Reality check on economic policies

[CrusaderFrank]

Dems had a veto proof majority, passed almost their entire agenda driving the economy into the dirt in the process...so they blame Reagan.

How do these people get elected to any political office at all?

 

[Lucky#13]

Dems had a veto proof majority, passed almost their entire agenda driving the economy into the dirt in the process...so they blame Reagan.

How do these people get elected to any political office at all?

It's simple. They use the mainstream news outlets, talk radio, etc...to actually convince the people too lazy to actually do their own research that there is actually a difference between the two parties. Other than the rhetoric they are virtually identical. Look at the recent vote to increase military spending. Totally bi-partisan. What happened to all the anti-war democrats in congress? Now that obama has extended the wars he has us entering new ones all of the sudden it's OK because obama is now president. What about the republicans trying to nominate another neo-con for president in romney. Oh he is great!!! Obamacare bad.......romneycare good!!!! The increasing of our debt while lowering taxes when GWB did it was bad!!!!! Now that obama is doing it and UE keeps rising......that's ok. I could go on with example after example. Folks, you need to wake up.

STOP LISTENING TO THE RHETORIC AND PAY CLOSER ATTENTION TO THEIR ACTIONS!!! This whole debt ceiling debate is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. It's nothing more than an attempt to actually make you think whether you are a democrat or republican that your side won. The fact is that the american people are LOSING.

The FED can't kick the can down the road for much longer. They will have to continue to monetize the debt otherwise rates will start to rise and we will not be able to service the interest on our debt. The chinese and other countries are not going to continue purchasing our debt while rates remain low. The only solution is for the FED to continue to monetize through QE or whatever they wish to call it. People think inflation in food and energy is bad now wait until the velocity of that freshly printed/digitally created money makes it's way down the supply chain and it gets multiplied by the banks making new loans. The 70's inflation will look like a walk in the park. It's either inflation, default and restructure(not going to happen) or war.

People need to wake up and please quit picking sides. Do you own research into the actions of these people. Stop listening to their rhetoric and please stop paying attention to the pundits on fox news and msnbc as the do nothing but keep the country divided. Please....we can once again be a great country but people need to open their minds to other possibilities.

 

[California Girl]

And yet Republicans are still pushing the same old song and dance, passionately holding the entire creditworthiness of the United States hostage in return for even lower taxes on corporations,

Am I the only who sees this statement as, uhm, disingenuous.

No.

One wonders why the left are so clueless that they just blindly accept partisan hackery as 'fact'. Scary.

 

[editec]

While the U.S. economy staggers through one of its slowest recoveries since the Great Depression, American companies are poised to report strong earnings for the second quarter -- exposing a dichotomy between corporate performance and the overall health of the economy.

The above is the result of the erosion of the power of unions, folks to counter-balance the power of capital.

Instead, employers are squeezing more out of the workers that they've got, and investing in equipment upgrades and new technology instead of human assets -- labor productivity has risen sharply since the end of the recession.

And the above describes that complaint I often note regarding the duel nature of tecnological progress. It is now cheaper and more profitable to buy a machine than it is to put a person to work.

Wages are moribund, unemployment is stuck at 9 percent, and the corporate bottom line is doing just fine. You could be excused for thinking that if ever there was time to put the stake through supply-side economics, it would be now. Wall Street and big corporations are doing just fine, but absolutely nothing is trickling down.

And yet Republicans are still pushing the same old song and dance, passionately holding the entire creditworthiness of the United States hostage in return for even lower taxes on corporations, adamantly refusing to countenance even the slightest revenue increase to help cushion the hard times for the Americans who are getting a raw deal out of the current recovery.

In theory there is NOTHING wrong with supply side policies.

Unders certain circumstance they are a boon to an economy.

But take to the extreme as this nation has been doing for nearly 40 years?

Well this economy that we are having right now is the end result of miguided economic trade and tax policies, all of which benefitted the SUPPLY side often at the expense of the DEMAND side.

The GOP continues to press for this, meanwhile the DNC continues to advance supply side trade policies which are ALSO not in this nations best interestsd.

BOTH parties appear to be are working toward the same goal ...the bankruptsy of the US government and the economic destruction of the US middle class/



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[sparky]

"We own the economy" -- Debbie Wasserman Schultz

we own the fallout of a economy .....

 

[editec]

"We own the economy" -- Debbie Wasserman Schultz

we own the fallout of a economy .....

Bingo.

We only own this economy when it isn't working and them of that economy we seem to onl;y own its DEBTS

The parts of the economythat are doing well?

The insiders own those.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Am I the only who sees this statement as, uhm, disingenuous.

No, the BS quotient in this thread is just too high to bother responding to. I don't mind discussing diferent views with people who have some idea of the truth and how economics work, but these guys aren't even close.

Translation: Wiseacre isn't wise enough to logically or factually fault the information presented in the link I provided, nor can he logically or factually defend the neocon mantras of imbeciles like Trajan....so Wiseacre just bluffs and blusters.

Damn.

Another fucking flame fest when a discussion is in order.

Remember folks - the answer isn't higher taxes any more than the answer was lower taxes. The answer is Fair Taxes. Simple = Fair.

Until the unemployment lines swell with tax attorneys, accountants and lobbyists, politics in America will continue to be nothing but a circle jerk with the guy next to you focused on the guy on the other side instead of focusing on what he's doing.

 

[code1211]

Wages are moribund, unemployment is stuck at 9 percent, and the corporate bottom line is doing just fine. You could be excused for thinking that if ever there was time to put the stake through supply-side economics, it would be now. Wall Street and big corporations are doing just fine, but absolutely nothing is trickling down. And yet Republicans are still pushing the same old song and dance, passionately holding the entire creditworthiness of the United States hostage in return for even lower taxes on corporations, adamantly refusing to countenance even the slightest revenue increase to help cushion the hard times for the Americans who are getting a raw deal out of the current recovery.

Indeed and well-said.

Of course the fact that ‘trickle-down/supply-side’ – whatever – is a failure won’t have an impact on rightist dogma.

This is really quite astonishing.

The Liberal Elite are charging that policies endorsed by reagan are hurting the eocnomy 2 and a half years after the policies of the Liberal Elite have been working continuously to crush the economy.

Are the Liberal Elite really this stupid or do they just think that everybody else is?

That is itself, is a stupid question. We all know the answer.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Well, first, the private sector has been creating jobs.

But why wouldn't they create jobs to hold onto their tax breaks? That makes no sense.

Really? Where? And how many from 2000 to 2008? And the tax breaks were to give them the means to CREATE jobs, NOT as a permanent situation...which is why the tax cuts were initially signed on with a sunset clause...because eventually it would be detrimental to trying to balance the economy.

Oh, I see. You think that the private sector is deliberately not creating jobs to blackmail the politicians into making the tax cuts permanent. Correct?

If so, that's pretty silly.

The private sector is sitting on cash and not creating jobs because it's easier. If jobs is the goal, cash must be put in the hands of consumers, not producers. It's not rocket science.

Don't get your panties in a right-wing twist - I don't mean take from the rich and give to the poor, just make the tax code simple and fair and see what happens.

 

[code1211]

hold that thought ...


9.2%,

Why don't you try and THINK for a change? The vaunted private sector won't create jobs in the US because they want to hold onto their tax breaks, the rich want to hold onto their tax cuts...both enjoy the profits of outsourcing, down sizing and deregulation while getting financial support from yours and mines tax dollars to do so. And all the while their bought and paid for representatives in the Party of NO (alias the Republican Party) in the Congress and Senate are willing to tank the country to have their way.

Hold THAT thought, chuckles...if you're man enough to.

This is your stance after four years of Democrat Control of both houses of Congress and now 2 and a half years of a Democrat President.

Is there an address on the rock beneath which you live?

 

[code1211]

Am I the only who sees this statement as, uhm, disingenuous.

No. I simply don't have time to deal with nonsense like this today.

Translation: This mentally Shackled libertarian clown isn't wise enough to logically or factually fault the information presented in the link I provided, nor can he logically or factually defend the neocon mantras of imbeciles like Trajan....so the shackled one just bluffs and blusters.

Please explain how the policies of the Big 0 have solved the unemployment crisis. Feel free to use actual unemployment rates to support your thesis. You will pease find these attached.

Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

 

[AVG-JOE]

Am I the only who sees this statement as, uhm, disingenuous.

No, there's a whole lot of people just as willfully ignorant and insipidly stubborn as you Trajan...they call themselves new conservatives, tea party members, oathers, birthers, threepers, etc. You know...morons!

you could address what I said...has it occurred to you that the tax rate for corps world wide ala the top 20 are all significantly lower than ours?

how about those free trade agreements? talk about losing market share, which = jobs here for exports?

drop the rate drop the deductions and loopholes. pass the free trade agreements AND; get the dept of energy to approve the Keystone XL pipeline. that alone ala the pipeline would create 30K jobs in less than 3-4 months right off the bat.

Co's spend when they see a reasons too, ala customers and long term outlook, ala 5 years. they don't know what to expect next right now.

That's not completely true Trajan, the better politically connected a corporation is, the lower the tax they pay because of the complicated tax code. Smaller corporations and businesses without the benefit of lobbyists and lawyers on the payroll are seriously over taxed while large, well connected corporations and the upper crust are seriously under taxed. There is no generic 'business tax rate' in this country. It is however, way past time for one.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Dems had a veto proof majority, passed almost their entire agenda driving the economy into the dirt in the process...so they blame Reagan.

How do these people get elected to any political office at all?

When the FUCK are people going to see that the republicans and the democrats are BOTH feeding on the table scraps from the same rich-mans table?

ObamaCare: Written by the lobbyists, for the corporations.

Energy Policy: Written by the lobbyists, for the corporations.

Tax Code: Written by the lobbyists, for the corporations.

"Stimulus" Package: Written by the lobbyists, for the corporations.

Are you seeing a pattern? Why DO we bother electing congresscritters? Representation?

 

[AVG-JOE]

And yet Republicans are still pushing the same old song and dance, passionately holding the entire creditworthiness of the United States hostage in return for even lower taxes on corporations,

Am I the only who sees this statement as, uhm, disingenuous.

No.

One wonders why the left are so clueless that they just blindly accept partisan hackery as 'fact'. Scary.

One wonders why SOME the left are so clueless that they just blindly accept partisan hackery as 'fact'. Scary.

Yes, I feel strongly enough about sweeping generalizations to make a point of pointing them out... it's just the way I roll.

That being said, the same can be said for SOME on the right... Where to from here, CG?

 

[AVG-JOE]

Wages are moribund, unemployment is stuck at 9 percent, and the corporate bottom line is doing just fine. You could be excused for thinking that if ever there was time to put the stake through supply-side economics, it would be now. Wall Street and big corporations are doing just fine, but absolutely nothing is trickling down. And yet Republicans are still pushing the same old song and dance, passionately holding the entire creditworthiness of the United States hostage in return for even lower taxes on corporations, adamantly refusing to countenance even the slightest revenue increase to help cushion the hard times for the Americans who are getting a raw deal out of the current recovery.

Indeed and well-said.

Of course the fact that ‘trickle-down/supply-side’ – whatever – is a failure won’t have an impact on rightist dogma.

This is really quite astonishing.

The Liberal Elite are charging that policies endorsed by reagan are hurting the eocnomy 2 and a half years after the policies of the Liberal Elite have been working continuously to crush the economy.

Are the Liberal Elite really this stupid or do they just think that everybody else is?

That is itself, is a stupid question. We all know the answer.

You're confusing 'Democratic Politicians' with 'Liberal Elite' - It's the SAME fucking policy, no matter which team is the campaign financed whipping boy of the corporate and upper-crust lobby machine.

There hasn't been any truly liberal thinking in American politics since the Joe McCarthy witch-hunt in the 1950's.

 

[expat_panama]

...the tax rate for corps world wide ala the top 20 are all significantly lower than ours...

Not everyone says US corp taxes are low. Here are some other viewpoints:

(from here) "At 39.2 percent, the United States has the second highest combined federal and state statutory corporate tax rate in the industrialized world."

(from here) "U.S. States Lead the World in High Corporate Taxes"

 

[Wiseacre]

"Reality check on economic policies" = We're fucked, now there's a reality check.

 

[AVG-JOE]

...the tax rate for corps world wide ala the top 20 are all significantly lower than ours...

Not everyone says US corp taxes are low. Here are some other viewpoints:

(from here) "At 39.2 percent, the United States has the second highest combined federal and state statutory corporate tax rate in the industrialized world."

(from here) "U.S. States Lead the World in High Corporate Taxes"

Before deductions.

Between 2000 and 2005, U.S. corporate taxes amounted to 2.2% of the GDP. The average for the 30 mostly rich member countries of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development was 3.4%.

Why the disparity given the high federal rate, which rises to 39% counting state taxes? Part of the answer is that big U.S. companies have become expert at hiding profits in tax havens overseas. And many of the smaller ones simply pass through their income to owners who then report it on their personal returns.

High Corporate Tax Rate Is Misleading - SmartMoney.com

The time has come to demand fair and simple taxes.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

"We own the economy" -- Debbie Wasserman Schultz

we own the fallout of a economy .....

That's not what the head of the DNC said, Dear.

Too bad about losing that media monopoly.

 

[expat_panama]

...The time has come to demand fair and simple taxes.

OK, so nobody likes complicated and unfair taxes, including the folks that wrote the tax code, so we're going to have to be a bit more specific about what the facts are, what it is that we want, and what works.

It's a fact that Obama's BEA admits that since the '08 election corp taxes paid has soared from $203 Billion to $410 Billion, and Obama's BLS admits that unemployment has gone from 6.6% to 9.2%. We need to agree that corp. taxes are way higher and they haven't done any good. Then we can talk about how to make things like they were with lower taxes and more jobs.