Ref 71 Domestic Partnership could be approved in Washington

[bodecea]

And what is the legal definition of marriage?? I rest my case!

Definition of Marriage:

Main Entry: mar·riage
Pronunciation: \ˈmer-ij, ˈma-rij\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English mariage, from Anglo-French, from marier to marry
Date: 14th century
1 a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage> b : the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock c : the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage
2 : an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected;

That's not the legal definition but nice try.

Have you seen the legal definition in Massachusetts? In Vermont? In New Hampshire?

 

[DiamondDave]

sorry, but i don't buy it. have to agree to disagree on this; i think people are hardwired as to sexual preference.

show it

You can think you are a llama too... but just because you think it, does not make it so

i can't, that's why it's called an *opinion*, but then you can't disprove it, either, nor can you prove your assertion that it's a choice.

go figure.

But I have shown that there are choices we make against 'nature' every day.... and when something is not inherent to our biology it is inherently do do with our environment, choices, actions, upbringing, exposures, etc

Just as we are not born nazis.... and that the same kid when exposed and trained to act that way, will, until some possible time that they have different exposures and behaviors that could change that... but the same offspring, raised in a different environment will not inherently become that nazi

You can have an opinion and not back it up with fact or reason... and that opinion can easily be dismissed by others... you have every right to have it... but that does not make your opinion fact or a right or anything else, nor should it be used to back up an assertion

 

[del]

show it

You can think you are a llama too... but just because you think it, does not make it so

i can't, that's why it's called an *opinion*, but then you can't disprove it, either, nor can you prove your assertion that it's a choice.

go figure.

But I have shown that there are choices we make against 'nature' every day.... and when something is not inherent to our biology it is inherently do do with our environment, choices, actions, upbringing, exposures, etc

Just as we are not born nazis.... and that the same kid when exposed and trained to act that way, will, until some possible time that they have different exposures and behaviors that could change that... but the same offspring, raised in a different environment will not inherently become that nazi

You can have an opinion and not back it up with fact or reason... and that opinion can easily be dismissed by others... you have every right to have it... but that does not make your opinion fact or a right or anything else, nor should it be used to back up an assertion

you've given your opinion; you've proved nothing with your anecdotes.

i never said my opinion was fact; try reading for comprehension.

 

[DiamondDave]

i can't, that's why it's called an *opinion*, but then you can't disprove it, either, nor can you prove your assertion that it's a choice.

go figure.

But I have shown that there are choices we make against 'nature' every day.... and when something is not inherent to our biology it is inherently do do with our environment, choices, actions, upbringing, exposures, etc

Just as we are not born nazis.... and that the same kid when exposed and trained to act that way, will, until some possible time that they have different exposures and behaviors that could change that... but the same offspring, raised in a different environment will not inherently become that nazi

You can have an opinion and not back it up with fact or reason... and that opinion can easily be dismissed by others... you have every right to have it... but that does not make your opinion fact or a right or anything else, nor should it be used to back up an assertion

you've given your opinion; you've proved nothing with your anecdotes.

i never said my opinion was fact; try reading for comprehension.

I have not given an opinion.. rather stated the fact that what is not in biology comes from environment, choices, exposures, actions, teachings, etc.... and that nothing showing homosexuality to be in our genes has ever been shown

An opinion would be me saying that homosexuality is not 'nice'

 

[del]

But I have shown that there are choices we make against 'nature' every day.... and when something is not inherent to our biology it is inherently do do with our environment, choices, actions, upbringing, exposures, etc

Just as we are not born nazis.... and that the same kid when exposed and trained to act that way, will, until some possible time that they have different exposures and behaviors that could change that... but the same offspring, raised in a different environment will not inherently become that nazi

You can have an opinion and not back it up with fact or reason... and that opinion can easily be dismissed by others... you have every right to have it... but that does not make your opinion fact or a right or anything else, nor should it be used to back up an assertion

you've given your opinion; you've proved nothing with your anecdotes.

i never said my opinion was fact; try reading for comprehension.

I have not given an opinion.. rather stated the fact that what is not in biology comes from environment, choices, exposures, actions, teachings, etc.... and that nothing showing homosexuality to be in our genes has ever been shown

An opinion would be me saying that homosexuality is not 'nice'

whatever, dude.
if you want to call your opinion fact, knock yourself out, because we know everything possible to be known about how human biology functions, right?

all those researchers working on genetic, chemical and other aspects of how human sexuality works are just stealing the money. bastards.

 

[DiamondDave]

you've given your opinion; you've proved nothing with your anecdotes.

i never said my opinion was fact; try reading for comprehension.

I have not given an opinion.. rather stated the fact that what is not in biology comes from environment, choices, exposures, actions, teachings, etc.... and that nothing showing homosexuality to be in our genes has ever been shown

An opinion would be me saying that homosexuality is not 'nice'

whatever, dude.
if you want to call your opinion fact, knock yourself out, because we know everything possible to be known about how human biology functions, right?

all those researchers working on genetic, chemical and other aspects of how human sexuality works are just stealing the money. bastards.

Are you saying that what does not from biology does not come from environment, choices, exposures, actions, teachings, etc?? And that something has been shown to prove homosexuality has basis in our genetic makeup?

What I have stated is indeed fact...

 

[del]

I have not given an opinion.. rather stated the fact that what is not in biology comes from environment, choices, exposures, actions, teachings, etc.... and that nothing showing homosexuality to be in our genes has ever been shown

An opinion would be me saying that homosexuality is not 'nice'

whatever, dude.
if you want to call your opinion fact, knock yourself out, because we know everything possible to be known about how human biology functions, right?

all those researchers working on genetic, chemical and other aspects of how human sexuality works are just stealing the money. bastards.

Are you saying that what does not from biology does not come from environment, choices, exposures, actions, teachings, etc?? And that something has been shown to prove homosexuality has basis in our genetic makeup?

What I have stated is indeed fact...

no, i'm saying that we don't know all there is to know about human biology.

should i type slower?

what you've stated is your opinion. nothing more.

 

[DiamondDave]

whatever, dude.
if you want to call your opinion fact, knock yourself out, because we know everything possible to be known about how human biology functions, right?

all those researchers working on genetic, chemical and other aspects of how human sexuality works are just stealing the money. bastards.

Are you saying that what does not from biology does not come from environment, choices, exposures, actions, teachings, etc?? And that something has been shown to prove homosexuality has basis in our genetic makeup?

What I have stated is indeed fact...

no, i'm saying that we don't know all there is to know about human biology.

should i type slower?

what you've stated is your opinion. nothing more.

On that.. you are correct... but nothing has been shown genetically whatsoever to support homosexuality being related to our genetic makeup.. that is fact

And it is also fact that what does not come from biology comes from external influences such as choice, environment, education, exposure, etc..

I have not stated opinion.. I have stated those facts... and you have shown nothing that factually supports anything behind your opinion

The opinion that I have stated is in regards to homosexuality and 'gay marriage' in terms of inclusion in the definition of the institution of marriage.... and that I base that opinion on the facts I mentioned above and the tradition of marriage in cultures being between a man and a woman.... I have also stated my opinion that in terms of equal treatment of those who choose to be together in a family unit, that the government should treat everyone equally without trying to redefine what marriage is.. but that in government recognition of all family couples as 'civil unions' that all receive the same legal benefits that include everything from census recognition to inheritance rights to power of attorney for medical issues and emergencies....

 

[bodecea]

show it

You can think you are a llama too... but just because you think it, does not make it so

i can't, that's why it's called an *opinion*, but then you can't disprove it, either, nor can you prove your assertion that it's a choice.

go figure.

But I have shown that there are choices we make against 'nature' every day.... and when something is not inherent to our biology it is inherently do do with our environment, choices, actions, upbringing, exposures, etc

That is true...we make CHOICES on whether to act on things we naturally want to do or not. The question is....why are gay people not supposed to be allowed to make a CHOICE on what gender they are hard wired to love and desire? Can you answer that?

Just as we are not born nazis.... and that the same kid when exposed and trained to act that way, will, until some possible time that they have different exposures and behaviors that could change that... but the same offspring, raised in a different environment will not inherently become that nazi

Great...compare Gay people with Nazis.

You can have an opinion and not back it up with fact or reason... and that opinion can easily be dismissed by others... you have every right to have it... but that does not make your opinion fact or a right or anything else, nor should it be used to back up an assertion

Anyone who was raised with a person who turned out gay or raised a person who turned out gay will tell you they could tell at a very early age. Maybe you should listen to those who actually have some experience.

BTW...did you know that anywhere between 4 - 10% of the population is gay....but extended families with at least 1 gay member has a HIGHER chance to have more. Genetic? (at least partially) And when one identical twin is gay, there is over a 50% chance of the other twin being gay too...even if separated at birth. Genetic? (at least partially)

 

[Valerie]

Why does it matter whether queers are born that way or choose it?

It serves no greater purpose whatsoever for society to exercise it's hammer of authority to keep homos from marrying each other. None. Zero. Zilch.

It only matters to those who want to discriminate against gays as if their sexuality is merely a trendy lifestyle choice. Such "proof" would justify their bigotry.


Examples of promiscuous individuals of any persuasion aside, people who choose a life partner of the same sex have no need to justify their existence to the state.

Homosexual life partners deserve the same benefits of committed partnership that legal Marriage provides and once they figure out the proper way to petition their respective states for equal treatment under the law without trying to tear down the existing Institution of Marriage, this issue will drop off the political manipulation radar, as it should.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

i can't, that's why it's called an *opinion*, but then you can't disprove it, either, nor can you prove your assertion that it's a choice.

go figure.

But I have shown that there are choices we make against 'nature' every day.... and when something is not inherent to our biology it is inherently do do with our environment, choices, actions, upbringing, exposures, etc

That is true...we make CHOICES on whether to act on things we naturally want to do or not. The question is....why are gay people not supposed to be allowed to make a CHOICE on what gender they are hard wired to love and desire? Can you answer that?

Just as we are not born nazis.... and that the same kid when exposed and trained to act that way, will, until some possible time that they have different exposures and behaviors that could change that... but the same offspring, raised in a different environment will not inherently become that nazi

Great...compare Gay people with Nazis.

You can have an opinion and not back it up with fact or reason... and that opinion can easily be dismissed by others... you have every right to have it... but that does not make your opinion fact or a right or anything else, nor should it be used to back up an assertion

Anyone who was raised with a person who turned out gay or raised a person who turned out gay will tell you they could tell at a very early age. Maybe you should listen to those who actually have some experience.

BTW...did you know that anywhere between 4 - 10% of the population is gay....but extended families with at least 1 gay member has a HIGHER chance to have more. Genetic? (at least partially) And when one identical twin is gay, there is over a 50% chance of the other twin being gay too...even if separated at birth. Genetic? (at least partially)

Why are Incestuous loving adult couples denied the right to marry? And do you support their right or do you think the people have a right to exclude them from marriage?

 

[DiamondDave]

i can't, that's why it's called an *opinion*, but then you can't disprove it, either, nor can you prove your assertion that it's a choice.

go figure.

But I have shown that there are choices we make against 'nature' every day.... and when something is not inherent to our biology it is inherently do do with our environment, choices, actions, upbringing, exposures, etc

That is true...we make CHOICES on whether to act on things we naturally want to do or not. The question is....why are gay people not supposed to be allowed to make a CHOICE on what gender they are hard wired to love and desire? Can you answer that?

Just as we are not born nazis.... and that the same kid when exposed and trained to act that way, will, until some possible time that they have different exposures and behaviors that could change that... but the same offspring, raised in a different environment will not inherently become that nazi

Great...compare Gay people with Nazis.

You can have an opinion and not back it up with fact or reason... and that opinion can easily be dismissed by others... you have every right to have it... but that does not make your opinion fact or a right or anything else, nor should it be used to back up an assertion

Anyone who was raised with a person who turned out gay or raised a person who turned out gay will tell you they could tell at a very early age. Maybe you should listen to those who actually have some experience.

BTW...did you know that anywhere between 4 - 10% of the population is gay....but extended families with at least 1 gay member has a HIGHER chance to have more. Genetic? (at least partially) And when one identical twin is gay, there is over a 50% chance of the other twin being gay too...even if separated at birth. Genetic? (at least partially)

But you have not shown even one piece of evidence that supports your claim of hard wiring.. period.. and they can choose to love or fuck or play around with whomever they want...

Would you rather i make the comparison to being in a particular religion?? Say being taught to be Amish or Mormon?? The particular group or choice or behavior does not matter...

And in terms of homosexuality being more in the 'limelight' there is more of an exposure to it.. and as that exposure has grown, the acceptance and practice of it has grown... as shown by increasing numbers of teens in high school dabbling in bisexual and homosexual activities.... and the tendency that those who are not accepted by the more popular groups do find acceptance then, more readily in a shunned group.... and the exposure evidence and influences can continue to be shown as well

 

[JScott]

But I have shown that there are choices we make against 'nature' every day.... and when something is not inherent to our biology it is inherently do do with our environment, choices, actions, upbringing, exposures, etc

That is true...we make CHOICES on whether to act on things we naturally want to do or not. The question is....why are gay people not supposed to be allowed to make a CHOICE on what gender they are hard wired to love and desire? Can you answer that?



Great...compare Gay people with Nazis.

You can have an opinion and not back it up with fact or reason... and that opinion can easily be dismissed by others... you have every right to have it... but that does not make your opinion fact or a right or anything else, nor should it be used to back up an assertion

Anyone who was raised with a person who turned out gay or raised a person who turned out gay will tell you they could tell at a very early age. Maybe you should listen to those who actually have some experience.

BTW...did you know that anywhere between 4 - 10% of the population is gay....but extended families with at least 1 gay member has a HIGHER chance to have more. Genetic? (at least partially) And when one identical twin is gay, there is over a 50% chance of the other twin being gay too...even if separated at birth. Genetic? (at least partially)

Why are Incestuous loving adult couples denied the right to marry? And do you support their right or do you think the people have a right to exclude them from marriage?

You seem to have a fascination with incest.

If you would like to marry a family member then go for it. A huge majority of the rest of us wouldnt want that, gay or straight.

Its a weak argument anyway. No, I wouldnt want to marry my dog or my cat or my car for that matter. We're talking grown adult humans. Humans with the ability to reason.

Bah, why do I try to convince you? Youll never change your mind. You hate gays and have "many" as friends that are gay Ill bet and have no problem with their choice.....yada yada.....

 

[JScott]

But I have shown that there are choices we make against 'nature' every day.... and when something is not inherent to our biology it is inherently do do with our environment, choices, actions, upbringing, exposures, etc

That is true...we make CHOICES on whether to act on things we naturally want to do or not. The question is....why are gay people not supposed to be allowed to make a CHOICE on what gender they are hard wired to love and desire? Can you answer that?



Great...compare Gay people with Nazis.

You can have an opinion and not back it up with fact or reason... and that opinion can easily be dismissed by others... you have every right to have it... but that does not make your opinion fact or a right or anything else, nor should it be used to back up an assertion

Anyone who was raised with a person who turned out gay or raised a person who turned out gay will tell you they could tell at a very early age. Maybe you should listen to those who actually have some experience.

BTW...did you know that anywhere between 4 - 10% of the population is gay....but extended families with at least 1 gay member has a HIGHER chance to have more. Genetic? (at least partially) And when one identical twin is gay, there is over a 50% chance of the other twin being gay too...even if separated at birth. Genetic? (at least partially)

But you have not shown even one piece of evidence that supports your claim of hard wiring.. period.. and they can choose to love or fuck or play around with whomever they want...

Would you rather i make the comparison to being in a particular religion?? Say being taught to be Amish or Mormon?? The particular group or choice or behavior does not matter...

And in terms of homosexuality being more in the 'limelight' there is more of an exposure to it.. and as that exposure has grown, the acceptance and practice of it has grown... as shown by increasing numbers of teens in high school dabbling in bisexual and homosexual activities.... and the tendency that those who are not accepted by the more popular groups do find acceptance then, more readily in a shunned group.... and the exposure evidence and influences can continue to be shown as well

You cant show proof that its grown because it hasnt. It remains and has remained constant forever....

Would you swing to the same sex? I didnt think so. Why would anyone else?

Again, why do I bother?

 

[DiamondDave]

That is true...we make CHOICES on whether to act on things we naturally want to do or not. The question is....why are gay people not supposed to be allowed to make a CHOICE on what gender they are hard wired to love and desire? Can you answer that?



Great...compare Gay people with Nazis.


Anyone who was raised with a person who turned out gay or raised a person who turned out gay will tell you they could tell at a very early age. Maybe you should listen to those who actually have some experience.

BTW...did you know that anywhere between 4 - 10% of the population is gay....but extended families with at least 1 gay member has a HIGHER chance to have more. Genetic? (at least partially) And when one identical twin is gay, there is over a 50% chance of the other twin being gay too...even if separated at birth. Genetic? (at least partially)

But you have not shown even one piece of evidence that supports your claim of hard wiring.. period.. and they can choose to love or fuck or play around with whomever they want...

Would you rather i make the comparison to being in a particular religion?? Say being taught to be Amish or Mormon?? The particular group or choice or behavior does not matter...

And in terms of homosexuality being more in the 'limelight' there is more of an exposure to it.. and as that exposure has grown, the acceptance and practice of it has grown... as shown by increasing numbers of teens in high school dabbling in bisexual and homosexual activities.... and the tendency that those who are not accepted by the more popular groups do find acceptance then, more readily in a shunned group.... and the exposure evidence and influences can continue to be shown as well

You cant show proof that its grown because it hasnt. It remains and has remained constant forever....

Would you swing to the same sex? I didnt think so. Why would anyone else?

Again, why do I bother?

Again... would you choose to bind your head or feet to change their shape??? Would you choose to jerk off while sticking needles in your dick? That fact that you or I would not does not mean they are genetically hard wired.. but nice try

You can't show that the number of people claiming to be homosexual is higher now than in the past??? Horseshit.. try looking at the old % research results compared to the common 10% claim we have today

 

[manifold]

When I see this debate descend into convoluted, dissection of legal minutiae I just have to shake my head.

How about taking a look at the forest people?

I think most would agree that nobody has a right not to be offended... correct?

So, apart from spitefully reacting to having one's moral sensibilities offended by homosexuality, what purpose is served by depriving homosexuals of the option to marry each other?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

That is true...we make CHOICES on whether to act on things we naturally want to do or not. The question is....why are gay people not supposed to be allowed to make a CHOICE on what gender they are hard wired to love and desire? Can you answer that?



Great...compare Gay people with Nazis.


Anyone who was raised with a person who turned out gay or raised a person who turned out gay will tell you they could tell at a very early age. Maybe you should listen to those who actually have some experience.

BTW...did you know that anywhere between 4 - 10% of the population is gay....but extended families with at least 1 gay member has a HIGHER chance to have more. Genetic? (at least partially) And when one identical twin is gay, there is over a 50% chance of the other twin being gay too...even if separated at birth. Genetic? (at least partially)

Why are Incestuous loving adult couples denied the right to marry? And do you support their right or do you think the people have a right to exclude them from marriage?

You seem to have a fascination with incest.

If you would like to marry a family member then go for it. A huge majority of the rest of us wouldnt want that, gay or straight.

Its a weak argument anyway. No, I wouldnt want to marry my dog or my cat or my car for that matter. We're talking grown adult humans. Humans with the ability to reason.

Bah, why do I try to convince you? Youll never change your mind. You hate gays and have "many" as friends that are gay Ill bet and have no problem with their choice.....yada yada.....

And you would be ignoring the fact that there are incestuous couples even now, In fact a man brought a suit to court trying to overturn the ban. Seems in some states not only are direct family members banned from marrying but step family members are as well.

It is a simple concept. If the perversion of gays is to be recognized and allowed to marry why not the perversion of incest? They are consenting adults and loving couples and if they live next to you they have no effect what so ever on your life. All criteria listed as a reason to approve gay marriage. Further the argument has been made that the Majority should have no power to effect the minority in this manner. That marriage is a protected right.

 

[JScott]

But you have not shown even one piece of evidence that supports your claim of hard wiring.. period.. and they can choose to love or fuck or play around with whomever they want...

Would you rather i make the comparison to being in a particular religion?? Say being taught to be Amish or Mormon?? The particular group or choice or behavior does not matter...

And in terms of homosexuality being more in the 'limelight' there is more of an exposure to it.. and as that exposure has grown, the acceptance and practice of it has grown... as shown by increasing numbers of teens in high school dabbling in bisexual and homosexual activities.... and the tendency that those who are not accepted by the more popular groups do find acceptance then, more readily in a shunned group.... and the exposure evidence and influences can continue to be shown as well

You cant show proof that its grown because it hasnt. It remains and has remained constant forever....

Would you swing to the same sex? I didnt think so. Why would anyone else?

Again, why do I bother?

Again... would you choose to bind your head or feet to change their shape??? Would you choose to jerk off while sticking needles in your dick? That fact that you or I would not does not mean they are genetically hard wired.. but nice try

You can't show that the number of people claiming to be homosexual is higher now than in the past??? Horseshit.. try looking at the old % research results compared to the common 10% claim we have today

How about you show me since you are the one proclaiming the numbers are increasing.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

When I see this debate descend into convoluted, dissection of legal minutiae I just have to shake my head.

How about taking a look at the forest people?

I think most would agree that nobody has a right not to be offended... correct?

So, apart from spitefully reacting to having one's moral sensibilities offended by homosexuality, what purpose is served by depriving homosexuals of the option to marry each other?

What purpose is served by preventing Incestuous couples from marrying?

 

[JScott]

Why are Incestuous loving adult couples denied the right to marry? And do you support their right or do you think the people have a right to exclude them from marriage?

You seem to have a fascination with incest.

If you would like to marry a family member then go for it. A huge majority of the rest of us wouldnt want that, gay or straight.

Its a weak argument anyway. No, I wouldnt want to marry my dog or my cat or my car for that matter. We're talking grown adult humans. Humans with the ability to reason.

Bah, why do I try to convince you? Youll never change your mind. You hate gays and have "many" as friends that are gay Ill bet and have no problem with their choice.....yada yada.....

And you would be ignoring the fact that there are incestuous couples even now, In fact a man brought a suit to court trying to overturn the ban. Seems in some states not only are direct family members banned from marrying but step family members are as well.

It is a simple concept. If the perversion of gays is to be recognized and allowed to marry why not the perversion of incest? They are consenting adults and loving couples and if they live next to you they have no effect what so ever on your life. All criteria listed as a reason to approve gay marriage. Further the argument has been made that the Majority should have no power to effect the minority in this manner. That marriage is a protected right.

Ok, lets allow incest. Youve convinced me that there are others that deserve equal rights beyond gays.