Regime change in Israel?

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by Gop guy
My RWA, a tad harsh?

Harsh?
He's a jackass what do you expect.

 

[menewa]

Originally posted by nycflasher

I would have never guessed you'd compare Saddam Hussein's Iraq to Israel.

You're right that the torture chambers and gassing of Kurds and the decades of fascist rule of Hussein are in another league.
However, I was merely taking the primary reasons used by Bush and applying them to Israel. I know that Israel enjoys an elected government and much more freedom than the people of Hussein's Iraq ever knew. However, using the rational used by Bush for invading Iraq, we could easily apply his formula and have an excuse to invade a large number of countries. Here's a few more that would qualify: Iran, Syria, China, India, Russia, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Rwanda, etc.

 

[jowlover]

Israel is NOT a democrasy, its a racist aphartied state, why not have an election and let the palestinians vote, and tear down the walls and let the people have there freedom and allow the arabs to be equal citizens, because then the racists in Israel would lose power, America has no right to be giving those sikko racist bastard 10 billion$ a year in foriegn aid, and it's a fact that the reason everyone in the world today hates America/ the reason for the 9/11 is that AMerica supports this disgusting racist oppresor state, Americans must demand all funding for the Aphartied state end NOW, and that it be sanctioned like S. Afrikaa was when it was an aphartied state.

 

[etoile]

Originally posted by jowlover
Israel is NOT a democrasy, its a racist aphartied state, why not have an election and let the palestinians vote, and tear down the walls and let the people have there freedom and allow the arabs to be equal citizens, because then the racists in Israel would lose power, America has no right to be giving those sikko racist bastard 10 billion$ a year in foriegn aid, and it's a fact that the reason everyone in the world today hates America/ the reason for the 9/11 is that AMerica supports this disgusting racist oppresor state, Americans must demand all funding for the Aphartied state end NOW, and that it be sanctioned like S. Afrikaa was whe it was an aphartied state.

But the Palestinian authority? Palestinians are not citizens of Israel. By UN charter, Israel is a Jewish state. What walls? You mean the ones that block terrorists from infiltrating Israeli society? The ones that prevent murder of children, pregnant women, teens, even Israeli Arabs (who do vote)? Arabs are equal citizens, the ones that didn't flee ISrael during 1948 and 1967 in hopes of returning after ISrael was destroyed. (note: it never happened, despite attacks by 5 armies; the intent to destroy Israel and the Jews was unconcealed by said armies and the nations they represented, ever. So much for fair neighbors. Not racism. At all. OH no)
Also, you'd have more credibility if you'd learn to spell.

9/11 was not because of America's support for Israel. 9/11 happened because America does not yield to terror. Had America appeased the terrorists, ceased all funding to Israel, withdrew all aid, destroy its army, give half its land to Al Qaeda, 9/11 would still have happened. Let's look at some historical examples of when APPEASEMENT DOES NOT WORK:
-The Munich Pact: Chamberlain shakes hands with Hitler and gives over Czechoslovakia to persuade Hitler to not start a world war. Result? World War II, Holocaust, Fascism...
-The Sung Dynasty: paid tribute to their neighbors not to invade them. In 1126, the Mongols invaded anyway and the Sung had to flee South, where China thrived, for a little bit, until the Mongols took over that as well.
-THe Oslo Accords: Israel's Yitzhak Rabin and PLO's Yassir Arafat (before this considered a terrorist) sign agreement that contains the following provisions for the nations:
Israel--
~to give Palestinians sufficient territory for their state
~to recognize the PLO (renamed PA) as a legal gov't body
~to educate its people for peace and tolerance
~to allow the Palestinians a police force of 10,000 and to supply weapons
Palestinians--
~End terror; eradicate terror organizations
~Educate for peace and tolerance
~Recognize Israel (and therefore rewrite PLO charter)
~Protect Jewish holy sites under Israeli control
Israel kept all its commitments. Palestinians kept none. But, the institution of Suicide Bombing emerged.
-Camp David: Ehud Barak offers 95% of the territories plus East Jerusalem to Arafat--an unprecedented offer; almost certain death to Israel. Result: the 2nd Intifada, with suicide bombings escalating to 1 a day; 4 a week big enough to be reported worldwide. In February 2003, there were no successful attacks, but there were 56 attempts in 28 days. So much for "peace."

Sharon is now forbidding the expansion of the settlements, is attempting to protect Jewish holy sites (remember the burning of the Jewish temple in Nablas) and is working towards a Palestinian state.
The only people who have refused their state are the Palestinians: until Israel is destroyed (see the doctrines of Hamas and Hezbollah, both terror orgs; also see the PLo charter), they do not want a state.

Concerning foreign aid, it is balanced out by the EU's multi-billion $ funding of the PA: money going to weapons and sniper training camps (working for peace, Oh yes).

In conclusion: once again I will quote Sol Stern, City Journal, summer 2003: "Israel without apology or equivocation" is what she, ISrael, deserves to be.
Sources: "Relentless: The Struggle for Peace in Israel" (by honestreporting.com); www.honestreporting.com; US NEws and World Report, assorted editorials by Mortimer Zuckerman; Jerusalem Post; "A History of the Middle East Wars" by John Westwood.

 

[Said1]

Originally posted by etoile
Concerning foreign aid, it is balanced out by the EU's multi-billion $ funding of the PA: money going to weapons and sniper training camps (working for peace, Oh yes).

Any links?

 

[nycflasher]

Originally posted by menewa
On the right side of the battle? It's partly because of Israel that 3000 innnocent US civilians died on 9-11. If you side with Israel's harsh tactics against a starving people, you side with creating more terrorist.

Let's not blame Israel for 9-11.

And, really, if you want to blame anyone for the lack of peace between Israel and the Palestinians right now blame Yaser Arafat. Stupid son of a bitch should not have walked out on discussions in 2000.(this is really the only part of Clinton's book Iam interested in)

Is it any wonder there is no peace yet with him at the helm?

I do, however, think that Israel should have never built 'settlements'.

I also think that many of those critical of Israel don't understand what it is like to be under threat of daily bombings by psycopaths.
Iraqis and our military do, however.

 

[etoile]

Originally posted by Said1
Any links?

Sure:
http://public-integrity.org/publications29.htm
This is a link to the American Center for Democracy.

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/kushner200404070839.asp
This article doesn't actually deal with the issue, but mentions it quite a few times. It goes to National Review.

http://coranet.radicalparty.org/pressreleases/press_release.php?func=detail&par=1893
Admittedly, this one is a bit old. However, read the first paragraph to see that this issue has not just surfaced in the last few months.

http://www.un.int/sweden/pages/eu/state_eu/stmar15a.htm
A security council open debate on the Middle East.

http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/0/30d7b0c0667c9c0185256c9200525752?OpenDocument
This one presents the funding in a more favorable light.

For more such links, PM me.

 

[Said1]

Originally posted by etoile
Sure:
http://public-integrity.org/publications29.htm
This is a link to the American Center for Democracy.

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/kushner200404070839.asp
This article doesn't actually deal with the issue, but mentions it quite a few times. It goes to National Review.

http://coranet.radicalparty.org/pressreleases/press_release.php?func=detail&par=1893
Admittedly, this one is a bit old. However, read the first paragraph to see that this issue has not just surfaced in the last few months.

http://www.un.int/sweden/pages/eu/state_eu/stmar15a.htm
A security council open debate on the Middle East.

http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/0/30d7b0c0667c9c0185256c9200525752?OpenDocument
This one presents the funding in a more favorable light.

For more such links, PM me.

Thanks, I love when people do my home work for me : Really, thanks for taking the time to put that up.

 

[etoile]

Originally posted by Said1
Thanks, I love when people do my home work for me : Really, thanks for taking the time to put that up.

Well, glad I could be of service...though I don't routinely do others' homework, having enough of my own.

 

[Said1]

Originally posted by etoile
Well, glad I could be of service...though I don't routinely do others' homework, having enough of my own.

No kidding. I asked for links because it's a subject I've never thought of looking into before, and since you brought it up.....

 

[etoile]

Originally posted by nycflasher
Let's not blame Israel for 9-11.

And, really, if you want to blame anyone for the lack of peace between Israel and the Palestinians right now blame Yaser Arafat. Stupid son of a bitch should not have walked out on discussions in 2000.(this is really the only part of Clinton's book Iam interested in)

Is it any wonder there is no peace yet with him at the helm?

I do, however, think that Israel should have never built 'settlements'.

I also think that many of those critical of Israel don't understand what it is like to be under threat of daily bombings by psycopaths.
Iraqis and our military do, however.

About the settlements, some of them can't be gotten rid of that easily. Consider several holy sites, such as Kiryat Arba, a suburb of Hebron- now inhabited by Palestinians- where the Patriarchs and Matriarchs of Judaism (except Rachel) are buried.

Sources:
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/kiryatarba.html
and
"Judaism in a Nutshell: Israel" by Shimon Apisdorf

 

[MrMarbles]

Peace in the middle east is probably one of the most complicated problems facing the world today.

Israelis and Palestinians are both wrong. They are basically fighting a holy war. Unless they both put aside they're religion and look at the matter from a human and rational point of view, no real gain will be made.

There is no simple answer.