see how quickly you tune away from this:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsbtUKJs_wY]{WMSCOG} The Second Coming Christ and the Judge - YouTube[/ame]

How so? Your comment's a bit hazy. It has the feel of an accusation, but I have no idea of what sort.

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

Dear Cammmpbell: Just because people don't affiliate with one particular religion
doesn't mean the message or the religion is less relevant.

You can study, use and apply the knowledge in math/science WITHOUT being
a mathematician or scientist officially. These things can be used and applied broadly.
Same with the truth and wisdom in the various world religions.

The same way the laws of gravity and physics are universal and can be used by anyone,
the process of forgiveness and natural healing that Christians teach are also universal.

Modern education systems should require a study of world religions, geology and anthropology. Education is something that ancient myths cannot handle. It's the reason modern society is beginning to withdraw from that line of thinking:

Statistics on Religion in America Report -- Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life

This survey finds that the number of people who say they are unaffiliated with any particular faith today (16.1%) is more than double the number who say they were not affiliated with any particular religion as children. Among Americans ages 18-29, one-in-four say they are not currently affiliated with any particular religion.

I'll simplify the whole deal. I lived the church life till I was over 60 years old. I tithed my net pay, taught Sunday school and vacation bible school, coached and reffed the RA boys, mowed and raked old folk's yards, was a member of the Brotherhood...basically was in the church about three days a week. Know what? I never believed it.....not for a minute. This man put my feelings into words much better than I ever could have:

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. It is enough for me to contemplate the mystery of conscious life perpetuating itself through all eternity, to reflect upon the marvelous structure of the universe which we can dimly perceive, and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the intelligence manifested in nature." ~Dr. Albert Einstein~

Einstein aside, do you imagine the constructs of justice, liberty and free will? And if not, why not? And if not based on divine authority, than what authority? By what thesis do we recognize these things and attempt to realize them . . . if at all?

 

[M.D. Rawlings]

All science is theory..........

Evolution is a FACT

God is a theory

Yeah, well, evolution cannot and does account for origin, and the more we learn the less convincing Abiogenesis becomes--except for the ignorant/confused and the true-believing scientists who just can't let it go.

Evolution or a process akin to it is an apparent fact assuming the ontology of the materialistic naturalist is correct. If it's not, all bets are off.

I believe them both to be the myths . . . of "modern education."

 

[Cammmpbell]

Dear Cammmpbell: Just because people don't affiliate with one particular religion
doesn't mean the message or the religion is less relevant.

You can study, use and apply the knowledge in math/science WITHOUT being
a mathematician or scientist officially. These things can be used and applied broadly.
Same with the truth and wisdom in the various world religions.

The same way the laws of gravity and physics are universal and can be used by anyone,
the process of forgiveness and natural healing that Christians teach are also universal.

I'll simplify the whole deal. I lived the church life till I was over 60 years old. I tithed my net pay, taught Sunday school and vacation bible school, coached and reffed the RA boys, mowed and raked old folk's yards, was a member of the Brotherhood...basically was in the church about three days a week. Know what? I never believed it.....not for a minute. This man put my feelings into words much better than I ever could have:

"I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own--a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human fraility. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotism. It is enough for me to contemplate the mystery of conscious life perpetuating itself through all eternity, to reflect upon the marvelous structure of the universe which we can dimly perceive, and to try humbly to comprehend even an infinitesimal part of the intelligence manifested in nature." ~Dr. Albert Einstein~

Einstein aside, do you imagine the constructs of justice, liberty and free will? And if not, why not? And if not based on divine authority, than what authority? By what thesis do we recognize these things and attempt to realize them . . . if at all?

Justice, liberty, free will............who the fuck are you kidding. If I were a religious person I would hide my face from the public. What about the Crusades, the Inquisitions, the witch killings.......what about events like 9/11 and the following wars? What about the tens of millions of innocent women and children who have been murdered, raped, pillaged, starved to death and otherwise caught up in religious conflicts and that doesn't even mention the hundreds of millions who have fled their homes because of them. Justice, Liberty.................for whom?


There are forty-two death-penalty sins spelled out in the Old Testament. Only the uncivilized could have dreamed or conjured up this kind of shit. With a batch of possible acceptable judgements like this to work with kinda makes one wonder how many were tortured and crucified in the public square for it's entertainment value. Gathering firewood on the Sabbath my ass!!!

Murder - Gen. 9:6; Ex. 21:12-14,20,23; Lev. 24:17,21; Num. 35:16-34; Deut. 19.
Failing to circumcise - Gen. 17:14; Ex. 4:24,25.
Eating leavened bread during feast of unleavened bread - Ex.
2:15,19.
Smiting Parents- Ex. 21:15.
Kidnapping - Ex. 21:16; Deut. 24:7.
Cursing Parents - Ex. 21:17; Lev. 20:9.
Negligence with animals that kill - Ex. 21:28-32.
Witchcraft - Ex. 22:18.
Bestiality - Ex. 22:19; Lev. 18:23-29; 20:15,16.
Idolatry - Ex. 22:20.
Making holy anointing oil - Ex. 30:33.
Putting holy anointing oil on strangers - Ex. 30:33.
Making the holy perfume - Ex. 30:38.
Defiling the Sabbath - Ex. 31:14.
Working on the Sabbath - Ex. 35:2.
Eating the flesh of the peace offerings in
uncleanness - Lev. 7:20,21.
Eating the fat of sacrifices - Lev. 7:25.
Killing sacrifices other than at the door of the tabernacle - Lev. 17:1-9.
Eating blood - Lev. 17:10-14.
Incest - Lev. 18:6-29; 20:11-22.
Eating sacrifices at the wrong time - Lev. 19:5-8.
Consecration of children to idols - Lev. 20:1-5.
Spiritualism - Lev. 20:6,27.
Adultery - Lev. 20:10; Deut. 22:22-30.
Sodomy/Homosexuality - Lev. 20:13.
Relationship with a menstruous woman - Lev. 20:18.
Whoredom - Lev. 21:9; Deut. 22:21,22.
Sacrilege - Lev. 22:3.
Refusing to fast on day of atonement - Lev. 23:29.
Working on atonement - Lev. 23:30.
Blasphemy - Lev. 24:11-16.
Failure to keep the Passover - Num. 9:13.
Presumptuous - Num. 15:30,31.
Gathering firewood on the Sabbath - Num. 15:32,36.
Failure to purify self before worship - Num. 19:13,20.
False prophecy - Deut. 13:1-18; 18:20.
Leading men away from God - Deut. 13:6-18.
Stubbornness and rebelliousness - Deut. 21:18-23.
Gluttony - Deut. 21:20-23.
Drunkenness - Deut. 21:20-23.
Backbiting - Deut. 17:2-7.
False dreams and visions - Deut. 13:1-18.

 

[AVG-JOE]

You wouldn't know education if it bit you on the butt.

BTW The more I learn the more faithful I become. History, sciences, Languages, all denote that there is a God.

His hand is in everything. After all the Glory of God is intelligence and we are commanded to learn of all things.

You are so full of shit. have you sold your possessions and given the proceeds to the poor yet?

I am not commanded to. And if I was, I wouldnt have a problem with it. Not really sure why God would command me to sell my goods to give to myself, but I could do it quite easily.

I'll bet you $1.00 that you could find several people on this planet more in need than yourself.

Americans tend to forget... ALL you fuckers are 'rich' when compared to the rest of the planet, and you guys are gods, the way you live, when compared to your history.

 

[AVG-JOE]

All science is theory..........

Evolution is a FACT

God is a theory

Evolution is no more fact than Climate Change is man-made.

It's a possibility but not a certainty. Some of the most notable scientists believe man may have been deposited her by Space Aliens. God could have been one for all we know.

I think a far more likely scenario to be Wet Rock + Starshine + Time = Humanity

If Mother Earths Little Bastards have a Father, His name is Time.

If there is a God, His name is Luck, and He has Bad moods as well as Good.

 

[AVG-JOE]

And sometimes what's Good Luck for one life form may be Terrible Luck for another - ask any Dinosaur.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I am not commanded to. And if I was, I wouldnt have a problem with it. Not really sure why God would command me to sell my goods to give to myself, but I could do it quite easily.

You're one of those Christians who either can't or chooses not to read:

Matthew 19
21 "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven."

Matthew 5
48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

And I am not the rich man he was talking to at the time. Or do you think Christians are likewise supposed to start building Arks because God once commanded Noah to build one?

He also commanded Peter and the other Apostles to throw out their nets to catch fish. You think every Christian is commanded to do that?

What's funny about it is you actually think you are educated.

I have to call you on this one Avatar... the context of what Cammmpbell quoted is clearly a parable used for preaching to the masses and the context of what you quoted was clearly intended to be specific instructions to specific individuals at a specific time in history.

And common knowledge of Christianity shows a concern for the poor, at least on paper.

 

[AVG-JOE]

All science is theory..........

Evolution is a FACT

God is a theory

Yeah, well, evolution cannot and does account for origin, and the more we learn the less convincing Abiogenesis becomes--except for the ignorant/confused and the true-believing scientists who just can't let it go.

Evolution or a process akin to it is an apparent fact assuming the ontology of the materialistic naturalist is correct. If it's not, all bets are off.

I believe them both to be the myths . . . of "modern education."

That's bullshit! Modern chemists and biologists are making new discoveries into the chemical roots to the tree of life every day and they're very excited about their fields - just watch PBS for a month and you too will see!

 

[logical4u]

Modern education systems should require a study of world religions, geology and anthropology. Education is something that ancient myths cannot handle. It's the reason modern society is beginning to withdraw from that line of thinking:

Statistics on Religion in America Report -- Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life

This survey finds that the number of people who say they are unaffiliated with any particular faith today (16.1%) is more than double the number who say they were not affiliated with any particular religion as children. Among Americans ages 18-29, one-in-four say they are not currently affiliated with any particular religion.

Funny, when I ask "educated" people for a better way to live than Christianity, they are speechless. When I ask them where they live (it usually takes a few questions), they will admit they "choose" to live in Christian neighborhoods. Why do you think that is?

 

[PredFan]

This needs to be said again.

If you actually got a GOOD education, you wouldn't bother scrutinizing religion.

 

[logical4u]

All science is theory..........

All ancient, mythical god worship is horse shit. When youngsters attend an accredited university and take the right courses they immediately realize that. The old "I'm a gonna' rise up from the grave, join a ghost floating on a cloud, fly off to paradise and live forever" rendition is short lived. When the present generation dies off I'd say it's within 50 years of being dead. Then it will be looked upon like Thor, Athena, Zeus and other ancient mythological gods.

"God" seems to be sticking around. Religion is utter BS. Religion is for the weak minded in my opinion. I dont completely disregard the whole Creator idea, but I dont believe God. I mean come on? There were many Gods before that one. With pretty much the same 411 on him or her. It was like it was a bunch of Gods rolled into one. Whats the chance of 5 gods (and Im considering jesus as a god in this instance) being born on Dec. 5th? But I ramble..

If the gov't can break the basic beliefs of people (religion), they can replace that religion with "gov't". Religion, allows people to ensure that their beliefs are taught and protected for future generations. Slamming religions while not slamming the Lord is a devisive technique that is being used to seperate future generations from the Lord, and replace faith in the Lord, with some man declaring himself to be better than every other man....

I am very thankful that this country allows people to worship according to their choosing. We are also allowed to freely debate/discuss/argue to what system works best.

I have yet to find anyone that can provide evidence that Christian values do not make the best society.

 

[logical4u]

All ancient, mythical god worship is horse shit. When youngsters attend an accredited university and take the right courses they immediately realize that. The old "I'm a gonna' rise up from the grave, join a ghost floating on a cloud, fly off to paradise and live forever" rendition is short lived. When the present generation dies off I'd say it's within 50 years of being dead. Then it will be looked upon like Thor, Athena, Zeus and other ancient mythological gods.

"God" seems to be sticking around. Religion is utter BS. Religion is for the weak minded in my opinion. I dont completely disregard the whole Creator idea, but I dont believe God. I mean come on? There were many Gods before that one. With pretty much the same 411 on him or her. It was like it was a bunch of Gods rolled into one. Whats the chance of 5 gods (and Im considering jesus as a god in this instance) being born on Dec. 5th? But I ramble..

Yeah.....the Roman emperor Constantine saved the Christian belief about 350 AD. The faith had all but died on the vine. He picked pagan holiday's for the celebration of Christmas and Easter and where I live, here in Tennessee there are people back in the Appalacian hills who will kill you if you even suggest to them that Dec. 25th isn't the date of Jesus' birth.

Oh....Jesus is all three, the father the son and the holy fuckin' ghost. Or...as Oral Roberts, Liberty and Bob Jones universities teach..."The Trinity!"

Links/evidence?

 

[logical4u]

Modern education systems should require a study of world religions, geology and anthropology. Education is something that ancient myths cannot handle. It's the reason modern society is beginning to withdraw from that line of thinking:

Statistics on Religion in America Report -- Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life

This survey finds that the number of people who say they are unaffiliated with any particular faith today (16.1%) is more than double the number who say they were not affiliated with any particular religion as children. Among Americans ages 18-29, one-in-four say they are not currently affiliated with any particular religion.

You make a claim then post a study that has nothing to do with your claim. Is there a reason for that, or are you just so stupid you don't realize how stupid you are?

The reason religion is failing as we speak is that the younger people are studying in college and they know that nobody is going to rise up out of the grave, join a ghost floating on a cloud, fly off to paradise and live forever. Only the ignorant, brainwashed or mentally deficient could possibly believe that.

Before you continue to use this as your standard reply, you should know that most Christians do not believe they will be floating on a Cloud forever. But as one of the "supposed" educated, I am not surprised at your bigoted statements.

 

[Votto]

All science is theory..........

Evolution is a FACT

God is a theory

Evolution does not address our origins. Would you say that abiogenesis is a fact?

Also, if evolution is a fact, how has it been proven? It seems to me that it is still a theory.

 

[logical4u]

You are so full of shit. have you sold your possessions and given the proceeds to the poor yet?

I am not commanded to. And if I was, I wouldnt have a problem with it. Not really sure why God would command me to sell my goods to give to myself, but I could do it quite easily.

You're one of those Christians who either can't or chooses not to read:

Matthew 19
21 "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven."

Matthew 5
48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

Matthew 6
34 "Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."

Matthew 5
40" If anyone sues you to take away your coat, let him have your cloak also"

Matthew 5
44 "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"

Matthew 7
12 "Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets."

Didn't you JUST get done telling us that you didn't believe the Author of the Bible? Why do you use these quotes to manipulate Christians? Are you aware that the Bible warns of using the Bible to further your causes (not the Lord's)?

If you don't believe, why do you use the Bible to try to manipulate?

 

[logical4u]

You're one of those Christians who either can't or chooses not to read:

Matthew 19
21 "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven."

Matthew 5
48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

And I am not the rich man he was talking to at the time. Or do you think Christians are likewise supposed to start building Arks because God once commanded Noah to build one?

He also commanded Peter and the other Apostles to throw out their nets to catch fish. You think every Christian is commanded to do that?

What's funny about it is you actually think you are educated.

I had most of the new testament memorized and could quote it chapter and verse 55 years ago when I was in my early 20's. I find that most folks settle in on something they believe which in most cases has absolutely nothing to do with what's in the bible. So thrill me some more. I've heard it all.

Apparently, you comprehend, little!