Reasons for Abortion

[SaxxyBlues]

It's just easier to do away with the procedure than address the problems. Qucker

This is not an "either or"

I see no reason why society should not do BOTH.

I'd love to see your make on some solutions to the underlying problems.

That would be a lot easier to do with abortion being banned.

It is useless to try to educate people about why they should keep their children and not kill them while providing the means (and easier path) to kill them anyway.

Can people now expect to be educated by a rank stranger from society. In other words who are you to educated me, or anyone else?

 

[buttercup]

SaxxyBlues - This may sound unrealistic, but I think what needs to change is a person's entire outlook. We all have been brainwashed, especially young people, and obviously what we have been indoctrinated to believe does not work. It doesn't work for numerous reasons. It is damaging in numerous ways.

I want to share an audio that I've shared before, but I really think EVERYONE should hear it. She brings up so many excellent points, and it really comes down to our entire way of looking at these things.

Here it is: http://jenniferfulwiler.com/wp-cont...ulwiler-pro-choice-to-pro-life-conversion.mp3

(And if anyone listens to it and dismisses it based on her religion... I want to say, I don't agree with her religion, but what she is saying is undeniable. It needs to be considered from a standpoint of what is WISE and what actually works. Again, the way we've been doing things simply does not work. It is selfish, irresponsible, and whether one realizes it or not, it is just plain wrong.)

 

[Penelope]

Not all women have access to birth control. And some can not take it at all. One thing we all could do is push for IUD's for women in late teens and early twenties. Put some options out there, make them easy to obtain. As far as women's reasons being selfish and a child was an inconvenience, surely the people that deplore abortion and say that it is murder, are god fearing. Does not your faith tell you it's in God's hands, not yours? And if you are not god fearing why exactly do you care in the first place?

They don't want to be bothered to think about why women and teens get abortions, they can't be bothered to think.

They are not pro life, they are just pro fetus, once its out then they could careless.

 

[Penelope]

In other words, a child may be an inconvenience. Tough shit. Murder should not be a remedy. We live in a time where you can have sex to your heart's content and not get pregnant. We have birth CONTROL pills, IUD's, condoms, the day after pill. If you get pregnant in this day an age, it is your fault.
Killing a child because you are irresponsible should not be an option:
View attachment 248420

All of that costs money, and health care. So once again your are not pro life.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Not all women have access to birth control. And some can not take it at all. One thing we all could do is push for IUD's for women in late teens and early twenties. Put some options out there, make them easy to obtain. As far as women's reasons being selfish and a child was an inconvenience, surely the people that deplore abortion and say that it is murder, are god fearing. Does not your faith tell you it's in God's hands, not yours? And if you are not god fearing why exactly do you care in the first place?

They don't want to be bothered to think about why women and teens get abortions, they can't be bothered to think.

They are not pro life, they are just pro fetus, once its out then they could careless.

They are pro-authoritarianism, anti-individual liberty.

And if one maintains that abortion is ‘murder’ then he would be in fact wrong.

Murder concerns criminal law, the right to privacy concerns civil law – one having nothing to do with the other.

And given this thread is in the Religion and Ethics forum, it’s to be assumed that the issue of abortion will be addressed in the context of subjective religious beliefs and morals, not in the context of objective Constitutional law.

 

[ding]

Not all women have access to birth control. And some can not take it at all. One thing we all could do is push for IUD's for women in late teens and early twenties. Put some options out there, make them easy to obtain. As far as women's reasons being selfish and a child was an inconvenience, surely the people that deplore abortion and say that it is murder, are god fearing. Does not your faith tell you it's in God's hands, not yours? And if you are not god fearing why exactly do you care in the first place?

They don't want to be bothered to think about why women and teens get abortions, they can't be bothered to think.

They are not pro life, they are just pro fetus, once its out then they could careless.

They are pro-authoritarianism, anti-individual liberty.

And if one maintains that abortion is ‘murder’ then he would be in fact wrong.

Murder concerns criminal law, the right to privacy concerns civil law – one having nothing to do with the other.

And given this thread is in the Religion and Ethics forum, it’s to be assumed that the issue of abortion will be addressed in the context of subjective religious beliefs and morals, not in the context of objective Constitutional law.

At conception a new genetically distinct human being has come into existence. This is not conjecture. It is scientific fact.

As such this human life has an inalienable right to life. It’s the freaking basis of the constitution.

To see it any other way is to treat human life as chattel. We’ve already been through that before and determined that was illegal.

 

[task0778]

Not all women have access to birth control. And some can not take it at all. One thing we all could do is push for IUD's for women in late teens and early twenties. Put some options out there, make them easy to obtain. As far as women's reasons being selfish and a child was an inconvenience, surely the people that deplore abortion and say that it is murder, are god fearing. Does not your faith tell you it's in God's hands, not yours? And if you are not god fearing why exactly do you care in the first place?

One need not be God-fearing to value the sanctity of life, or are you implying that morality is impossible for atheists? This issue is not necessarily one of faith, it's one of personal irresponsibility.

 

[ding]

Pro abortion proponents need to make abortion about religion because they have no valid scientific or legal argument.

 

[SaxxyBlues]

Not all women have access to birth control. And some can not take it at all. One thing we all could do is push for IUD's for women in late teens and early twenties. Put some options out there, make them easy to obtain. As far as women's reasons being selfish and a child was an inconvenience, surely the people that deplore abortion and say that it is murder, are god fearing. Does not your faith tell you it's in God's hands, not yours? And if you are not god fearing why exactly do you care in the first place?

One need not be God-fearing to value the sanctity of life, or are you implying that morality is impossible for atheists? This issue is not necessarily one of faith, it's one of personal irresponsibility.

Like I say we live our lives, and shit happens. Is that what you think did it? Irresponsiibility. Any way it could be bad circumstance? Women breaking a pattern of abuse.

 

[Chuz Life]

It's just easier to do away with the procedure than address the problems. Qucker

This is not an "either or"

I see no reason why society should not do BOTH.

I'd love to see your make on some solutions to the underlying problems.

That would be a lot easier to do with abortion being banned.

It is useless to try to educate people about why they should keep their children and not kill them while providing the means (and easier path) to kill them anyway.

Can people now expect to be educated by a rank stranger from society. In other words who are you to educated me, or anyone else?

I'm just a messenger.

If you have a problem with what I say is the truth, facts, etc. You are welcome to prove me wrong.

Or, you can always choose the path of ignorance too.

 

[SweetSue92]

Reason against abortion: a human life is terminated. Whether it is unborn or not is beside the point. Look at the reasons stated in the link:

RESULTS: The reasons most frequently cited were that having a child would interfere with a woman’s education, work or ability to care for dependents (74%); that she could not afford a baby now (73%); and that she did not want to be a single mother or was having relationship problems (48%). Nearly four in 10 women said they had completed their childbearing, and almost one-third were not ready to have a child. Fewer than 1% said their parents’ or partners’ desire for them to have an abortion was the most important reason. Younger women often reported that they were unprepared for the transition to motherhood, while older women regularly cited their responsibility to dependents.


Well, here's a thought: why don't you keep your God damn legs together, or use a CONTRACEPTIVE? I get the argument for rape, incest, and the mother's health, but this shit? Haughty? Proud? Hardly. Sad is more like it, I wonder how many women regret that decision later in life. More than a few, I'd bet.

Why don't women have something put on boys dicks at puberty to make it impossible to insert it into a cervix? until the marriage night.

Inserting a penis INTO A CERVIX would be extremely painful and, I think, almost impossible.

 

[SweetSue92]

In other words, a child may be an inconvenience. Tough shit. Murder should not be a remedy. We live in a time where you can have sex to your heart's content and not get pregnant. We have birth CONTROL pills, IUD's, condoms, the day after pill. If you get pregnant in this day an age, it is your fault.
Killing a child because you are irresponsible should not be an option:
View attachment 248420

That's a lovely photo but if that late-term baby is not head-down at that stage, mom is almost certainly headed for a C section. Kinda ruins the photo, I know, but most babies are pressing their downy little heads right on the cervix at that point, right moms?

 

[SweetSue92]

Are we addressing the reasons women have abortions? I hear and read a lot of attacks on women and the medical procedure but, no solutions to the reasons that women choose to end their pregnancy. It seems most people want a quick end to abortion without getting their hands dirty. Quick, fast and friendly, do away with the medical procedure.

Here are the top reasons according to Guttmacher:

https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/journals/3711005.pdf

And I wonder, you know, what goes through women's mind the 30 minutes they rest after having an abortion by vacuum aspiration? Do they feel remorse, do they tell themselves never again, do they lay there and think how they wish people would attack the underlying cause instead of the person? Do they feel guilt? Do they talk to God? Do they accept the fact that now, is society, you became a person others look down on? And what about the afterlife, do they wonder if that is screwed up to?

How haughty and proud the na sayers are. Have you ever addressed the underlying reasons? Or is it easier to beat the walls down?

Maybe people don't want to be responsible for caring for their aging parents. So what then? Is it then okay to off them--to murder them? Would it be okay if the daughter laid on her bed after offing her aging parents and ruminated how our society doesn't ever think about the "underlying reasons" why someone would want to off their aging parents, like there's not enough support, there's not enough money, there's not enough time?

I'm asking you if it is SOCIETY'S problem that the woman made the choice to off her parents. Is it?

 

[Penelope]

Reason against abortion: a human life is terminated. Whether it is unborn or not is beside the point. Look at the reasons stated in the link:

RESULTS: The reasons most frequently cited were that having a child would interfere with a woman’s education, work or ability to care for dependents (74%); that she could not afford a baby now (73%); and that she did not want to be a single mother or was having relationship problems (48%). Nearly four in 10 women said they had completed their childbearing, and almost one-third were not ready to have a child. Fewer than 1% said their parents’ or partners’ desire for them to have an abortion was the most important reason. Younger women often reported that they were unprepared for the transition to motherhood, while older women regularly cited their responsibility to dependents.


Well, here's a thought: why don't you keep your God damn legs together, or use a CONTRACEPTIVE? I get the argument for rape, incest, and the mother's health, but this shit? Haughty? Proud? Hardly. Sad is more like it, I wonder how many women regret that decision later in life. More than a few, I'd bet.

Why don't women have something put on boys dicks at puberty to make it impossible to insert it into a cervix? until the marriage night.

Inserting a penis INTO A CERVIX would be extremely painful and, I think, almost impossible.

You are correct, I meant vagina.

 

[Penelope]

In other words, a child may be an inconvenience. Tough shit. Murder should not be a remedy. We live in a time where you can have sex to your heart's content and not get pregnant. We have birth CONTROL pills, IUD's, condoms, the day after pill. If you get pregnant in this day an age, it is your fault.
Killing a child because you are irresponsible should not be an option:
View attachment 248420

Well if you don't like abortion do something about the reasons.

Every one of those reasons can be dealt with, with a little pill. I can't make them swallow it. The responsibility lies with the woman contemplating sex.
Here is a thought, stop inviting Planned Parenthood into our schools to extol the virtue of abortions, and teach our children responsibility for their own bodies...

Do you have a link for when PP went into a school to address abortions? I wasn't aware they go to school to discuss having an abortion.

 

[ding]

In other words, a child may be an inconvenience. Tough shit. Murder should not be a remedy. We live in a time where you can have sex to your heart's content and not get pregnant. We have birth CONTROL pills, IUD's, condoms, the day after pill. If you get pregnant in this day an age, it is your fault.
Killing a child because you are irresponsible should not be an option:
View attachment 248420

Well if you don't like abortion do something about the reasons.

Every one of those reasons can be dealt with, with a little pill. I can't make them swallow it. The responsibility lies with the woman contemplating sex.
Here is a thought, stop inviting Planned Parenthood into our schools to extol the virtue of abortions, and teach our children responsibility for their own bodies...

Do you have a link for when PP went into a school to address abortions? I wasn't aware they go to school to discuss having an abortion.

Did you know that PP's founder believed abortion was an abomination and wouldn't allow them to be performed in her clinics?

 

[Penelope]

In other words, a child may be an inconvenience. Tough shit. Murder should not be a remedy. We live in a time where you can have sex to your heart's content and not get pregnant. We have birth CONTROL pills, IUD's, condoms, the day after pill. If you get pregnant in this day an age, it is your fault.
Killing a child because you are irresponsible should not be an option:
View attachment 248420

Well if you don't like abortion do something about the reasons.

Every one of those reasons can be dealt with, with a little pill. I can't make them swallow it. The responsibility lies with the woman contemplating sex.
Here is a thought, stop inviting Planned Parenthood into our schools to extol the virtue of abortions, and teach our children responsibility for their own bodies...

Do you have a link for when PP went into a school to address abortions? I wasn't aware they go to school to discuss having an abortion.

Did you know that PP's founder believed abortion was an abomination and wouldn't allow them to be performed in her clinics?

Yes , as prevention is a lot better than abortion isn't it.
You might want to read about Eugenics in the USA:

In 1907, Indiana passed the first eugenics-based compulsory sterilization law in the world. Thirty U.S. states would soon follow their lead.[55][56] Although the law was overturned by the Indiana Supreme Court in 1921,[57] the U.S. Supreme Court, in Buck v. Bell, upheld the constitutionality of the Virginia Sterilization Act of 1924, allowing for the compulsory sterilization of patients of state mental institutions in 1927.[58]
Eugenics in the United States - Wikipedia

 

[ding]

In other words, a child may be an inconvenience. Tough shit. Murder should not be a remedy. We live in a time where you can have sex to your heart's content and not get pregnant. We have birth CONTROL pills, IUD's, condoms, the day after pill. If you get pregnant in this day an age, it is your fault.
Killing a child because you are irresponsible should not be an option:
View attachment 248420

Well if you don't like abortion do something about the reasons.

Every one of those reasons can be dealt with, with a little pill. I can't make them swallow it. The responsibility lies with the woman contemplating sex.
Here is a thought, stop inviting Planned Parenthood into our schools to extol the virtue of abortions, and teach our children responsibility for their own bodies...

Do you have a link for when PP went into a school to address abortions? I wasn't aware they go to school to discuss having an abortion.

Did you know that PP's founder believed abortion was an abomination and wouldn't allow them to be performed in her clinics?

Yes , as prevention is a lot better than abortion isn't it.
You might want to read about Eugenics in the USA:

In 1907, Indiana passed the first eugenics-based compulsory sterilization law in the world. Thirty U.S. states would soon follow their lead.[55][56] Although the law was overturned by the Indiana Supreme Court in 1921,[57] the U.S. Supreme Court, in Buck v. Bell, upheld the constitutionality of the Virginia Sterilization Act of 1924, allowing for the compulsory sterilization of patients of state mental institutions in 1927.[58]
Eugenics in the United States - Wikipedia

I am well aware of eugenics although I don’t know what that has to do with it being wrong to end a human life. Are you trying to make a two wrongs makes a right argument?

Sanger believed abortions were an abomination. Why don’t you?

 

[Penelope]

Well if you don't like abortion do something about the reasons.

Every one of those reasons can be dealt with, with a little pill. I can't make them swallow it. The responsibility lies with the woman contemplating sex.
Here is a thought, stop inviting Planned Parenthood into our schools to extol the virtue of abortions, and teach our children responsibility for their own bodies...

Do you have a link for when PP went into a school to address abortions? I wasn't aware they go to school to discuss having an abortion.

Did you know that PP's founder believed abortion was an abomination and wouldn't allow them to be performed in her clinics?

Yes , as prevention is a lot better than abortion isn't it.
You might want to read about Eugenics in the USA:

In 1907, Indiana passed the first eugenics-based compulsory sterilization law in the world. Thirty U.S. states would soon follow their lead.[55][56] Although the law was overturned by the Indiana Supreme Court in 1921,[57] the U.S. Supreme Court, in Buck v. Bell, upheld the constitutionality of the Virginia Sterilization Act of 1924, allowing for the compulsory sterilization of patients of state mental institutions in 1927.[58]
Eugenics in the United States - Wikipedia

I am well aware of eugenics although I don’t know what that has to do with it being wrong to end a human life. Are you trying to make a two wrongs makes a right argument?

Sanger believed abortions were an abomination. Why don’t you?

Please supply a link and not heresy or from a right wing Christian site?

Margaret Sanger, "Abortion in the United States," May 1914.

Published article. Source: The Woman Rebel, Vol. 1, No. 3, May 1914 , 24 , Margaret Sanger Microfilm C16:0538 .



ABORTION IN THE UNITED STATES
It is a well recognized fact that "criminal" abortion prevails to-day to such an extent that it is estimated that one-third of all pregnancies result in criminal abortion.

It is said 100,000 criminal abortions occur each year in the United States and 6,000, at the lowest estimate, die yearly from the direct result of this.

"Criminal" abortions arise from a perverted sex relationship under the stress of economic necessity, and their greatest frequency is among married women.

Prominent authorities claim that criminal abortions are 50 per cent. of all abortions that occur, and this is considered a conservative estimate.

Just why there is such danger in abortions can be readily understood when we realize the process of growth of the embryo. During the first six weeks after conception the ovum becomes implanted in the uterus. The second six weeks is occupied with the formation of the placenta (afterbirth). This is the period when abortion most easily occurs, because of the firmly adhering covering of the embryo to the walls or lining of the uterus.

When instruments are used they often rupture the membrane and the entire placenta may be left, though the foetus comes away. The covering or envelope of the ovum may come away in a shred-like discharge after an abortion, all of which necessitates a careful curettage (or scraping) to avoid resulting conditions of blood-poisoning and disease. Most of the deaths are the result of sepsis (or decay) of some kind. Often the foetus is found macerated (or softened) and the whole region of the reproductive organs is in a highly inflamed condition. Rarely if ever is an abortion complete, and only in a very small percentage, authorities claim, is there reason to believe the ovum is expelled unbroken. Consequently the uterus needs careful investigation after each case of abortion.

When an abortion is properly done by one specialized to do so, the cost is usually tremendous. What a wholesale lot of misery, expense, unhappiness and worry will be avoided when woman shall possess the knowledge of prevention of conception!

In Paris up to a few years ago the instruments to produce abortion were sold openly in the market place, while all the mechanical preventatives were, and are, openly displayed in the windows of the drug stores. Abortions, with their horrible consequences, are quite needless and unnecessary when the subject of preventive means shall be open to all to discuss and use. How soon this shall be, depends on you.
(and)
there is no doubt that women are apt to look upon abortion as of little consequence and to treat it accordingly. An abortion is as important a matter as a confinement and requires as much attention as the birth of a child at its full term.

"The immediate dangers of abortion," says Dr. J. Clifton Edgar, in his book "The Practice of Obstetrics," "are hemhorrage, retention of an adherent placenta, sepsis, tetanus, perforation of the uterus. They also cause sterility, anemia, malignant diseases, displacements, neurosis, and endometritis."

In plain, everyday language, in an abortion there is always a very serious risk to the health and often to the life of the patient.

It is only the women of wealth who can afford to give an abortion proper care and treatment both at the time of the operation and afterwards. These women often escape any serious consequences from its occurrence.

The women whose incomes are limited and who must continue at work before they have recovered from the effects of an abortion are the great army of sufferers. It is among such that the deaths due to abortion usually ensue. It is these, too, who are most often forced to resort to such operations.

The Public Papers of Margaret Sanger: Web Edition

-----------------------------------------
"Now I never read about how abortion were an abomination, but I do read where the push for NO birth controls pill in the US society was an abomination.

Also what she is referring to as "criminal abortions' was that it was a considered a "crime to get an abortion" "me
https://www.nirhealth.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Self-Abortion-White-Paper-Final.pdf

so women tried to abort themselves.-ME.

 

[Penelope]

Although abortion was illegal in almost all circumstances between the mid-1800s and 1973, there were ways to legally end a pregnancy for women with means, particularly those who had a longstanding relationship with a physician.21 Many states required a standing committee in a hospital to review abortion requests, meaning that

Snip

woman would need to pay for both the review process and the procedure itself.22 In the mid-20th century, travel to the United Kingdom, Japan, or the handful of states that liberalized their abortion laws before Roe v. Wade was another option for women, but of course only for those who could afford the travel on top of the price of the procedure.23 This meant that lowincome women were much more likely to turn to illegal abortion, and many would likely turn to self-induction.24According to one study, women from the poorest neighborhoods in New York City who faced an unintended pregnancy had little access to medically supervised abortion and mostly tried to terminate their own pregnancies.25

https://www.nirhealth.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Self-Abortion-White-Paper-Final.pdf
-------------------------------------------------------------

and the right wing idiots want to cut Title X and expanded Medicaid in the US,

So that makes you NOT PRO LIFE.