Religion.... As An Excuse For Socialism?

[PoliticalChic]

1. Interesting,....if not ironic.....the folks who favor force and coercion in establishing their favored forms of government....
Communism, Nazism, Socialism, Liberalism, Progressivism, and Fascism.....
still try to put up a cogent argument that favors said governance.


And....although all six are based on atheism......they claim that religion, the Bible, offers their totalitarianism as most preferred!


2. This is the basis for totalitarianism:
"There is no God: This concept is an essential element of Marxism. As Lenin stated: "Atheism is a natural and inseparable portion of Marxism, of the theory and practice of Scientific Socialism." If God exists and is in supreme command of the universe, He possesses discretionary power, and His actions cannot always be calculated accurately in advance. The whole edifice of Marxism collapses."
The Schwarz Report | Essays

a. Yet....proponents of Communism, Nazism, Socialism, Liberalism, Progressivism, and Fascism.....all love to claim that the Bible can be boiled down to "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs "



We'll explore that view.....and destroy it.



3. Let me provide the Bible quotes that the sophists might point to to support the idea that socialism/communism is advanced by scripture.

a. Luke 3:11 “Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.”

b. 1 John 3:17 " But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?"

Communism? Liberalism? Socialism?



4. Poets have provided the hermeneutic key to putting those quotes in perspective:

a. Alexander Pope wrote “A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again.”

b. ....and the Bard, still deeper:
“The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.
An evil soul producing holy witness
Is like a villain with a smiling cheek,
A goodly apple rotten at the heart.
O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!”



And a deeper accounting will follow.

 

[Dot Com]

 

[deltex1]

The Bern is now a warm bucket of piss.

 

[Jantje_Smit]

And a deeper accounting will follow.

This might come as a surprise but Jesus was actually a socialist

Free healthcare for the poor, he chased the moneychangers out of the temple instead of giving them a bailout, no way the 1% could get into heaven....

 

[Dot Com]

And a deeper accounting will follow.

This might come as a surprise but Jesus was actually a socialist

Free healthcare for the poor, he chased the moneychangers out of the temple instead of giving them a bailout, no way the 1% could get into heaven....

^ that

 

[PoliticalChic]

And a deeper accounting will follow.

This might come as a surprise but Jesus was actually a socialist

Free healthcare for the poor, he chased the moneychangers out of the temple instead of giving them a bailout, no way the 1% could get into heaven....

As you will see in this thread.....nothing could be further from the truth.


You should take notes, and try to avoid further embarrassment.

 

[Jantje_Smit]

As you will see in this thread.....nothing could be further from the truth.


You should take notes, and try to avoid further embarrassment.

I can't wait, this should be good

 

[PoliticalChic]

As you will see in this thread.....nothing could be further from the truth.


You should take notes, and try to avoid further embarrassment.

I can't wait, this should be good

As always....not just good.....but accurate and true.

 

[PoliticalChic]

5. I don't want any to think I'm giving the Leftists short shrift.....

Here's a little more that they might offer: a certain powerful, if misguided individual is trotted out to support Leftism and condemn capitalism.....

...the Leftist can point to Socialism's Pope, Francis...

a. “The Son of God came into this world as a homeless person,” the Pope said. “The Son of God knew what it was to start life without a roof over his head.”

All too often this Pope has used terms that fall in line with Leftism.....


b. "Speaking to grassroots organizers in Bolivia Thursday, Pope Francis made headlines for using the phrase “the dung of the devil” in reference to today’s world economy.

News outlets were quick to run headlines such as “Unbridled capitalism is the ‘dung of the devil’, says Pope Francis,” and “Pope slams capitalism as ‘dung of the devil.’”



But here is what he said:
"And behind all this pain, death and destruction there is the stench of what Basil of Caesarea called “the dung of the devil”. An unfettered pursuit of money rules. The service of the common good is left behind. Once capital becomes an idol and guides people’s decisions, once greed for money presides over the entire socioeconomic system, it ruins society,..."
No, Pope Francis Didn’t Call Capitalism ‘The Dung Of The Devil’




Have I covered their side of the argument, the Leftists, the envious, and the easily led?

Great.

Now I'll proceed to correct their analysis...
...coming right up.

 

[Jantje_Smit]

Now I'll proceed to correct their analysis...
...coming right up.

The pope is a misguided commie but luckily we have you to set us straight....

 

[JoeB131]

And a deeper accounting will follow.

This might come as a surprise but Jesus was actually a socialist

Free healthcare for the poor, he chased the moneychangers out of the temple instead of giving them a bailout, no way the 1% could get into heaven....

 

[PoliticalChic]

Now I'll proceed to correct their analysis...
...coming right up.

The pope is a misguided commie but luckily we have you to set us straight....

Carefully consider the following:
Me...never wrong.

You......best equipped to sit in front of a thatched hut, poking a stick into the dirt.

 

[Jantje_Smit]

Carefully consider the following:
Me...never wrong.

You......best equipped to sit in front of a thatched hut, poking a stick into the dirt.

I considered it carefully.....

And I still prefer my cave above a thatched hut

 

[PoliticalChic]

6. So.....socialism endorsed in the Bible????

Not hardly.

An accurate understanding of the Bible requires the distinction between 'redistribution' and 'generosity.'

"Some people conclude from these verses that the Bible supports government-enforced wealth redistribution. But what these verses really show is that the Bible advocates generosity.

These are two very different concepts.
Generosity springs from free will....not force, coercion, or threats.


The motivation to give and share originates in compassion, as 1 John 3:17 indicates—but there is choice involved.

With socialism, it is the opposite.
Redistribution of wealth is always by force of government. The government simply uses its overwhelming power to take what it thinks is “fair” from the “givers.” Is God a Socialist?

Generosity is based on choice....on free will....the cornerstone of Judeo-Christian tradition.
Not so with any of these six: Socialism, Liberalism, Communism, et al



And this is the face of government coercion.....


Under the Bolsheviks, the dynasty with which Franklin Roosevelt felt comradeship, slaughter was so omnipresent that corpse-disposal actually became a problem.

There was resistance to the Lefts mandate of collectivism, especially in the Ukraine.
September 11, 1932, Stalin wrote to his assistant, 'We must take steps so we do not lose the Ukraine.' So, 1932-1933, all food supplies in the Ukraine were confiscated.


Those who tried to leave were shot, those who remained, starved to death. Men, women, children. They died tortuously slowly.
NKVD squads collected the dead. They received 200 grams of bread for every dead body they delivered; often they didn't wait until the victim was dead.


'Lazar Kaganovich (together with Vyacheslav Molotov) participated with the All-Ukrainian Party Conference of 1930 and were given the task of implementation of the collectivization policy that caused a catastrophic 1932–33 famine known as the Holodomor. He also personally oversaw grain confiscations during the same time periods.

'Similar policies also inflicted enormous suffering on the Soviet Central Asian republic of Kazakhstan, the Kuban region, Crimea, the lower Volga region, and other parts of the Soviet Union. As an emissary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party, Kaganovich traveled to Ukraine, the central regions of the USSR, the NorthernCaucasus, and Siberia demanding the acceleration of collectivization and repressions against the Kulaks, who were generally blamed for the slow progress of collectivization.'
Lazar Kaganovich - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Dot Com]

As you will see in this thread.....nothing could be further from the truth.


You should take notes, and try to avoid further embarrassment.

I can't wait, this should be good

Another PoliSpice "commies are under every bed!!!" thread
Sheesh PoliSpice You REALLY need to come up w/ a new shtick

 

[Jantje_Smit]

The motivation to give and share originates in compassion, as 1 John 3:17 indicates—but there is choice involved.

Not really, if you're not generous enough you will go to hell

I believe Jesus said something about rich men, needles and heaven

 

[PoliticalChic]

7. Coercion, forced 'giving,' .....governmental theft.....is hardly the basis for charity.
Religion...the Judeo-Christian ones, at least, are based on free will.....not submission.



"God has created laws that govern human action and that work automatically, like the laws of physics.


A principle of the Bible is that there are blessings for obedience and curses for disobedience. God is not forcing people to obey His law. Blessings are the natural result of obeying His laws and principles. Generosity and sharing with those in need are biblical commands.

.... under God’s system...it is up to the giver to decide to give and how much he or she can afford to give, and, in many cases, whether he or she will give at all! God allows free choice. In fact, free will is essential to true Christianity.


Had God wanted to create robots that flawlessly keep His law, He could have. If He wanted to use the overwhelming force of government to impose His will on people, He could have. But God is concerned about people developing character, and this only happens through free choice." Is God a Socialist?

 

[PoliticalChic]

8. But there is one move "proof" that the Leftists use to promote communism/socialism....and is fairly powerful- if one is unfamiliar with biblical history.

Acts 2:44-45
44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need.

Hmmm.....kinda like "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs "





Now for the context: the quote refers to a festival celebrated by the Jews/Christians of the time, the time after the grain harvest.

"The preceding verses in Acts show that the time setting is the annual festival of Pentecost. On this day, thousands of Jews from all over the world were gathered in Jerusalem. ... In their excitement of finding God’s truth, conversing with God’s apostles and people of like mind, many remained in Jerusalem longer than they had planned and ran short of food and money. .... “Consequently, of necessity, they formed a sort of community for the time being only.

These people were not socialists or Communists. But they were generous, giving and compassionate! Many of the local Church members sold their property as needed to help fellow brothers meet their expenses in Jerusalem during this exciting time ..."


“They did not all sell everything they owned at once, but they sold property only when, or ‘as anyone might be in need.’ … an absolute community of goods never was practiced by the Church at Jerusalem or any other Christian church” Is God a Socialist?



Never a commune.....never a permanent socialist entity.

The bible is clear as to who gets help....and when.

 

[PoliticalChic]

9. Let's go forward with the point, and underscore that the Bible, rather than authorizing taking from some and giving to others, via governmental intimidation or incarceration, prescribes a very different solution.

A form of giving..."tithing".... "is not for the poor! It is for specific individuals who could not provide for themselves because of specific circumstances. This “welfare” was for the Levites, because they did not own any land; for foreigners who temporarily needed aid while in the nation; for the fatherless, who were too young to provide for themselves and did not have family to take care of them; and for widows who likewise were too old to work or had no family to support them.



...tithe was not given to able-bodied men and women who were capable of working. For able-bodied people, God’s welfare system is—work. How different from modern social welfare programs!

In fact, the Bible is clear that people should be rewarded by what they contribute to society.

The Bible is specific about what God expects of able-bodied members of society. In 2 Thessalonians 3:10, Paul said, “If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat”





The Bible is filled with many such admonitions to work and provide for your family. “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel” (1 Timothy 5:8)." Is God a Socialist?




So....redistribution is not charity a la the Bible....it is theft

And the welfare system endorsed by scripture is .....personal responsibility, and earning.




The Liberal welfare system.....socialism writ large......is clearly unrelated to the Bible.

 

[JoeB131]

An accurate understanding of the Bible requires the distinction between 'redistribution' and 'generosity.'

"Some people conclude from these verses that the Bible supports government-enforced wealth redistribution. But what these verses really show is that the Bible advocates generosity.

These are two very different concepts.
Generosity springs from free will....not force, coercion, or threats.

I try to avoid your crazy because- you know- crazy.

But here's the thing. Jesus says that the rich who don't share with the poor are going to Hell.

State sanctioned redistribution have behind it the threat of confiscation, imprisonment or even execution at the harsher ends of it.

How are not both "coercive"? Frankly, I think threatening you with eternal damnation and hellfire is a lot more coercive than, "Well, if we catch you cheating on your 1040, we'll audit you."

Be Generous is not a nice suggestion, it's a threat in the Bible. (of course, everything is a threat in the bible, because the Abrahamic Sky Pixie only does threats.)