Reasoned Discourse

[80zephyr]

Logical Fallacy of Appeal to Authority.

....

It seems you don't understand what that means. It is a fact that the highest court has ruled on the matter. It is a fact that anyone born in the US is a US citizen. One of the few ways of changing that would be to go through the courts again.

I understand the way the law is viewed and enforce at this point in time.

My point is the current view is bad law.

....

And your legal education, training, and experience that should lead me to accept your interpretation over that of the Supreme Court?

Nope.

Because of my argument based on historical facts and the reality of the situation that it is batshit insane to let the children of mexican parents be Americans because they are in this nation illegally.

So, you personally disagree with the Constitution of the United States of America? Fine. And?

You do realize that the Constitution can be interpreted in different ways. Look at Citizens United and Kelo versus the city of New London for recent examples.

Mark

 

[Unkotare]

When people openly declare their disinterest in reasoned discourse, where can a discussion go but south?

you don't seem to understand that we as a nation do not have to allow immigration at all

Where has that been in dispute? Nonetheless, we always have and always will. Always.

and we should only allow people in that have the skills we desire...

When people openly declare their disinterest in reasoned discourse, where can a discussion go but south?

you don't seem to understand that we as a nation do not have to allow immigration at all

Where has that been in dispute? Nonetheless, we always have and always will. Always.

and we should only allow people in that have the skills we desire ...

And what skills are those, exactly?

Whatever we decide they are and they can change when needed ...

Such as?

 

[Unkotare]

... one that should be universal is that any and all people even considered for legal immigration must be fluent in both spoken and written English...

"Fluent" as measured how?

 

[Skull Pilot]

you don't seem to understand that we as a nation do not have to allow immigration at all

Where has that been in dispute? Nonetheless, we always have and always will. Always.

and we should only allow people in that have the skills we desire...

you don't seem to understand that we as a nation do not have to allow immigration at all

Where has that been in dispute? Nonetheless, we always have and always will. Always.

and we should only allow people in that have the skills we desire ...

And what skills are those, exactly?

Whatever we decide they are and they can change when needed ...

Such as?

are you an expert in the labor market?

I'm not and don't pretend to be but I do know that some skills are in higher demand than others and that that list is fluid

why don't you google the most needed skills ?

 

[Skull Pilot]

... one that should be universal is that any and all people even considered for legal immigration must be fluent in both spoken and written English...

"Fluent" as measured how?

HS Senior level at least

 

[80zephyr]

you don't seem to understand that we as a nation do not have to allow immigration at all

Where has that been in dispute? Nonetheless, we always have and always will. Always.

and we should only allow people in that have the skills we desire...

you don't seem to understand that we as a nation do not have to allow immigration at all

Where has that been in dispute? Nonetheless, we always have and always will. Always.

and we should only allow people in that have the skills we desire ...

And what skills are those, exactly?

Whatever we decide they are and they can change when needed ...

Such as?

Does it matter? If you look at Canada, they have strict requirements for people wanting to come in.

And after their government declared that they will take the immigrants the US turns away, it didn't take them long to understand the ramifications of their actions.

Canadians Starting to Worry Over Increase of Asylum Seekers

Mark

 

[Unkotare]

... It's well past time for the birthright citizenship to end.

You want to try and change the Constitution? Go ahead. In the meantime, anyone born in the US IS a US citizen. Not an anchor, a paperweight, a doorstop, or a cantilever; a citizen.

I'm all for changing it. I think if we had enough people in the congress to pass the change it would easily get enough states to ratify the changes.

I don't see it happening.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

... It's well past time for the birthright citizenship to end.

You want to try and change the Constitution? Go ahead. In the meantime, anyone born in the US IS a US citizen. Not an anchor, a paperweight, a doorstop, or a cantilever; a citizen.

I'm all for changing it. I think if we had enough people in the congress to pass the change it would easily get enough states to ratify the changes.

I don't see it happening.

Like I said the challenge would be congress. Too many dems are counting on illegals to keep their power.

 

[Unkotare]

It seems you don't understand what that means. It is a fact that the highest court has ruled on the matter. It is a fact that anyone born in the US is a US citizen. One of the few ways of changing that would be to go through the courts again.

I understand the way the law is viewed and enforce at this point in time.

My point is the current view is bad law.

....

And your legal education, training, and experience that should lead me to accept your interpretation over that of the Supreme Court?

Nope.

Because of my argument based on historical facts and the reality of the situation that it is batshit insane to let the children of mexican parents be Americans because they are in this nation illegally.

So, you personally disagree with the Constitution of the United States of America? Fine. And?

You do realize that the Constitution can be interpreted in different ways. Look at Citizens United and Kelo versus the city of New London for recent examples.

Mark

Where has that been in dispute? Nonetheless, we always have and always will. Always.

and we should only allow people in that have the skills we desire...

Where has that been in dispute? Nonetheless, we always have and always will. Always.

and we should only allow people in that have the skills we desire ...

And what skills are those, exactly?

Whatever we decide they are and they can change when needed ...

Such as?

...I do know that some skills are in higher demand than others ...

Such as?

 

[Unkotare]

... one that should be universal is that any and all people even considered for legal immigration must be fluent in both spoken and written English...

"Fluent" as measured how?

HS Senior level at least

Meaning what exactly in terms of second language fluency?

 

[Unkotare]

.... Try living with illegal aliens for a couple of weeks, no, months, yea, YEARS and get back to us. Would you condescend to ACTUALLY dealing with issue BEFORE making judgement to those that have, perchance?

In case anyone was wondering, I have far more, deeper, and more meaningful experience with immigration of all sorts than many who might have noise to make. I have lived and worked with, for, among and on behalf of immigrant communities for all of my adult life. I have been an immigrant, I have worked on behalf of refugees and asylum seekers, I have (and do) taught immigrants - of varying status - from elementary through graduate school and beyond. I work everyday in a (very) inner city public school district where I devote all my energies to helping immigrant high school students to learn and achieve. After that, I coach students - many immigrants or first generation - before then going to tutor a very different immigrant community or teaching at a college where my classes are adult immigrant learners. I then go home where very many of my friends and neighbors are immigrants of all sorts. I understand how and why illegal immigration is a problem for this country, and also how and why even illegal immigrants - without mitigating the legal part - are actual human beings and not just a vessel for the fears of the weak-minded, hysterical, and ignorant.

.

 

[80zephyr]

I understand the way the law is viewed and enforce at this point in time.

My point is the current view is bad law.

....

And your legal education, training, and experience that should lead me to accept your interpretation over that of the Supreme Court?

Nope.

Because of my argument based on historical facts and the reality of the situation that it is batshit insane to let the children of mexican parents be Americans because they are in this nation illegally.

So, you personally disagree with the Constitution of the United States of America? Fine. And?

You do realize that the Constitution can be interpreted in different ways. Look at Citizens United and Kelo versus the city of New London for recent examples.

Mark

and we should only allow people in that have the skills we desire...

and we should only allow people in that have the skills we desire ...

And what skills are those, exactly?

Whatever we decide they are and they can change when needed ...

Such as?

...I do know that some skills are in higher demand than others ...

Such as?

Is this a question to me?

Mark

 

[Unkotare]

Now, I may not be the poster child for reasoned discourse, but it seems awfully hard to come by when the topic has anything to do with immigration. This need not be so.

And daily we see the "put in a minefield!" or "shoot to kill!" bullshit in every thread about illegal immigration. Sadly predictable.