Red Flag, Jan, 2017 is building

[Daryl Hunt]

It looks like it's probably going to be the F-22s and the F-35A against everyone else.

Red Flag isn't just one air battle. It's series of air battles where it's 3 to 1, 4 to 1, even 6 to one. They try and place the weapons system in it's worst position and see how things develop. The worst for the F-16s and F-15s is where there are no rules. The best would be to give the 16/15 the aid of command and control and not give the 22/35 any command support. Red Flag is designed for everyone to lose and win. You have to lose to learn how to win. This month will be interesting indeed.

 

[DrainBamage]

If F-35s perform poorly, anti-F-35 crowd cheers wildly since they have validation of what they believe.
If F-35 does well, anti-F-35 crowd dismisses it as a PR stunt and propaganda.

That is how a dogmatic believe system works, you have a conclusion and shape your reality to suit it as needed.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

If F-35s perform poorly, anti-F-35 crowd cheers wildly since they have validation of what they believe.
If F-35 does well, anti-F-35 crowd dismisses it as a PR stunt and propaganda.

That is how a dogmatic believe system works, you have a conclusion and shape your reality to suit it as needed.

Even if the F-35A performs beyond our wildest dreams, they will find someone to quote that says it can't do anything. As I said it before, we saw this with the F-15. But not with the units flying them. A fully equipped F-15SE will still set you back darned near as much as the last F-22s did. The Basic F-15E costs in the neighborhood of 110 mil per copy right now. And the F-22 still mops the floor with them. A fully equipped F-15SE will fare better as long as it's headed directly at the F-22 and the SE is not carrying anything other than 4 missiles. In the end,it will still lose. The cheaper fighters really can't be in the same airspace with even a F-15E since he gets first shot. I won't predict how the F-35A will fare. Let Red Flag speak for us all.

 

[DrainBamage]

Even if the F-35A performs beyond our wildest dreams, they will find someone to quote that says it can't do anything.

Indeed.

Actual F-35 pilot describing how the plane dominates the F-16 he has thousands of hours flying? Dismissed, can't be true, PR stunt, propaganda.
Blogger who has never served as a combat pilot and reads F-35 specs on the internet? Evidence. This person's info is gold, clearly the plane can't fly or fight.

It's almost comical and pathetic at the same time.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Even if the F-35A performs beyond our wildest dreams, they will find someone to quote that says it can't do anything.

Indeed.

Actual F-35 pilot describing how the plane dominates the F-16 he has thousands of hours flying? Dismissed, can't be true, PR stunt, propaganda.
Blogger who has never served as a combat pilot and reads F-35 specs on the internet? Evidence. This person's info is gold, clearly the plane can't fly or fight.

It's almost comical and pathetic at the same time.

Well, we just have to sit and wait to see the results. This is the make or break part.

 

[DrainBamage]

Looks like 13 F-35As and 12 F-22s are participating.

 

[DrainBamage]

lol = the big bone at 2:50

 

[Daryl Hunt]

lol = the big bone at 2:50

Here's a funny bit of tidbit. They had the bone on the chopping block a few years ago. The Fighter Mafia was running things and they thought the Bone was redundant. Today, the Bone is priceless.

 

[Bleipriester]

If F-35s perform poorly, anti-F-35 crowd cheers wildly since they have validation of what they believe.
If F-35 does well, anti-F-35 crowd dismisses it as a PR stunt and propaganda.

That is how a dogmatic believe system works, you have a conclusion and shape your reality to suit it as needed.

The F-35 must be outstanding or it cannot perform as good as the specialized planes it is up to replace.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

If F-35s perform poorly, anti-F-35 crowd cheers wildly since they have validation of what they believe.
If F-35 does well, anti-F-35 crowd dismisses it as a PR stunt and propaganda.

That is how a dogmatic believe system works, you have a conclusion and shape your reality to suit it as needed.

The F-35 must be outstanding or it cannot perform as good as the specialized planes it is up to replace.

I just found out that some of the systems designed for the F-35A has found it's way into the new AC-130J. While the price of the F-35A didn't go down because of it, the cost of the AC-130J went down.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

If F-35s perform poorly, anti-F-35 crowd cheers wildly since they have validation of what they believe.
If F-35 does well, anti-F-35 crowd dismisses it as a PR stunt and propaganda.

That is how a dogmatic believe system works, you have a conclusion and shape your reality to suit it as needed.

The F-35 must be outstanding or it cannot perform as good as the specialized planes it is up to replace.

It's a hard road, that one. It has already replaced a couple of the EC and EA birds. The Navy is working with the Marines on shooting WAAAYYYYY over the horizon. Some of the missiles that the Navy has has more range than the ships systems do. And the F-35B enhances it. I imagine that the F-35A is doing the same thing for the Air Force where their air launch missiles sometimes have more than a 300 mile range fired from a B-1.

 

[Manonthestreet]

So the F-22 will be covering its ass.....

 

[Bleipriester]

If F-35s perform poorly, anti-F-35 crowd cheers wildly since they have validation of what they believe.
If F-35 does well, anti-F-35 crowd dismisses it as a PR stunt and propaganda.

That is how a dogmatic believe system works, you have a conclusion and shape your reality to suit it as needed.

The F-35 must be outstanding or it cannot perform as good as the specialized planes it is up to replace.

It's a hard road, that one. It has already replaced a couple of the EC and EA birds. The Navy is working with the Marines on shooting WAAAYYYYY over the horizon. Some of the missiles that the Navy has has more range than the ships systems do. And the F-35B enhances it. I imagine that the F-35A is doing the same thing for the Air Force where their air launch missiles sometimes have more than a 300 mile range fired from a B-1.

What about the reports about high costs, short lifetime, irreliability?

 

[DrainBamage]

What about the reports about high costs, short lifetime, irreliability?

Costs have been steadily coming down as production ramps up, next batch LRIP-10 the F-35A will be under $100 million/unit flyaway cost and they are on track to be $85 million each by 2019. As a point of reference the last batch of Superhornets cost USN 78 million each for a far less capable aircraft.

Denmark just made their purchase decision of F-35 and documented expected service life of 8,000 hours, significantly longer than 6,000 hours of Superhornet of Eurofighter.

Early to judge eventual maintenance costs but critics of the plane tend to pounce on any issue as some sign that the plane is a dog and the program must be canceled, while forgetting that every modern aircraft has gone through the same thing of problems being discovered, hell F-18s were grounded several times last year and they are decades into their service lives. F-35 has over 200 aircraft flying and 85,000 flight hours to date without a single crash, that is remarkable. They had lost 10 F-15s and dozens of F-16s at this point in those programs.

 

[DrainBamage]

Here's a funny bit of tidbit. They had the bone on the chopping block a few years ago. The Fighter Mafia was running things and they thought the Bone was redundant. Today, the Bone is priceless.

It really is. Maritime strike, dominant CAS player, etc. who'd a thunk it 35 years ago for the specialized low altitude nuclear bomber?

 

[Bleipriester]

What about the reports about high costs, short lifetime, irreliability?

Costs have been steadily coming down as production ramps up, next batch LRIP-10 the F-35A will be under $100 million/unit flyaway cost and they are on track to be $85 million each by 2019. As a point of reference the last batch of Superhornets cost USN 78 million each for a far less capable aircraft.

Denmark just made their purchase decision of F-35 and documented expected service life of 8,000 hours, significantly longer than 6,000 hours of Superhornet of Eurofighter.

Early to judge eventual maintenance costs but critics of the plane tend to pounce on any issue as some sign that the plane is a dog and the program must be canceled, while forgetting that every modern aircraft has gone through the same thing of problems being discovered, hell F-18s were grounded several times last year and they are decades into their service lives. F-35 has over 200 aircraft flying and 85,000 flight hours to date without a single crash, that is remarkable. They had lost 10 F-15s and dozens of F-16s at this point in those programs.

Are you confident that the F35 will properly replace all the other types of warplanes?

 

[DrainBamage]

Are you confident that the F35 will properly replace all the other types of warplanes?

That is hard to answer since "properly" is a pretty open-ended word.

I believe it can completely replace the role of F-16, F-18, and AV8B, since there is no role these planes perform today that the F-35 won't be able to do better.

A-10 has some advantages in CAS, which while it doesn't make it better at CAS (F-35 has some advantages in CAS over A-10) it is hard to say it can do every aspect of CAS better. Can it replaces the A-10 in CAS? Yes. Despite what fanboys who think youtube videos of A-10 gun runs represent CAS, the overwhelming majority of CAS is dropping smart bombs. That includes the A-10.

F-15 is complicated. 1v1 F-35 is a better air superiority fighter, but F-15 has a much better combat radius so it could be argued there are situations where an F-15 is advantageous. F-15E (ground attack variant) can carry more ordnance than F-35 ever will, so as a bomb truck it has both range and payload advantages. The latter doesn't matter as much since I don't think F-35 is meant to replace F-15E.

 

[Bleipriester]

Are you confident that the F35 will properly replace all the other types of warplanes?

That is hard to answer since "properly" is a pretty open-ended word.

I believe it can completely replace the role of F-16, F-18, and AV8B, since there is no role these planes perform today that the F-35 won't be able to do better.

A-10 has some advantages in CAS, which while it doesn't make it better at CAS (F-35 has some advantages in CAS over A-10) it is hard to say it can do every aspect of CAS better. Can it replaces the A-10 in CAS? Yes. Despite what fanboys who think youtube videos of A-10 gun runs represent CAS, the overwhelming majority of CAS is dropping smart bombs. That includes the A-10.

F-15 is complicated. 1v1 F-35 is a better air superiority fighter, but F-15 has a much better combat radius so it could be argued there are situations where an F-15 is advantageous. F-15E (ground attack variant) can carry more ordnance than F-35 ever will, so as a bomb truck it has both range and payload advantages. The latter doesn't matter as much since I don't think F-35 is meant to replace F-15E.

Thanks for the information. I am especially interested in the CAS role. Does the F35 have some additional armor available? Does it already have entered service in the US? I see, the A-10 is used in Iraq today.

 

[DrainBamage]

No armor, A-10 is the only armored aircraft and it needs to be because it is slow and vulnerable. Armoring a plane was a very 1970s concept when to accurately hit it's targets it needed to be low/slow enough to visually see them.

Today planes can fly higher and use better sensors to locate targets. They can use stabilized zoomed IR cameras, laser rangefinders, synthetic aperture radar, and of course targeting info provided to them by forces on the ground.

 

[Bleipriester]

No armor, A-10 is the only armored aircraft and it needs to be because it is slow and vulnerable. Armoring a plane was a very 1970s concept when to accurately hit it's targets it needed to be low/slow enough to visually see them.

Today planes can fly higher and use better sensors to locate targets. They can use stabilized zoomed IR cameras, laser rangefinders, synthetic aperture radar, and of course targeting info provided to them by forces on the ground.

No doubt they can do but this does not make the F35 a good CAS plane.

Imagine the US gets involved in a real war again. Like in Iraq 2003, most sorties will be CAS sorties. The war could last for years and the warparties will eventually run out of the expensive smartbombs they have wasted on large troop contingents while a simple gravity bomb would have done the same damage.
Wouldn´t you agree that the A-10, one of the cheapest aircraft regarding cost per hour and nevertheless celebrated by the ground troops for its excellent performance, would be of major importance, while the F35 would not only lack of smartbombs but would also be needed to counter the enemy airforce?