Real Christians

[midcan5]

While I am not a religious person, I am glad to see Christians who live a faith that resembles Christianity at its best and that respects life and the earth.

"My Personal ‘Faith Priorities’ for this Election" by Jim Wallis

"In 2004, several conservative Catholic bishops and a few megachurch pastors like Rick Warren issued their list of "non-negotiables," which were intended to be a voter guide for their followers. All of them were relatively the same list of issues: abortion, gay marriage, stem cell research, etc. None of them even included the word "poverty," only one example of the missing issues which are found quite clearly in the Bible. All of them were also relatively the same as official Republican Party Web sites of "non-negotiables." The political connections and commitments of the religious non-negotiable writers were quite clear.

I want to suggest a different approach this year and share my personal list of "faith priorities" that will guide me in making the imperfect choices that always confront us in any election year — and suggest that each of you come up with your own list of "faith" or "moral" priorities for this election year and take them into the voting booth with you.

After the last election, I wrote a book titled God’s Politics. I was criticized by some for presuming to speak for God, but that wasn’t the point. I was trying to explore what issues might be closest to the heart of God and how they may be quite different from what many strident religious voices were then saying. I was also saying that "God’s Politics" will often turn our partisan politics upside down, transcend our ideological categories of Left and Right, and challenge the core values and priorities of our political culture. I was also trying to say that there is certainly no easy jump from God’s politics to either the Republicans or Democrats. God is neither. In any election we face imperfect choices, but our choices should reflect the things we believe God cares about if we are people of faith, and our own moral sensibilities if we are not people of faith. Therefore, people of faith, and all of us, should be "values voters" but vote all our values, not just a few that can be easily manipulated for the benefit of one party or another.

In 2008, the kingdom of God is not on the ballot in any of the 50 states as far as I can see. So we can’t vote for that this year. But there are important choices in this year’s election — very important choices — which will dramatically impact what many in the religious community and outside of it call "the common good," and the outcome could be very important, perhaps even more so than in many recent electoral contests.

I am in no position to tell anyone what is "non-negotiable," and neither is any bishop or megachurch pastor, but let me tell you the "faith priorities" and values I will be voting on this year:

1. With more than 2,000 verses in the Bible about how we treat the poor and oppressed, I will examine the record, plans, policies, and promises made by the candidates on what they will do to overcome the scandal of extreme global poverty and the shame of such unnecessary domestic poverty in the richest nation in the world. Such a central theme of the Bible simply cannot be ignored at election time, as too many Christians have done for years. And any solution to the economic crisis that simply bails out the rich, and even the middle class, but ignores those at the bottom should simply be unacceptable to people of faith."

The rest here:

God's Politics: A Blog by Jim Wallis & Friends

 

[sealybobo]

While I am not a religious person, I am glad to see Christians who live a faith that resembles Christianity at its best and that respects life and the earth.

"My Personal ‘Faith Priorities’ for this Election" by Jim Wallis

"In 2004, several conservative Catholic bishops and a few megachurch pastors like Rick Warren issued their list of "non-negotiables," which were intended to be a voter guide for their followers. All of them were relatively the same list of issues: abortion, gay marriage, stem cell research, etc. None of them even included the word "poverty," only one example of the missing issues which are found quite clearly in the Bible. All of them were also relatively the same as official Republican Party Web sites of "non-negotiables." The political connections and commitments of the religious non-negotiable writers were quite clear.

I want to suggest a different approach this year and share my personal list of "faith priorities" that will guide me in making the imperfect choices that always confront us in any election year — and suggest that each of you come up with your own list of "faith" or "moral" priorities for this election year and take them into the voting booth with you.

After the last election, I wrote a book titled God’s Politics. I was criticized by some for presuming to speak for God, but that wasn’t the point. I was trying to explore what issues might be closest to the heart of God and how they may be quite different from what many strident religious voices were then saying. I was also saying that "God’s Politics" will often turn our partisan politics upside down, transcend our ideological categories of Left and Right, and challenge the core values and priorities of our political culture. I was also trying to say that there is certainly no easy jump from God’s politics to either the Republicans or Democrats. God is neither. In any election we face imperfect choices, but our choices should reflect the things we believe God cares about if we are people of faith, and our own moral sensibilities if we are not people of faith. Therefore, people of faith, and all of us, should be "values voters" but vote all our values, not just a few that can be easily manipulated for the benefit of one party or another.

In 2008, the kingdom of God is not on the ballot in any of the 50 states as far as I can see. So we can’t vote for that this year. But there are important choices in this year’s election — very important choices — which will dramatically impact what many in the religious community and outside of it call "the common good," and the outcome could be very important, perhaps even more so than in many recent electoral contests.

I am in no position to tell anyone what is "non-negotiable," and neither is any bishop or megachurch pastor, but let me tell you the "faith priorities" and values I will be voting on this year:

1. With more than 2,000 verses in the Bible about how we treat the poor and oppressed, I will examine the record, plans, policies, and promises made by the candidates on what they will do to overcome the scandal of extreme global poverty and the shame of such unnecessary domestic poverty in the richest nation in the world. Such a central theme of the Bible simply cannot be ignored at election time, as too many Christians have done for years. And any solution to the economic crisis that simply bails out the rich, and even the middle class, but ignores those at the bottom should simply be unacceptable to people of faith."

The rest here:

God's Politics: A Blog by Jim Wallis & Friends

Who are the real Christians? I say the fundamentalists are what someone looks like when they live strictly by the book.

They go to church every week.

Do you think a real Christian is pro choice?

I think the real Christians think being gay is a sin.

They wait to be married. How many so called Christians can say they waited?

The ones that tell the rest of us we’re going to hell. Those are the real Christians not the nice ones. The nice ones aren’t even doing it right

 

[Meriweather]

1. With more than 2,000 verses in the Bible about how we treat the poor and oppressed, I will examine the record, plans, policies, and promises made by the candidates on what they will do to overcome the scandal of extreme global poverty and the shame of such unnecessary domestic poverty in the richest nation in the world. Such a central theme of the Bible simply cannot be ignored at election time, as too many Christians have done for years. And any solution to the economic crisis that simply bails out the rich, and even the middle class, but ignores those at the bottom should simply be unacceptable to people of faith."

The last thing any "real" Christian should want to do is turn over what is their responsibility to the government and call themselves good. People, not government bureaucracy, should take care of people. For the government to take this opportunity to help others from its citizens is to take part of their souls. We build an environment where everyone grows up personally tending to those in need, not shrugging this duty over to the establishment.

Everyone is better off when we work to help those in need instead of spending our time growing the government.

 

[BS Filter]

1. With more than 2,000 verses in the Bible about how we treat the poor and oppressed, I will examine the record, plans, policies, and promises made by the candidates on what they will do to overcome the scandal of extreme global poverty and the shame of such unnecessary domestic poverty in the richest nation in the world. Such a central theme of the Bible simply cannot be ignored at election time, as too many Christians have done for years. And any solution to the economic crisis that simply bails out the rich, and even the middle class, but ignores those at the bottom should simply be unacceptable to people of faith."

The last thing any "real" Christian should want to do is turn over what is their responsibility to the government and call themselves good. People, not government bureaucracy, should take care of people. For the government to take this opportunity to help others from its citizens is to take part of their souls. We build an environment where everyone grows up personally tending to those in need, not shrugging this duty over to the establishment.

Everyone is better off when we work to help those in need instead of spending our time growing the government.

Agree. Government doesn't take care of people for humanitarian reasons, but for political purposes.

 

[RWNJ]

While I am not a religious person, I am glad to see Christians who live a faith that resembles Christianity at its best and that respects life and the earth.

"My Personal ‘Faith Priorities’ for this Election" by Jim Wallis

"In 2004, several conservative Catholic bishops and a few megachurch pastors like Rick Warren issued their list of "non-negotiables," which were intended to be a voter guide for their followers. All of them were relatively the same list of issues: abortion, gay marriage, stem cell research, etc. None of them even included the word "poverty," only one example of the missing issues which are found quite clearly in the Bible. All of them were also relatively the same as official Republican Party Web sites of "non-negotiables." The political connections and commitments of the religious non-negotiable writers were quite clear.

I want to suggest a different approach this year and share my personal list of "faith priorities" that will guide me in making the imperfect choices that always confront us in any election year — and suggest that each of you come up with your own list of "faith" or "moral" priorities for this election year and take them into the voting booth with you.

After the last election, I wrote a book titled God’s Politics. I was criticized by some for presuming to speak for God, but that wasn’t the point. I was trying to explore what issues might be closest to the heart of God and how they may be quite different from what many strident religious voices were then saying. I was also saying that "God’s Politics" will often turn our partisan politics upside down, transcend our ideological categories of Left and Right, and challenge the core values and priorities of our political culture. I was also trying to say that there is certainly no easy jump from God’s politics to either the Republicans or Democrats. God is neither. In any election we face imperfect choices, but our choices should reflect the things we believe God cares about if we are people of faith, and our own moral sensibilities if we are not people of faith. Therefore, people of faith, and all of us, should be "values voters" but vote all our values, not just a few that can be easily manipulated for the benefit of one party or another.

In 2008, the kingdom of God is not on the ballot in any of the 50 states as far as I can see. So we can’t vote for that this year. But there are important choices in this year’s election — very important choices — which will dramatically impact what many in the religious community and outside of it call "the common good," and the outcome could be very important, perhaps even more so than in many recent electoral contests.

I am in no position to tell anyone what is "non-negotiable," and neither is any bishop or megachurch pastor, but let me tell you the "faith priorities" and values I will be voting on this year:

1. With more than 2,000 verses in the Bible about how we treat the poor and oppressed, I will examine the record, plans, policies, and promises made by the candidates on what they will do to overcome the scandal of extreme global poverty and the shame of such unnecessary domestic poverty in the richest nation in the world. Such a central theme of the Bible simply cannot be ignored at election time, as too many Christians have done for years. And any solution to the economic crisis that simply bails out the rich, and even the middle class, but ignores those at the bottom should simply be unacceptable to people of faith."

The rest here:

God's Politics: A Blog by Jim Wallis & Friends

There is nothing that can be done about poverty. Jesus said that the poor would always be with us. Also, it's not the government's job to do anything about it. Everything they've tried hasn't worked, or made the problem worse. It should be handled at the local level.

 

[BulletProof]

1. With more than 2,000 verses in the Bible about how we treat the poor and oppressed,

No doubt your source will lie like a Jew. There's nothing in the Bible about Christians running charities for the poor. On the country, the Bible says the lazy should go hungry. And, the Bible gives very strict guidelines on what poor the Christians should help: old widows who are virtuous and help out the church.

It's immoral and unchristian to subsidize poor people who are poor because of their own immoral choices.

 

[RWNJ]

1. With more than 2,000 verses in the Bible about how we treat the poor and oppressed,

No doubt your source will lie like a Jew. There's nothing in the Bible about Christians running charities for the poor. On the country, the Bible says the lazy should go hungry. And, the Bible gives very strict guidelines on what poor the Christians should help: old widows who are virtuous and help out the church.

It's immoral and unchristian to subsidize poor people who are poor because of their own immoral choices.

Yep. If you don't work, you don't eat. Seems fair to me. And if you are able to work, but can't there is family and charities to fall back on. Government should have no role whatsoever in supporting people. They only take from those who work and give it to someone else. That's called theft.

 

[IsaacNewton]

The only people in the US that even come close to living as a 'Christian' are the Amish.

Every other religion has churches that look like Palaces built for Saddam Hussein, in cities and towns where the homeless go hungry every night. They aren't Christians.

 

[ding]

1. With more than 2,000 verses in the Bible about how we treat the poor and oppressed, I will examine the record, plans, policies, and promises made by the candidates on what they will do to overcome the scandal of extreme global poverty and the shame of such unnecessary domestic poverty in the richest nation in the world. Such a central theme of the Bible simply cannot be ignored at election time, as too many Christians have done for years. And any solution to the economic crisis that simply bails out the rich, and even the middle class, but ignores those at the bottom should simply be unacceptable to people of faith."

The last thing any "real" Christian should want to do is turn over what is their responsibility to the government and call themselves good. People, not government bureaucracy, should take care of people. For the government to take this opportunity to help others from its citizens is to take part of their souls. We build an environment where everyone grows up personally tending to those in need, not shrugging this duty over to the establishment.

Everyone is better off when we work to help those in need instead of spending our time growing the government.

Agreed.

This is called the principle of subsidiarity and it is the only effective way to ennoble the human spirit.

 

[ding]

The only people in the US that even come close to living as a 'Christian' are the Amish.

Every other religion has churches that look like Palaces built for Saddam Hussein, in cities and towns where the homeless go hungry every night. They aren't Christians.

That would be a superficial examination.

At the heart of Christianity is a personal relationship with God. How do you examine that?

 

[BulletProof]

The last thing any "real" Christian should want to do is turn over what is their responsibility to the government and call themselves good. People, not government bureaucracy, should take care of people. For the government to take this opportunity to help others from its citizens is to take part of their souls. We build an environment where everyone grows up personally tending to those in need, not shrugging this duty over to the establishment.

Everyone is better off when we work to help those in need instead of spending our time growing the government.

Everyone is better off when those in need stop being lazy hedonists.

It's not the responsibility of Christians to care for the poor, at least those outside of contributing church members in difficult situations through no fault of their own.

It's the job of the government to care for the poor.

 

[BS Filter]

A person's wealth or lack of wealth is meaningless regarding whether they are a true believer. It's the motives of the heart. I've seen very generous wealthy Christians and I've seen greedy stingy poor Christians. God will separate the wheat from the chaff. We aren't the judge.

 

[Meriweather]

Everyone is better off when those in need stop being lazy hedonists.

It's not the responsibility of Christians to care for the poor, at least those outside of contributing church members in difficult situations through no fault of their own.

It's the job of the government to care for the poor.

I see it a bit differently. Providing for those in need based on church affiliation does one of two things: Leaves some out in the cold, and (even worse) has people joining a church out of personal need rather than out of faith and love of God.

Second, returning the responsibility to people is good for both sides. People are supposed to take care of those in need. Second of all, those in need are able to be thankful to the community, rather than entitled. Lazy hedonists would go the way they did back before welfare. People then would push that extra mile before they would accept charity from others. Not only that, the local community is better able to accurately identify the lazy hedonist from those in need.

 

[Lysistrata]

1. With more than 2,000 verses in the Bible about how we treat the poor and oppressed,

No doubt your source will lie like a Jew. There's nothing in the Bible about Christians running charities for the poor. On the country, the Bible says the lazy should go hungry. And, the Bible gives very strict guidelines on what poor the Christians should help: old widows who are virtuous and help out the church.

It's immoral and unchristian to subsidize poor people who are poor because of their own immoral choices.

Filthy anti-semite. Forget cherry picking from the book assembled to meet Constantine's political needs.

 

[Lysistrata]

The only people in the US that even come close to living as a 'Christian' are the Amish.

Every other religion has churches that look like Palaces built for Saddam Hussein, in cities and towns where the homeless go hungry every night. They aren't Christians.

I would add that members of the Society of Friends (Quakers), as a group,try to live as Christians and do a great job of it.

 

[hobelim]

The only people in the US that even come close to living as a 'Christian' are the Amish.

Every other religion has churches that look like Palaces built for Saddam Hussein, in cities and towns where the homeless go hungry every night. They aren't Christians.

I don't know about that... It may even be true but Jesus wasn't teaching people to be Christians he was teaching a kind of reform Judaism, a new way to understand and conform to the deeper implications of the divine commands, the way that Moses had originally taught to follow, the only way that reveals the wisdom of God and fulfills the promise of life that had been lost to time before the construction of the first temple.

Christians don't seem to have very high standards.

You just have to admit being a sinner, a worthless piece of shit, put the entire book of the law and prophets into the trash, worship a human being, throw some spare change and soup at the poor every now and then, and remain obstinate for the rest of your life.

The greatest Christian who ever lived could not measure up to the worst scoundrel that ever partied with Jesus.

 

[BulletProof]

Filthy anti-semite. Forget cherry picking from the book assembled to meet Constantine's political needs.

Filthy Jew... sorry, I'm being redundant. You people like to lie about what the Bible says. You people also like to lie about the teachings of your book, the Talmud. Your book openly teaches Jews to lie to gentiles, and that Jews do. ("Openly" in that the Talmud is open about it, but not open in that Jews don't share the Talmud with gentiles.)

 

[BulletProof]

I see it a bit differently. Providing for those in need based on church affiliation does one of two things: Leaves some out in the cold, and (even worse) has people joining a church out of personal need rather than out of faith and love of God.

First, charity is not the job of the church.

Second, as for leaving people out in the cold, churches and private charities are ten times more guilty of uneven distributions than that of government. The government establishes a baseline of need and then evenly distributes money according to that baseline. A private charity buys one person a house, even if the need isn't proven, and leaves the next one homeless, so to speak.

Third, why are you crying over people joining the church? But, have no fear, the biblical standard for supporting church members is too high for people joining just for handouts. E.g. "Let a widow be enrolled [for support] if she is not less than sixty years of age, having been the wife of one husband, and having a reputation for good works: if she has brought up children, has shown hospitality, has washed the feet of the saints, has cared for the afflicted, and has devoted herself to every good work. But refuse to enroll younger widows... If any believing woman has relatives who are widows, let her care for them. Let the church not be burdened, so that it may care for those who are truly widows."

See, for a widow to qualify for help from the church:
1) truly elderly
2) virtuous life
3) service to the church
4) has no family for support
5) (by implication) has no government support

You engage in self-righteousness, which only hurts the church and actually increases need.

those in need are able to be thankful to the community, rather than entitled.

Everyone who gets a handout feels entitled, it doesn't matter who the handout comes from.

 

[Lysistrata]

Filthy anti-semite. Forget cherry picking from the book assembled to meet Constantine's political needs.

Filthy Jew... sorry, I'm being redundant. You people like to lie about what the Bible says. You people also like to lie about the teachings of your book, the Talmud. Your book openly teaches Jews to lie to gentiles, and that Jews do. ("Openly" in that the Talmud is open about it, but not open in that Jews don't share the Talmud with gentiles.)

I'm not Jewish, dumbshit. I just don't like bigots much.

I'd try going to a church, synagogue, or temple of your choice and learning to be a decent human being, if I were you.
The Steinsaltz edition of the Talmud is available everywhere.

 

[BulletProof]

I'm not Jewish, dumbshit. I just don't like bigots much.

What is Jewish, if not being a lying Antichrist, like yourself?

I'd try going to a church, synagogue, or temple of your choice and learning to be a decent human being, if I were you.
The Steinsaltz edition of the Talmud is available everywhere.

I've invited Jews here to share their favorite Talmud passage. No takers. Compare to Christians who keep quoting the Bible over and over and over and over and over, without anyone asking.