Refutation of a common pro-war argument

[SpidermanTuba]

In keeping with the tradition of great USMessageBoard posters, I will post something I did not write - without comment - except to say that a friend of mine who enlisted in the Armed Forces said that his RECRUITER used this same bogus argument to convince him Iraq was a safe place.

Our ProtectorateEditors note: There has been a talking point floating around pro-war blogs and sites. My good friend, Tom Cairney who is no paleo-conservative, ran into it in an e-mail sent to his Vietnam-Vet father from friends who rib him about his lack of enthusiasm for our adventure in Iraq. First we will see the e-mail and then my friend's devastating critique His interlocutors, will be italicized


Interesting Thought for the day:


If you consider that there have been an average of 160,000 troops in the Iraq theater of operations during the last 22 months, and a total of 2112 deaths, that gives a firearm death rate of 60 per 100,000. The rate in Washington D.C. is 80.6 per 100,000. That means that you are about 25% more likely to be shot and killed in our Nation's Capitol, which has some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation, than you are in Iraq.


Conclusion: We should immediately pull out of Washington D.C.

"The rate in Washington D.C. is 80.6 per 100,000."
-Pete

That's simply not true. This from Wikipedia:

"At the peak of the violent crime wave in the early 1990s, Washington, D.C., was known as the "murder capital" of the United States. The number of homicides peaked in 1991, with 482 murders. As the population of the city was just over 600,000 at that time, this meant that the District's homicide rate was 80.6 per 100,000 inhabitants."

In 2004, DC had 198 killings, in a population of 555,523. That's a rate of 35.64/100,000.

Now my father will tell you that math has never been my strong suit, but let's look at the numbers, a little more closely.

1991 DC Homicides- 482/600,000= 80.6/100,000 per year.

American combat deaths in Iraq- 2112/22 months/160,000= 60 deaths per month.
Multiply by 12 months, and you get 720 deaths/year.

[link=(Full Link)]LINK[/link][link=([url]http://www.michaelbrendan.com/blog/iraq-as-dangerous-as-dc.html[/url])]LINK[/link]

 

[manu1959]

ya this is the argument we use all the time to justify war.....

 

[dilloduck]

In keeping with the tradition of great USMessageBoard posters, I will post something I did not write - without comment - except to say that a friend of mine who enlisted in the Armed Forces said that his RECRUITER used this same bogus argument to convince him Iraq was a safe place.




[link=(Full Link)]LINK[/link][link=([url]http://www.michaelbrendan.com/blog/iraq-as-dangerous-as-dc.html[/url])]LINK[/link]

You waste our time with silly statistics?

 

[manu1959]

You waste our time with silly statistics?

remember he told us he is smarter than us so this could be a trick

 

[SpidermanTuba]

ya this is the argument we use all the time to justify war.....

I suppose its just a lie recruiters use to convince people to join the military.

 

[dilloduck]

remember he told us he is smarter than us so this could be a trick

Thanks for the heads up. Us stupid people need to watch each others backs.

 

[manu1959]

I suppose its just a lie recruiters use to convince people to join the military.

wait slow down you are confusing me...... you said this was a "common pro war argument"....now you are saying that this is a recruiters tactic to get people to join the military.....iam shcked simply shocked that you would bait and switch a topic like this.....


told ya he was tricky dillo....spidy is too smart for us

 

[LuvRPgrl]

I suppose its just a lie recruiters use to convince people to join the military.

I guess they figure if anyone is dumb enough to fall for it,

anyways, the whole thing looks like gibberish to me, and I doubt any recruiter used it.

 

[dilloduck]

wait slow down you are confusing me...... you said this was a "common pro war argument"....now you are saying that this is a recruiters tactic to get people to join the military.....iam shcked simply shocked that you would bait and switch a topic like this.....


told ya he was tricky dillo....spidy is too smart for us

Gosh--I hope I never get caught alone in here with him. :cof:

 

[Semper Fi]

Hmmm, upon joining the military one signs away 4 years of his life, if nto all of it. Young men do not join the military on amusing statistics.

Also, please tell me and the USMB patrons just how the aforementioned ratio would be a pro-war argument, as you stated.

 

[LuvRPgrl]

Hmmm, upon joining the military one signs away 4 years of his life, if nto all of it. Young men do not join the military on amusing statistics.

Also, please tell me and the USMB patrons just how the aforementioned ratio would be a pro-war argument, as you stated.

Im pretty good at math, and stats, (course not quite as good as the two smart fellas here!) and I couldnt get it.


REFUTATION of a common anti war arguement.

"The war in Iraq was just wrong cuz the Iraqi soldiers were forced to wear pink pants by saddam"

WEll, thats just plain silly, we all know pink pants cause men to fight much more loyally than US marine cammies.

 

[5stringJeff]

[link=(Full Link)]LINK[/link][link=([url]http://www.michaelbrendan.com/blog/iraq-as-dangerous-as-dc.html[/url])]LINK[/link]

j/k

 

[theHawk]

Damn...the murder rate in all of Iraq is worse than D.C.


Put Saddamn back in power and pull our troops out it was all wrong.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

wait slow down you are confusing me...... you said this was a "common pro war argument"....now you are saying that this is a recruiters tactic to get people to join the military.....iam shcked simply shocked that you would bait and switch a topic like this.....


told ya he was tricky dillo....spidy is too smart for us

That's right. I said it was a common pro-war argument.

And using the standards by which you use to determine whether or not Bush is telling a lie, there is no way in hell you can prove that I lied. I said its "common". Heck, that could mean anything. Herpes is a common STD. Doesn't mean most people have it. Chinese people are common in the US, doesn't mean you won't see a single one of them out of 100. The word "common" is there for me to twist and contort anyway I like to avoid having to admit that I might have written something not 100% true.


Hey, Bush said we would find WMD, he didn't say WHEN! Hell, it could be 20, 30 50 years from now. 100. Doesn't matter. He didn't lie.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

I guess they figure if anyone is dumb enough to fall for it,

anyways, the whole thing looks like gibberish to me, and I doubt any recruiter used it.

I can't think of any reason an extremely pro-Bush person who just joined the Navy would lie about an argument his recruiter used to get him to join up.

I like your attitude LuvRGirl. Telling Mexicans we'll take them to the US and then shipping them to North Korea, fine with you. Recruiters using things which they claim as facts but which are not at all facts to dupe people into joining the military - OK with you!

What are you? A used car salesman?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Hmmm, upon joining the military one signs away 4 years of his life, if nto all of it. Young men do not join the military on amusing statistics.

Then why do recruiters feel inclined to use factually incorrect statistics?

Also, please tell me and the USMB patrons just how the aforementioned ratio would be a pro-war argument, as you stated.

Making the cost of the war not sound as bad as it is is the cornerstone of the pro-war argument, because anyone who believes Iraq was actually a legitimate threat to the security of the United States needs to be taken off the ventilator and be allowed to die a dignified death.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

Damn...the murder rate in all of Iraq is worse than D.C.


Put Saddamn back in power and pull our troops out it was all wrong.

It doesn't matter which you do. Iraqis die at a rate of about 13000 a year whether is Saddam or the US or our puppet government in power.

 

[Annie]

It doesn't matter which you do. Iraqis die at a rate of about 13000 a year whether is Saddam or the US or our puppet government in power.

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Link?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Link?

Link what?

Hussein was in power about 25 years and killed about 300000 people.


At the time that Bush said 30000 Iraqis had died as a result of the U.S. invasion, we had been in Iraq about 31 months.

You do the math.

 

[Annie]

Link what?

Hussein was in power about 25 years and killed about 300000 people.


At the time that Bush said 30000 Iraqis had died as a result of the U.S. invasion, we had been in Iraq about 31 months.

You do the math.

Cute, so now you are claiming Saddam's murder rate to be segued to US war in Iraq. Slick.