Recalling Ruby Ridge

[xotoxi]

August 21, 1992 - George H.W. Bush was still in office.

But Clinton was soon to be elected, so he probably had something to do with it.

 

[Luissa]

We have a lot of family in Northern Idaho. Actually Rod's cousin was a mayor up there for quite a few years. I made a comment about all the skinheads one day when we stopped in to see him. He was at the fire station when we found him doing some stuff. If you think for one moment that law enforcement has the right to shoot someone based on a warrant someone has for not going to court, you do not deserve the freedom this country is supposed to have. Tell me you do not know anyone that does pot, owns a gun, has never had a ticket or something along those lines. If you can say all the people you know are perfect people I will be amazed.

I have been arrested for possesion of marijuana, I also didn't fight when they arrested me and I showed up for my court dates.
I also had to spend two hours in lock down at my high school when some north idaho wacko's shot up a bank near my school as a decoy. They also blanketed my school with fliers denoucing minorities.
And if the person who missed their court date does not come out on their own free will, and locks themself up in their cabins with enough weapons to supply a small militia then they are the only ones to blame when the FBI takes matters into their owns hands. They had plenty of opportunties to prevent the stand off and at any time they could have put their weapons down and came out on their own.
And you may know someone who lives up there but you don't have to deal with these wacko's on a regular basis but you might because they like travel when going on killing sprees.

 

[RodISHI]

We were down there in the Everglades after Andrew. That one did leave a huge mess. I recall the news reports from down there, messy.

 

[Modbert]

Speaking of Waco, I don't believe for one minute that this guy was innocent:

David Koresh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He probably had a couple screws loose from his very early childhood.

However:

When he was 19, Koresh had an affair with a 15-year-old girl who became pregnant.[1]

Lois Roden died in 1986. Up until then Koresh had been teaching that monogamy was the only way to live,but he suddenly announced that polygamy was allowed for him. In March 1986, Koresh first slept with Karen Doyle, aged 14.[5] He claimed her as his second wife. In August 1986, Koresh began secretly sleeping with Michele Jones, his wife's younger 12-year-old sister. In September 1986 Koresh began to preach that he was entitled to 140 wives, 60 women as his "queens" and 80 as concubines, which he based upon his interpretation of the Biblical Song of Solomon.[4] Koresh then built up an entirely new theology around his "marriage" to Doyle. This theology was called the "New Light," with a doctrine of polygamy for himself, which he called "The House of David." According to this doctrine, Doyle was supposed to have a daughter named Shoshanna who would then be married to Koresh's firstborn son Cyrus. However, Doyle failed to conceive, so Koresh then transferred his attention to his wife's sister. Former Davidian David Bunds said that Koresh's doctrine of polygamy "rose out of his deep desire to have sex with young girls. Once he was able to convince himself that it was God's will then he was able to be free of guilt and have sex with as many young girls as he could get his hands on

When deputy sheriffs arrived, they found Koresh and six followers firing their rifles at Roden, who was also armed. Roden had already suffered a minor gunshot wound and was pinned down behind a tree at the Compound. The sheriff called into the chapel by telephone and talked Koresh into surrender.[6] As a result of the incident, Koresh and his followers were charged with attempted murder. At the trial, Koresh testified that he went to Mount Carmel to uncover evidence of corpse abuse by George Roden. Koresh's followers were acquitted, and in Koresh's case a mistrial was declared.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koresh#Accusations_of_child_abuse_and_statutory_rape

 

[RodISHI]

Luissa: It is very, very, ignorant to think a former Green Beret that takes his family to live in the back country because they are sick of the corruption deserves his family to be slaughtered like animals.

Here's some background;

THE RANDY WEAVER CASE
BY JIM OLIVER
Another Federal Fiasco!

BATF's entrapment of Randy Weaver led to the violent deaths of three people. Says his defense attorney, Gerry Spence: "What happened to Randy Weaver can happen to anybody in this country."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seeing his dog, Striker, shot to death by masked intruders clad in camouflage, Sammy Weaver, 14, fired back in fear for his life. The 4 ft., 11" tall youngster was hit in the arm, then shot in the back as he turned to run for home. He died instantly, killed by an agent of the federal government.

Cradling her 10-month-old daughter in her arms, Vicki Weaver stood in the doorway of her home, mourning her slain son, unaware that she herself had only seconds to live. In an instant a bullet tore into Vicki Weaver's face, blew through her jaw and severed her carotid artery. The bullet was fired from 200 yds. away by an agent of the federal government.

What had the Weaver family done to bring FBI snipers and submachine- gun-toting U.S. marshals to the woods around their cabin on Ruby Ridge in northern Idaho? Why did the government act as though the Weavers had forfeited the protections guaranteed all Americans by the United States Constitution? Who made the decisions that led to their unjustified deaths and also to the death of deputy U.S. Marshall William Degan?

For the six men working near Weaver's plywood cabin on Ruby Ridge, Aug. 21, 1992, was another day on a job that had been going on more than 16 months. Their employer, the U.S. government, was spending $13,000 a week, and there had been no end in sight to the work.

The cabin--really a shack--was home to 44-year old former Green Beret Randy Weaver and his family--wife, Vicki; son, Sammy; and daughters, Sara, Rachel and Elisheba. It was also home to their young friend, Kevin Harris. They were subsistence hunters, and tended a garden, putting up vegetables. A generator produced occasional electricity. They had no TV, no radio.

This day there were some new men on the job site not far from the cabin--one, 42-year-old William Degan, had been brought to northern Idaho on special orders. He was to help plan a successful conclusion to the job.

The men in the woods were dressed in their work clothes--camouflage commando outfits complete with masks. They carried the tools of their trade--two-way radios rigged for quiet operation, night vision equipment, semi-automatic handguns, fully automatic military rifles and at least one silenced HK submachine gun. One of the men was a medic, prepared to care for any casualties.

The weaver family had dogs. Somebody threw a rock to test their reaction. A golden retriever barked near the cabin and came running their way. A mission somebody in the Marshal Service had dubbed "Operation Northern Exposure" was about to end.

The "op" had included use of jet reconnaissance overflights with aerial photographic analysis by the Defense Mapping Agency, and placement of high-resolution video equipment recording activity by the Weaver family from sites 1 1/2 miles away--160 hours worth of tape used.

For nearly a year and a half, federal agents had roamed the area, picking locations for surveillance and for snipers. Degan, belonged to the Special Operations Group, the Marshals' national SWAT team. The six on-site this day were deputy U.S. Marshals.

The target of all of this--and of a Federal law enforcement and prosecution effort that would eventually total approximately $3 million--was Randy Weaver. What kind of criminal was he to demand this kind of attention? Was he a major drug dealer? Serial killer? Was he a terrorist bomber?

No. On Oct. 24, 1989, Weaver sold two shotguns whose barrels arguably measured 1/4 inch less than the 18 inch length determined arbitrarily by Congress to be legal. The H&R single-barrel 12-ga. and Remington pump were sold to a good friend who instructed Weaver to shorten the barrels. The "good friend" was an undercover informant working for the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (BATF), who later told reporters he was in it "mainly for the excitement."

Eight months after he sold the shotguns, Weaver was approached by two BATF agents with an offer--spy on the Aryan Nations, a white supremacist hate group head-quartered in northern Idaho, or go to jail. Weaver refused to become a government informer, and--six months later--he was indicted on the shotgun charge.

On Jan. 17, 1991, as Weaver and his wife were driving to town for supplies, they encountered a pickup truck-camper with its hood up, a man and woman seeming to be in trouble. The Weavers stopped to offer their help. A horde of federal agents piled out of the camper. A pistol was pressed against Weaver's neck. Vicki Weaver was thrown to the slushy ground.

Weaver was arraigned before a federal magistrate, who later admitted he cited the wrong law. Out on bond, Weaver went back to his cabin. According to friends who testified in court, he and his wife vowed not to have any more dealings with the courts of the federal government. They would just stay on their mountain.

A hearing was set on the shotgun matter for Federal Court in Moscow, Idaho. The government notified Weaver by letter that he was to appear March 20, 1991. The actual hearing was held February 20--one month earlier. The error in dates was enough to give rise to a memo within the Marshal Service saying the case would be a washout. (Weaver did not show for the wrong date, either.) U.S. Attorney Ron Howen went to the grand jury anyway, and Weaver was indicted for failure to appear.

But why had the BATF picked Randy Weaver to set up as an informer? He was a man devoted to family, a man with no criminal record, a veteran who served his country with honor. It was Weaver's beliefs that made him an ideal target. His unorthodox religious and political views were far outside mainstream America. He was a white separatist. And, Randy Weaver was little, a nobody.

Over the next 16 months, the feds painted Weaver as racist, as anti-semitic, as a criminal. But they had to entrap him into his only crime, altering two guns. The media were unquestioning. In print and on TV and radio, Weaver's home--the plywood shack he built himself--became a "mountain fortress," and then "a bunker," and a stronghold protected by a cache of 15 weapons and ammunition capable of piercing armored personnel carriers."

The common shotguns Weaver sold became the chosen "weapons of drug dealers and terrorists" or "gangster weapons" that "have no sporting use." The media always added the universal out... "agents said." But there were no gangsters. There were no terrorists or drug dealers, just Weaver, the gun buyer and the government.

It was all a lie. Hate-hype. People believed it, maybe even the agents who planted the hate-hype began to believe it. It all ceased to matter on August 21, when Striker barked and sniffed out the agents spying on the cabin--lives changed, lives ended.

Nobody, except the people who were there, knows exactly what happened next. There were several versions of the story. But some facts jibe. Randy Weaver's little boy, Sammy--a kid whose voice hadn't yet changed--and Kevin Harris followed Striker. Harris and Weaver later said they thought the dog was chasing a deer. Harris carried a bolt-action hunting rifle. The boy also had a gun.

Without warning a federal agent fired a burst into Striker, killing him. (It came out in court later that there had been a plan to take the dog "out of the equation.") The boy, frightened, shot back, and when one of the agents fired another burst, Sammy lay dead.

Kevin Harris shot deputy William Degan in the chest. He died a few moments later. The shooting ended relatively quickly. The agents would claim Harris fired first. Harris claimed he fired after the boy was shot. Agents told the media their men had been pinned down for eight hours. It was a lie.

The dog was dead. The boy was dead. Deputy Degan was dead. Two American families had tragically lost loved-ones. During the night hours, Randy Weaver and Kevin Harris brought the little boy's body to a shed near the cabin and washed it.

Deputy Degan's shooting brought in the FBI. Soon, the Weaver property was ringed by a huge force of FBI, BATF, U.S. Marshals, Idaho state police and local law enforcement and Idaho National Guard.

Among the federal law enforcement commanders was Richard Rogers, the head of the FBI's hostage rescue team, which includes its snipers. On the flight out, he took an extraordinary step--he decided to alter radically the prescribed rules of engagement of FBI sharpshooters.

Normally, agents can only shoot when they are facing death or grievous harm. But 11 snipers that were positioned around the Weaver cabin were given new ordrs:

"If any adult in the compound is observed with a weapon after the surrender announcement is made, deadly force can and should be employed to neutralize the individual." This meant Randy Weaver's wife would be fair game. It went on:

"If any adult male is observed with a weapon prior to the announcement, deadly force can and should be employed if the shot can be taken without endangering the children."

Of words reminiscent of hollow justifications used in Waco, Texas, federal spokesmen kept telling the media of their concern for the children. In fact, Gene Glenn, the agent in charge of the siege, told The New York Times he considered the kids to be hostages. Yet they'd already killed one child.

The negotiators were not in place, and no effort had been made to contact the Weavers, when Randy Weaver, Kevin Harris--armed-- and 16-year-old Sara Weaver left the cabin and moved to the shed where Sam's body lay.

As the three reached the shed, an FBI sniper some 200 yds. away aimed at Weaver. He told the court he was aiming for the spine, just below the neck. He missed; shot Weaver in the back of the arm, the bullet exiting through the armpit.

Sara later told Spokesman Review staff writer Jess Walter in a copyrighted story:

"I ran up to my dad and tried to shield him and pushed him toward the house. If they were going to shoot someone, I was going to make them shoot a kid."

At the cabin, Vicki Weaver was waiting at the door, holding her infant daughter, Elisheba. The sniper fired again. His bullet hit Vicki Weaver. She was dead before the baby hit the floor, miraculously unhurt. Harris was hit by bullet fragments and bone from Vicki's skull. He was bleeding badly. Randy Weaver, daughters Sara and 10-year-old Rachel all saw the violent death.

Later, sniper Lon Horiuchi stated in court that killing Vicki Weaver had been a mistake; that he was aiming for Kevin Harris. Defense attorney Spence asked him, "You wanted to kill him, didn't you?" He answered, "Yes, sir."

Sara Weaver recounted the night following her mother's death. Again from reporter Jess Walter's story:

"Elisheba cried during the night. She was saying, 'Mama, mama, mama.'... Dad was crying and saying, 'I know baby. I know baby. Your Mama's gone....'"

She told Walters that on Sunday, they tried to yell at federal agents and get their attention, to tell them that her mother was dead. She said they got no resopnse. Instead they would her the FBI negotiators.

"They'd come on real late at night and say, 'Come out and talk to us, Mrs. Weaver. How's the baby, Mrs. Weaver,' in a real smart-alecky voice. Or they'd say, 'Good morning, Randall. How'd you sleep? We're having pancakes. What are you having?"

The FBI later claimed it had no idea that its sniper had shot Vicki Weaver. Yet a New York Times stringer quoted FBI sources as saying they were "using a listening device that allow(ed) them to hear conversations, and even the baby's cries in the cabin." Another lie?





More here....
Remembering Ruby Ridge, FBI Murder of Weaver Family (8/21) : Indybay

 

[Ryan]

BTW the foolish operation cost the tax payers over $3,100,000 just in settling the case with Randy and his children. So either the jury was made up of Weaver's pals or there was enough for a jury that disagrees with the rest of enlighted people of Idaho.

 

[Luissa]

Luissa: It is very, very, ignorant to think a former Green Beret that takes his family to live in the back country because they are sick of the corruption deserves his family to be slaughtered like animals.

Here's some background;

THE RANDY WEAVER CASE
BY JIM OLIVER
Another Federal Fiasco!

BATF's entrapment of Randy Weaver led to the violent deaths of three people. Says his defense attorney, Gerry Spence: "What happened to Randy Weaver can happen to anybody in this country."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seeing his dog, Striker, shot to death by masked intruders clad in camouflage, Sammy Weaver, 14, fired back in fear for his life. The 4 ft., 11" tall youngster was hit in the arm, then shot in the back as he turned to run for home. He died instantly, killed by an agent of the federal government.

Cradling her 10-month-old daughter in her arms, Vicki Weaver stood in the doorway of her home, mourning her slain son, unaware that she herself had only seconds to live. In an instant a bullet tore into Vicki Weaver's face, blew through her jaw and severed her carotid artery. The bullet was fired from 200 yds. away by an agent of the federal government.

What had the Weaver family done to bring FBI snipers and submachine- gun-toting U.S. marshals to the woods around their cabin on Ruby Ridge in northern Idaho? Why did the government act as though the Weavers had forfeited the protections guaranteed all Americans by the United States Constitution? Who made the decisions that led to their unjustified deaths and also to the death of deputy U.S. Marshall William Degan?

For the six men working near Weaver's plywood cabin on Ruby Ridge, Aug. 21, 1992, was another day on a job that had been going on more than 16 months. Their employer, the U.S. government, was spending $13,000 a week, and there had been no end in sight to the work.

The cabin--really a shack--was home to 44-year old former Green Beret Randy Weaver and his family--wife, Vicki; son, Sammy; and daughters, Sara, Rachel and Elisheba. It was also home to their young friend, Kevin Harris. They were subsistence hunters, and tended a garden, putting up vegetables. A generator produced occasional electricity. They had no TV, no radio.

This day there were some new men on the job site not far from the cabin--one, 42-year-old William Degan, had been brought to northern Idaho on special orders. He was to help plan a successful conclusion to the job.

The men in the woods were dressed in their work clothes--camouflage commando outfits complete with masks. They carried the tools of their trade--two-way radios rigged for quiet operation, night vision equipment, semi-automatic handguns, fully automatic military rifles and at least one silenced HK submachine gun. One of the men was a medic, prepared to care for any casualties.

The weaver family had dogs. Somebody threw a rock to test their reaction. A golden retriever barked near the cabin and came running their way. A mission somebody in the Marshal Service had dubbed "Operation Northern Exposure" was about to end.

The "op" had included use of jet reconnaissance overflights with aerial photographic analysis by the Defense Mapping Agency, and placement of high-resolution video equipment recording activity by the Weaver family from sites 1 1/2 miles away--160 hours worth of tape used.

For nearly a year and a half, federal agents had roamed the area, picking locations for surveillance and for snipers. Degan, belonged to the Special Operations Group, the Marshals' national SWAT team. The six on-site this day were deputy U.S. Marshals.

The target of all of this--and of a Federal law enforcement and prosecution effort that would eventually total approximately $3 million--was Randy Weaver. What kind of criminal was he to demand this kind of attention? Was he a major drug dealer? Serial killer? Was he a terrorist bomber?

No. On Oct. 24, 1989, Weaver sold two shotguns whose barrels arguably measured 1/4 inch less than the 18 inch length determined arbitrarily by Congress to be legal. The H&R single-barrel 12-ga. and Remington pump were sold to a good friend who instructed Weaver to shorten the barrels. The "good friend" was an undercover informant working for the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (BATF), who later told reporters he was in it "mainly for the excitement."

Eight months after he sold the shotguns, Weaver was approached by two BATF agents with an offer--spy on the Aryan Nations, a white supremacist hate group head-quartered in northern Idaho, or go to jail. Weaver refused to become a government informer, and--six months later--he was indicted on the shotgun charge.

On Jan. 17, 1991, as Weaver and his wife were driving to town for supplies, they encountered a pickup truck-camper with its hood up, a man and woman seeming to be in trouble. The Weavers stopped to offer their help. A horde of federal agents piled out of the camper. A pistol was pressed against Weaver's neck. Vicki Weaver was thrown to the slushy ground.

Weaver was arraigned before a federal magistrate, who later admitted he cited the wrong law. Out on bond, Weaver went back to his cabin. According to friends who testified in court, he and his wife vowed not to have any more dealings with the courts of the federal government. They would just stay on their mountain.

A hearing was set on the shotgun matter for Federal Court in Moscow, Idaho. The government notified Weaver by letter that he was to appear March 20, 1991. The actual hearing was held February 20--one month earlier. The error in dates was enough to give rise to a memo within the Marshal Service saying the case would be a washout. (Weaver did not show for the wrong date, either.) U.S. Attorney Ron Howen went to the grand jury anyway, and Weaver was indicted for failure to appear.

But why had the BATF picked Randy Weaver to set up as an informer? He was a man devoted to family, a man with no criminal record, a veteran who served his country with honor. It was Weaver's beliefs that made him an ideal target. His unorthodox religious and political views were far outside mainstream America. He was a white separatist. And, Randy Weaver was little, a nobody.

Over the next 16 months, the feds painted Weaver as racist, as anti-semitic, as a criminal. But they had to entrap him into his only crime, altering two guns. The media were unquestioning. In print and on TV and radio, Weaver's home--the plywood shack he built himself--became a "mountain fortress," and then "a bunker," and a stronghold protected by a cache of 15 weapons and ammunition capable of piercing armored personnel carriers."

The common shotguns Weaver sold became the chosen "weapons of drug dealers and terrorists" or "gangster weapons" that "have no sporting use." The media always added the universal out... "agents said." But there were no gangsters. There were no terrorists or drug dealers, just Weaver, the gun buyer and the government.

It was all a lie. Hate-hype. People believed it, maybe even the agents who planted the hate-hype began to believe it. It all ceased to matter on August 21, when Striker barked and sniffed out the agents spying on the cabin--lives changed, lives ended.

Nobody, except the people who were there, knows exactly what happened next. There were several versions of the story. But some facts jibe. Randy Weaver's little boy, Sammy--a kid whose voice hadn't yet changed--and Kevin Harris followed Striker. Harris and Weaver later said they thought the dog was chasing a deer. Harris carried a bolt-action hunting rifle. The boy also had a gun.

Without warning a federal agent fired a burst into Striker, killing him. (It came out in court later that there had been a plan to take the dog "out of the equation.") The boy, frightened, shot back, and when one of the agents fired another burst, Sammy lay dead.

Kevin Harris shot deputy William Degan in the chest. He died a few moments later. The shooting ended relatively quickly. The agents would claim Harris fired first. Harris claimed he fired after the boy was shot. Agents told the media their men had been pinned down for eight hours. It was a lie.

The dog was dead. The boy was dead. Deputy Degan was dead. Two American families had tragically lost loved-ones. During the night hours, Randy Weaver and Kevin Harris brought the little boy's body to a shed near the cabin and washed it.

Deputy Degan's shooting brought in the FBI. Soon, the Weaver property was ringed by a huge force of FBI, BATF, U.S. Marshals, Idaho state police and local law enforcement and Idaho National Guard.

Among the federal law enforcement commanders was Richard Rogers, the head of the FBI's hostage rescue team, which includes its snipers. On the flight out, he took an extraordinary step--he decided to alter radically the prescribed rules of engagement of FBI sharpshooters.

Normally, agents can only shoot when they are facing death or grievous harm. But 11 snipers that were positioned around the Weaver cabin were given new ordrs:

"If any adult in the compound is observed with a weapon after the surrender announcement is made, deadly force can and should be employed to neutralize the individual." This meant Randy Weaver's wife would be fair game. It went on:

"If any adult male is observed with a weapon prior to the announcement, deadly force can and should be employed if the shot can be taken without endangering the children."

Of words reminiscent of hollow justifications used in Waco, Texas, federal spokesmen kept telling the media of their concern for the children. In fact, Gene Glenn, the agent in charge of the siege, told The New York Times he considered the kids to be hostages. Yet they'd already killed one child.

The negotiators were not in place, and no effort had been made to contact the Weavers, when Randy Weaver, Kevin Harris--armed-- and 16-year-old Sara Weaver left the cabin and moved to the shed where Sam's body lay.

As the three reached the shed, an FBI sniper some 200 yds. away aimed at Weaver. He told the court he was aiming for the spine, just below the neck. He missed; shot Weaver in the back of the arm, the bullet exiting through the armpit.

Sara later told Spokesman Review staff writer Jess Walter in a copyrighted story:

"I ran up to my dad and tried to shield him and pushed him toward the house. If they were going to shoot someone, I was going to make them shoot a kid."

At the cabin, Vicki Weaver was waiting at the door, holding her infant daughter, Elisheba. The sniper fired again. His bullet hit Vicki Weaver. She was dead before the baby hit the floor, miraculously unhurt. Harris was hit by bullet fragments and bone from Vicki's skull. He was bleeding badly. Randy Weaver, daughters Sara and 10-year-old Rachel all saw the violent death.

Later, sniper Lon Horiuchi stated in court that killing Vicki Weaver had been a mistake; that he was aiming for Kevin Harris. Defense attorney Spence asked him, "You wanted to kill him, didn't you?" He answered, "Yes, sir."

Sara Weaver recounted the night following her mother's death. Again from reporter Jess Walter's story:

"Elisheba cried during the night. She was saying, 'Mama, mama, mama.'... Dad was crying and saying, 'I know baby. I know baby. Your Mama's gone....'"

She told Walters that on Sunday, they tried to yell at federal agents and get their attention, to tell them that her mother was dead. She said they got no resopnse. Instead they would her the FBI negotiators.

"They'd come on real late at night and say, 'Come out and talk to us, Mrs. Weaver. How's the baby, Mrs. Weaver,' in a real smart-alecky voice. Or they'd say, 'Good morning, Randall. How'd you sleep? We're having pancakes. What are you having?"

The FBI later claimed it had no idea that its sniper had shot Vicki Weaver. Yet a New York Times stringer quoted FBI sources as saying they were "using a listening device that allow(ed) them to hear conversations, and even the baby's cries in the cabin." Another lie?





More here....
Remembering Ruby Ridge, FBI Murder of Weaver Family (8/21) : Indybay

it is pretty ignorant to stick up for a man who had plenty of opportunity to save his family from being killed.
And I won't ever believe anything Keven Harris has to say, he is a pig who sells meth to high school kids. I don't think it is a considence that the people of ferry county didn't like him much either.

 

[RodISHI]

it is pretty ignorant to stick up for a man who had plenty of opportunity to save his family from being killed.
And I won't ever believe anything Keven Harris has to say, he is a pig who sells meth to high school kids. I don't think it is a considence that the people of ferry county didn't like him much either.

It was not Kevin Harris's family! Idaho prosecutors filed charges against the federal officers for murdering Vicki Weaver. From what you saying here, you believe it was perfectly fine to set up and threaten a man for the federal government can use him to spy on someone else. Then you are saying it is fine to murder his family because he does not trust these bastards who have already shown their willingness to abuse their authority. Yep, down right ignorant.

Testimony of Lon Horiuchi: De fense attorney Spence asked him, "You wanted to kill him, didn't you?" He answered, "Yes, sir."

The jury deliberated for nearly three weeks, and found Harris not guilty of murder or any other charges leveled against him. They found Weaver not guilty of eight federal felony counts. The judge had earlier thrown out two other counts.

Weaver was found guilty of two counts: failing to appear in court and violating his bail conditions. He was declared not guilty of the gun charge--the seed of all this misery.

The government spent days going over the Weavers' religious views, trying to establish they were racist and demonstrated a long-lived conspiracy to violently confront the government. The jury didn't believe it.

During the trial, the government admitted that the FBI had tampered with the evidence;

 

[William Joyce]

Bottom line is that FEDGOV is not going to allow whites to live independent lives. They will shoot on sight if we attempt that. Remember what Thomas Jefferson had to say about that.

 

[paperview]

Bottom line is that FEDGOV is not going to allow whites to live independent lives. They will shoot on sight if we attempt that. Remember what Thomas Jefferson had to say about that.

Yeah, since ole Jeffy's time, that's happened a lot.

 

[Missourian]

Bottom line is that FEDGOV is not going to allow whites to live independent lives. They will shoot on sight if we attempt that. Remember what Thomas Jefferson had to say about that.

Yeah, since ole Jeffy's time, that's happened a lot.

I agree...time to get rid of that antiquated wall between church and state business.

 

[Polk]

yeah actually they were, he was suppose to show up in court and he didn't show, why do you think they went up there in the first place.

Facts? Who needs facts.

 

[Polk]

The lesson of Ruby Ridge: Opening fire on federal agents is a good way to get your ass killed.