Real Life Horror Story

JimBowie1958

Old Fogey
Sep 25, 2011
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Read the links and think about it all and you should see the horror.

Communicating With a Patient in a Vegetative State - NYTimes.com

Maryland Bill Allows Organ Harvesting from Persons in Persistent Vegetative State | Women of Grace

Does it matter that organ donors are not dead? Ethical and policy implications -- Potts and Evans 31 (7): 406 -- Journal of Medical Ethics

Oh, and since the patient is declared dead after a short period of no brain activity (despite the fact that they might gone into a vegetative state without the doctors realizing it, THEY DO NOT GIVE ANESTHETICS TO THE PERSON BEING HARVESTED.

Sweet dreams everyone.
 
Read the links and think about it all and you should see the horror.

Communicating With a Patient in a Vegetative State - NYTimes.com

Maryland Bill Allows Organ Harvesting from Persons in Persistent Vegetative State | Women of Grace

Does it matter that organ donors are not dead? Ethical and policy implications -- Potts and Evans 31 (7): 406 -- Journal of Medical Ethics

Oh, and since the patient is declared dead after a short period of no brain activity (despite the fact that they might gone into a vegetative state without the doctors realizing it, THEY DO NOT GIVE ANESTHETICS TO THE PERSON BEING HARVESTED.

Sweet dreams everyone.

It depends on if Dick Cheney needs that heart transplant. :badgrin:

In fact, now that he has an actual heart, can Dick be declared human? Also, can he now run in 2016? Since he preached that deficits don't matter, I think he would be the ideal Repuklican for the position.
 
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Old news.

That bill was introduced during the 2012 legislative session and withdrawn after receiving an unfavorable report from the Health and Government Operations Committee.
 
Old news.

That bill was introduced during the 2012 legislative session and withdrawn after receiving an unfavorable report from the Health and Government Operations Committee.

Not talking about just the bill, but the possibility of a person who has donated their organs to be 'harvested' while still alive, feeling every bit of it, but being unable to communicate their anguish to anyone.

Some hopsitals only give about twenty seconds for the brain signals to return before declaring you dead, and that leaves plenty of time for a person to revive undetected and have the pleasure of donating their organs alive.

Organs taken from patients that doctors were pressured to declare brain dead, suit charges - NYPOST.com

The New York Organ Donor Network pressured hospital staffers to declare patients brain dead so their body parts could be harvested — and even hired “coaches” to train staffers how to be more persuasive, a bombshell lawsuit charged yesterday.

The federally funded nonprofit used a “quota” system, and leaned heavily on the next of kin to sign consent forms when patients were not registered as organ donors, the suit charged.

“They’re playing God,” said plaintiff Patrick McMahon, 50, an Air Force combat veteran and nurse practitioner who claims he was fired as a transplant coordinator after just four months for protesting the practice.


A Struggle To Define 'Death' For Organ Donors : Shots - Health News : NPR

For decades, organ donation has been guided by something called the "dead donor rule."

"We have this idea that you must be dead first — so before your organs can be removed, we agree that you are dead," said Leslie Whetstine, a bioethicist at Walsh University in Ohio.

That probably sounds pretty obvious. But defining "dead" turns out to be pretty complicated. It turns out, there are two ways to declare someone dead. For decades, the main way has been "brain death."

Brain death is defined an "irreversible cessation of all the functions of the brain, including the brain stem," according to James L. Bernat, a Dartmouth Medical School neurologist who is an expert on the science and ethics of organ procurement.

These are often people who have suffered massive strokes or devastating blows to the head.

But transplant advocates have revived another definition in recent years. It's had several names, including "donation after cardiac death (DCD)" and "donation after circulatory death." It says: It's OK if donors initially may still have some brain activity. But in this case, death requires "an irreversible cessation of circulation and heartbeat and breathing and no intervention will be done to restore it," Bernat said. "So it is permanent."

In these cases, no one will perform CPR or anything else to restore circulation on the patient. A typical case might involve someone who has had a massive heart attack. Doctors and families agree there's no hope and decide it's time to discontinue life support.

But some experts are troubled by this for a variety of reasons. University of Pennsylvania bioethicist Scott Halpern explains the biggest one.

"The problem is, it's not at all clear that donors after circulatory determination of death are truly dead," Halpern said.

In effect, with the over a million buckaroos the hospitals make from selling donor organs, they have a financial incentive to declare you dead, not try to revive you and then 'harvest' you while you still might be alive.
 
Read the links and think about it all and you should see the horror.

Communicating With a Patient in a Vegetative State - NYTimes.com

Maryland Bill Allows Organ Harvesting from Persons in Persistent Vegetative State | Women of Grace

Does it matter that organ donors are not dead? Ethical and policy implications -- Potts and Evans 31 (7): 406 -- Journal of Medical Ethics

Oh, and since the patient is declared dead after a short period of no brain activity (despite the fact that they might gone into a vegetative state without the doctors realizing it, THEY DO NOT GIVE ANESTHETICS TO THE PERSON BEING HARVESTED.

Sweet dreams everyone.

I knew this a long time ago. It's one of the reasons I'm not a donor. Did you know that in New York when you call for an ambulance you don't know whether it's an ambulance that will treat you or an ambulance designed to start the organ harvesting process? The program might go nationwide if its successful.
 
It would be helpful if people came to the acceptance that EVERYONE DIES. You begin dying when you are born. Get over it.

Rather than keeping some poor, suffering soul alive for another 20 weeks in a hospital bed, unable to communicate or live a life of quality, let the poor soul go. Let them die. It's a natural process that you're messing with there.
 
I knew this a long time ago. It's one of the reasons I'm not a donor. Did you know that in New York when you call for an ambulance you don't know whether it's an ambulance that will treat you or an ambulance designed to start the organ harvesting process? The program might go nationwide if its successful.

And your evidence of this is where?
 
It would be helpful if people came to the acceptance that EVERYONE DIES. You begin dying when you are born. Get over it.

Rather than keeping some poor, suffering soul alive for another 20 weeks in a hospital bed, unable to communicate or live a life of quality, let the poor soul go. Let them die. It's a natural process that you're messing with there.

Especially if their bodies have organs worth stealing.
 
About 2 years ago my 69 year old Mother was in a Coma after a bout with Pneumonia and the Doctors wanted to pull the plug. Her lung capacity was reduced to about 10% and her kidneys stated to fail. The Doctors said it didn't look good and one Doctor in particular, whom I'll forever refer to as "The Angel of Death" said "I've had 3 just like her this week and they all passed on. We'd like you to sign these forms for Organ Donation if you want to".

My Sister said it was my decision (thanks Sis!) so after talking with my Dad about it I decided to just let Nature take it's course. Two days later her kidneys started to function again and she woke up tree days after that.

They said: "When we take the respirator out her Lungs may collapse so be prepared for that". Well they didn't and she's just fine now. She's overweight from the crappy Nursing Home food but she's still here.

Don't ever just go by the advice of Doctors. Pray and listen to your inner voice instead.
 
It would be helpful if people came to the acceptance that EVERYONE DIES. You begin dying when you are born. Get over it.

Rather than keeping some poor, suffering soul alive for another 20 weeks in a hospital bed, unable to communicate or live a life of quality, let the poor soul go. Let them die. It's a natural process that you're messing with there.

What does that rant have to do with this thread's topic?
 
I knew this a long time ago. It's one of the reasons I'm not a donor. Did you know that in New York when you call for an ambulance you don't know whether it's an ambulance that will treat you or an ambulance designed to start the organ harvesting process? The program might go nationwide if its successful.

And your evidence of this is where?

It's been in place since 2008.

Ethicists Debate Ambulance for Organs - ABC News

Just waiting until organ donation is made mandatory.

Mandatory Organ Donation Sought - NYTimes.com
 
I knew this a long time ago. It's one of the reasons I'm not a donor. Did you know that in New York when you call for an ambulance you don't know whether it's an ambulance that will treat you or an ambulance designed to start the organ harvesting process? The program might go nationwide if its successful.

And your evidence of this is where?

Did the Death Panels tell her?

Seriously, there is nothing new in the OP. Those who remember the horror of Baby Fae having a baboon heart transplanted might remember the scandal when it was learned that neither the ape nor the newborn baby given anesthetic but both were given a drug that paralyzes while leaving the victim conscious. She died of several causes, one of which was that her blood was not typed and cross-matched with the ape's. They also took blood samples in adult amounts.

Up until recently, male babies were not anesthetized prior to circumcision and some doctors still do not give pain relief to them.

Reason is that tiny babies were thought to be oblivious to pain. And, of course, scum like Larry Bailey, who did the heart surgery, didn't give a damn about torturing animals and babies just to get famous.
 
Terry Schaivo - THAT was a nightmare.

We put humans through torture that would put us in jail if we did it to the family dog.
 
Terry Schaivo - THAT was a nightmare.

We put humans through torture that would put us in jail if we did it to the family dog.

Nightmare for Schaivo? I thought you lefties said she had no conscieousnsness?

Do you hyperbole much?
 
I knew this a long time ago. It's one of the reasons I'm not a donor. Did you know that in New York when you call for an ambulance you don't know whether it's an ambulance that will treat you or an ambulance designed to start the organ harvesting process? The program might go nationwide if its successful.

And your evidence of this is where?

Did the Death Panels tell her?

Seriously, there is nothing new in the OP. Those who remember the horror of Baby Fae having a baboon heart transplanted might remember the scandal when it was learned that neither the ape nor the newborn baby given anesthetic but both were given a drug that paralyzes while leaving the victim conscious. She died of several causes, one of which was that her blood was not typed and cross-matched with the ape's. They also took blood samples in adult amounts.

Up until recently, male babies were not anesthetized prior to circumcision and some doctors still do not give pain relief to them.

Reason is that tiny babies were thought to be oblivious to pain. And, of course, scum like Larry Bailey, who did the heart surgery, didn't give a damn about torturing animals and babies just to get famous.

The things you point out are not part of a specific process, but are manifestations of a disregard for human life and dignity. So maybe you feel better dismissing the whole thing, but I am not an organ donor and I plan to draw up a living will with a friend to execute it who is quite stubbborn and will sue any hosptial if they talk my family into donating my organs despite my well and often stated desires.

The idea that a donor could get harvested while conscious and fully capable of feeling all the pain and not anathesetized is not known to the vast majority of the public, hence the thread.

And I agree with you on another thing; some small niche of surgeons seem to be completely dismissive of their patients welfare other than the success or failure of the surgery or experiment that they are doing. They seem to place their patients much lower than the outcome of their activity, and yes, those are scum.
 

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