Reading and Comprehension Skills Required.

[jillian]

Actually, yes, I can say it failed.

well, you can say it. but it's unsubstantiated. i think the way i put it is far more accurate.

can you say what unemployment would have been had the money not been spent?

i'm thinking no.

That would have done far more for the country than the massive Democrat special interest group buyoff and payback, certainly.

a "democrat special interest group buyoff and payback". that's a facile allegation to make i've seen no evidence of that. and before you link me to an item or item(s), it would be meaningless to me absent a link to all funds spent and who was pushing them.

the tax cuts are the largest problem we had and continue to have.

It's the economy that's destroying confidence in the economy, and the incompetent way Obama's handling it.

again, it's easy for the right to continue that meme. but the day obama went into office, the right started the drumbeat. after a couple of months they started ranting and raving that the mess left for them wasn't fixed.

and we know that corporate america is sitting on 2 trillion dollars give or take that should be used for hiring.

even if they were worried about the future, they could use half of that.

the problem isn't as simple as obama is this or obama is that. it's that type of process that keeps things stagnant. the right WANTS it to be this way so they have a shot in 2012 so they reduce the issue to sound bites.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Actually, yes, I can say it failed.

well, you can say it. but it's unsubstantiated. i think the way i put it is far more accurate.

can you say what unemployment would have been had the money not been spent?

i'm thinking no.

That would have done far more for the country than the massive Democrat special interest group buyoff and payback, certainly.

a "democrat special interest group buyoff and payback". that's a facile allegation to make i've seen no evidence of that. and before you link me to an item or item(s), it would be meaningless to me absent a link to all funds spent and who was pushing them.

the tax cuts are the largest problem we had and continue to have.

It's the economy that's destroying confidence in the economy, and the incompetent way Obama's handling it.

again, it's easy for the right to continue that meme. but the day obama went into office, the right started the drumbeat. after a couple of months they started ranting and raving that the mess left for them wasn't fixed.

and we know that corporate america is sitting on 2 trillion dollars give or take that should be used for hiring.

even if they were worried about the future, they could use half of that.

the problem isn't as simple as obama is this or obama is that. it's that type of process that keeps things stagnant. the right WANTS it to be this way so they have a shot in 2012 so they reduce the issue to sound bites.

And the sound bites will resound from all the candidates for the GOP nomination in tonights debate. I can hear it now, "it's Obma's fault, Obama's fault Obama's fault..."

 

[Jack Fate]

you can't say the stimulus failed. what you can say is it didn't succeed quickly enough or in larger numbers.

the president was far too conciliatory and gave far too much of the stimulus package in the form of tax cuts. given that we already know supply side economics is a massive failure since we've lived with the voodoo economics for the past 10 or so years, this was clearly a mistake.

how anyone can keep perpetrating the fraud that there is such a thing as trickle down is beyond me.

auditor was right. the money should have been dumped into massive infrastructure projects. at every site, there should have been a huge sign saying "your federal tax dollars at work".

that would have infused cash into the economy, created jobs and cut off the rightwingnut effort to destroy confidence in the economy... which i believe is the single greatest reason things are stalled.

Obama's strategy failed. Let's try something else next year.

No, obstructionism won the battle of words, and will lose the war. I agree with Jilian, Obama has been too willing to compromise. Not that compromise is bad, but one does not compromise with a snake.

All you ever offer Mr. Fate is GOP dogma, dogma based on failure usually makes a thinking man change creed. Sadly you and others on the fringe don't think, so the concept that the ideas of others might have merit never occurs to you (or them), and in that lies your strength. It can also lead to a cliff, as a true believer it would benefit you to seek another road, but it is not in your nature.

Bullshit on obstuctionism. You had a majority in congress and the Presidency for two years. You passed a stimulus and then turned to your agenda of national health care, hoping everything would work out. It didn't and now it's too late. You had your chance and failed.

I'm not a republican.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Obama's strategy failed. Let's try something else next year.

No, obstructionism won the battle of words, and will lose the war. I agree with Jilian, Obama has been too willing to compromise. Not that compromise is bad, but one does not compromise with a snake.

All you ever offer Mr. Fate is GOP dogma, dogma based on failure usually makes a thinking man change creed. Sadly you and others on the fringe don't think, so the concept that the ideas of others might have merit never occurs to you (or them), and in that lies your strength. It can also lead to a cliff, as a true believer it would benefit you to seek another road, but it is not in your nature.

Bullshit on obstuctionism. You had a majority in congress and the Presidency for two years. You passed a stimulus and then turned to your agenda of national health care, hoping everything would work out. It didn't and now it's too late. You had your chance and failed.

I'm not a republican.

Well, most Republicans don't admit to being a (R)publican, most refer to their independence or conservative credentials, only because GWB&Co were the architects of the lost decade. No one likes being associated with falure, so whether you are a registered Republican or not is of little matter, you hold the same RW views which we will hear tonight on CNN.

Tonight, each candidate - Ron Paul excepted - will try to out-right the others and prove their reactonary credentials. Dr. Paul will also lay blame on Obama, but a constrained blame by recognizing the other candidates aren't different. Of course, Rep. Paul has his own 'extreme' views and will no doubt get little time to speak, for what he believes threatens the status quo and is his brand of "hope and change".

Watch and listen, while the goal of the right is not to chang our nation into a dystopian society, rather they support a society where the very rich make and enforce the laws. For the many that result destines us to a future as bleak as any distopian society in life or fiction.

 

[daveman]

Actually, yes, I can say it failed.

well, you can say it. but it's unsubstantiated. i think the way i put it is far more accurate.

can you say what unemployment would have been had the money not been spent?

i'm thinking no.

We were told it would be lower than it is now if we hadn't spent the money.

How'd that turn out?

That would have done far more for the country than the massive Democrat special interest group buyoff and payback, certainly.

a "democrat special interest group buyoff and payback". that's a facile allegation to make i've seen no evidence of that. and before you link me to an item or item(s), it would be meaningless to me absent a link to all funds spent and who was pushing them.

$800 billion stimulus package doled out based on politics; Districts with high unemployment shafted - Washington DC SCOTUS | Examiner.com

"How is stimulus money allocated? Unemployment isn't a factor, but politics is," found George Mason University researcher Veronique de Rugy in a recent study.

Districts where people are struggling and unemployment is high are not receiving any more money than those in which unemployment is low, even though a stated purpose of the $800 billion stimulus package was to help the unemployed. But politics mattered in doling out federal funds. And "Democratic districts also received two-and-a-half times more stimulus dollars than Republican districts."

The stimulus was ineffective even in the districts where most of it was spent. The number of jobs the government claims to have created is actually going down as the spending continues to rise.​

the tax cuts are the largest problem we had and continue to have.

No, we can't raise taxes enough to cover what we're spending. Spending HAS to be cut. Any plan that claims all we have to do is raise taxes simply isn't realistic.

It's the economy that's destroying confidence in the economy, and the incompetent way Obama's handling it.

again, it's easy for the right to continue that meme. but the day obama went into office, the right started the drumbeat. after a couple of months they started ranting and raving that the mess left for them wasn't fixed.

And after two and a half years, it STILL isn't fixed. How long are you going to give Obama free pass?

and we know that corporate america is sitting on 2 trillion dollars give or take that should be used for hiring.

even if they were worried about the future, they could use half of that.

What incentive do they have?

the problem isn't as simple as obama is this or obama is that. it's that type of process that keeps things stagnant. the right WANTS it to be this way so they have a shot in 2012 so they reduce the issue to sound bites.

the problem isn't as simple as Bush is this or Bush is that. Might want to tell Obama that...he's still running against Bush.

I'd say that if the economy were working well, most conservatives would be okay with leaving Democrats in control.

But it's not. It's worse.

 

[daveman]

And the sound bites will resound from all the candidates for the GOP nomination in tonights debate. I can hear it now, "it's Obma's fault, Obama's fault Obama's fault..."

As opposed to your sound bite: "It's Bush's fault!!"

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

can you say what unemployment would have been had the money not been spent?

Dear God, please do run on this in 2012.

 

[WillowTree]

Actually, yes, I can say it failed.

well, you can say it. but it's unsubstantiated. i think the way i put it is far more accurate.

can you say what unemployment would have been had the money not been spent?

i'm thinking no. ME: oh but hold on a minute,, your messiah did in fact say to us that if the money was not spent un employment would go to 8% he assure us in his usual fear mongering ways that we had to do the stimulus to keep unemployment from reaching 8%.. so it was spent and here we are at 9.1% as a national average but it is much higher in the inner cities..

That would have done far more for the country than the massive Democrat special interest group buyoff and payback, certainly.

a "democrat special interest group buyoff and payback". that's a facile allegation to make i've seen no evidence of that. and before you link me to an item or item(s), it would be meaningless to me absent a link to all funds spent and who was pushing them

the tax cuts are the largest problem we had and continue to have.

It's the economy that's destroying confidence in the economy, and the incompetent way Obama's handling it.

again, it's easy for the right to continue that meme. but the day obama went into office, the right started the drumbeat. after a couple of months they started ranting and raving that the mess left for them wasn't fixed.

and we know that corporate america is sitting on 2 trillion dollars give or take that should be used for hiring.

even if they were worried about the future, they could use half of that.

the problem isn't as simple as obama is this or obama is that. it's that type of process that keeps things stagnant. the right WANTS it to be this way so they have a shot in 2012 so they reduce the issue to sound bites.

.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Sounds lik the left's mantra for '12 is "Hey, its real bad, but it's all Bush's fault and if not for us, would be 3,000,000,000,000,000 times worse"

 

[editec]

How The Demand-Siders Ruined The U.S. Economy





Now consider that this pathetic recovery was “achieved” by a ridiculous increase of 54% in the U.S. public debt (from $9.3 trillion as the recession began in late-2007, to $14.3 trillion today) and of 211% in the Fed’s monetary base (from $825 billion to $2.5 trillion), which serves as latent rocket fuel for rising inflation rates. These numbers would be horrific enough were they merely the inadvertent fallout of otherwise reasonable and well-meaning public policies; but in truth the results are the inevitable result of two highly-acclaimed, widely applauded but deadly policy approaches: Keynesianism and Monetarism.










How The Demand-Siders Ruined The U.S. Economy - Richard M. Salsman - The Capitalist - Forbes







After reading this pay close attention to what they are saying.in dc.. more borrowing, more spending will get us out of this.. utter Bullshit.

The response to the BANKSTER'S MELTDOWN worked beautifully to SAVE THE BASTARDS.

That feeble and ridiculously underfunded STIMULUS to help the American economy was DESIGNED to fail.

Blaming keynesian economic response for failing to save the economy makes about as much sense as faulting SWIMMING for people who cannot SWIM all the way across the pool.

From WT's link: "What always drives a robust economy is not “consumers” per se but savers, investors, innovators and producers."

Let's not attack the messengers, instead let's offer a' real' world scenarior and test the axiom offered by Mr. Salsman.

A young man who loved pizza, saved his money and learned all he could about pizza makiing. He leaned how to make several forms of cheese from a secret source which tasted better than that used by the more expensive pizza chains, was lower in calories, cost less to produce and didn't mold or spoil and could be kept for months at room temperature.

He also studied baking and developed a crust which was low in carbs yet as tasty as an artisian bread and easliy formed into thin, thick and pan sizes. He opened is first store in San Francisco, and soon had shops in Chicago and New York. By 2011 his pizza was rated number 1 by by Zigat in San Francisco, Chicago and even New York.

Then the unexpected happened. A world wide crisis and the Panic of 2012 hit America. Banks refused to extend credit and many businesses could not make payroll. Lay-offs began slowly but by August unemployment was at an alltime high. His customers had money for only the essentials, and as both political parties fought over solutions, customers for his best ever pizza's dried up. Soon only bankers and ball players ordered pizza for delievery only, but only pizza and his profits became losses. For with few consumers to eat his pizza, no matter how tasty & how economical his innovative methods of production, his business failed.

The owner of the buidlings from whom he rented space in SF. Chitown and the Big Apple defaulted on their loan, for without the rent and do to the tight money no one would risk takikng on more debt.

Then in November an election changed everything. The newly elected government decided to put people to work. Contracts were issue to build a high speed intercontinental rail road, fix our electirc grid and fund local communities shovel ready projects.

An Apollo effort created millions of jobs, and most projects were on a 24/7 schedule. Our young innovative pizza maker now had shops all over America and was baking pies for three shifts of workers, consumming his product. He alone by 2014 had newly hired over 1,000 pizza pie makers supported by managers for his 342 (and growing) shops.

His suppliers too were able to expand as as not only did Best Pizza's orders create the need but the dozens of other businesses created by the wise new government flooded them with orders.

Soon tax revenue from all the workers and innovative entrepreneurs who enjoyed the profits from a steady supply of customers flooded the government. So much revenue that the treasury bills and notes and other debts incurred by the build up allowed the government to first balance the budget and then to begin to slash long term obligations.

If WT's sources can offer their fantasy, shouldn't we all be granted the opportunity? My fantasy seems much more realistic than the failed fanstasy which is supply side theory voo doo economics.

Fantasizing about how some business won or lost the game of capitalism, while amsuing and perhaps even inspiring, does nothing to address the issue of what's good or bad for the US MACRO economy.

Apparently when some people here fail to grasp is that the economy is not a scaled UP pizza joint and the business of America is NOT all about business, but instead its about taking care of the whole damned nation.

DEMAND-siders no more caused the BANSTERS MELT-DOWN than they could learn to shit gold nuggets.

Happy Horatio Alger fairy tales do not a MACRO-ECONOMY make.

 

[Wry Catcher]

And the sound bites will resound from all the candidates for the GOP nomination in tonights debate. I can hear it now, "it's Obma's fault, Obama's fault Obama's fault..."

As opposed to your sound bite: "It's Bush's fault!!"

daveboy, do you know the difference between apples and oranges?

You see Pres. Bush entered the White House at a time of peace and a stable economy visited by a weak recession, giving him the opportunity to reduce taxes, not once but twice.
On his watch America suffered the most terrible attack in our nations history, he responded by invading and occupying a nation which had nothing to do with the aforementioned attack. When Mr. Bush left office we were experiencing the great recession, huge debts and continue deficit speinding the war of choice was on-going and America was deeply divided.

You see when Pres. Obama took office we were in the midst of a great recession, fear plagued the people as banks had begun to fail and blue chip industries where on the brink of collapse. We had been losing jobs and job lose peaked at 800,000 in January 2009. When Obama took office we remained in Iraq at great cost of blood and treasure, deeply in debt and as divided as anytime since the Vietnam War.

One other point of difference, when Bush took office there was no group which actively hoped he would fail, and Democrats supported him in his response to 9/11; Obama, faced an organized effort to make sure he failed, and in my judgment and the judgment of others that effort is tantamount to treason.

 

[The Rabbi]

How The Demand-Siders Ruined The U.S. Economy





Now consider that this pathetic recovery was “achieved” by a ridiculous increase of 54% in the U.S. public debt (from $9.3 trillion as the recession began in late-2007, to $14.3 trillion today) and of 211% in the Fed’s monetary base (from $825 billion to $2.5 trillion), which serves as latent rocket fuel for rising inflation rates. These numbers would be horrific enough were they merely the inadvertent fallout of otherwise reasonable and well-meaning public policies; but in truth the results are the inevitable result of two highly-acclaimed, widely applauded but deadly policy approaches: Keynesianism and Monetarism.










How The Demand-Siders Ruined The U.S. Economy - Richard M. Salsman - The Capitalist - Forbes







After reading this pay close attention to what they are saying.in dc.. more borrowing, more spending will get us out of this.. utter Bullshit.

The response to the BANKSTER'S MELTDOWN worked beautifully to SAVE THE BASTARDS.

That feeble and ridiculously underfunded STIMULUS to help the American economy was DESIGNED to fail.

Blaming keynesian economic response for failing to save the economy makes about as much sense as faulting SWIMMING for people who cannot SWIM all the way across the pool.

The stimulus was a waste. Despite putting money into the hands of Americans, it wasn't nearly enough and it didn't carry through. Had they taken the entire stimulus and put it into infrastructure spending, it would have created a couple million jobs minimum. Spending from those jobs would have helped spur on the rest of the economy. That does not mean we would now have 4 or 5 percent unemployment, but it certainly would be a couple points lower than it is currently. On top of that, we would have actually seen something from the money as in new roads, bridges, water works projects, you name it. It would have benefited everyone, and it would still be going on.

Wrong.
What "infrastructure" are you going to spend it on? What happens when the project, and the money, ends? The same workers will be unemployed.
Construction today is not a bunch of guys with picks and shovels. It is one guy on a tractor. Your proposal would produce thousands of "bridges to nowhere" and "airports to nowhere". What economic use is that? Further, it would divert money from actual useful investments, like new equipment for businesses.
You persist in believing in the myth of the gov't multiplier effect. It isn't true and doesn't exist.

 

[daveman]

And the sound bites will resound from all the candidates for the GOP nomination in tonights debate. I can hear it now, "it's Obma's fault, Obama's fault Obama's fault..."

As opposed to your sound bite: "It's Bush's fault!!"

daveboy, do you know the difference between apples and oranges?

Yes. Do you know that if you call an apple an orange, it's still an apple?

Apparently not.

You see Pres. Bush entered the White House at a time of peace and a stable economy visited by a weak recession, giving him the opportunity to reduce taxes, not once but twice.
On his watch America suffered the most terrible attack in our nations history, he responded by invading and occupying a nation which had nothing to do with the aforementioned attack. When Mr. Bush left office we were experiencing the great recession, huge debts and continue deficit speinding the war of choice was on-going and America was deeply divided.

You see when Pres. Obama took office we were in the midst of a great recession, fear plagued the people as banks had begun to fail and blue chip industries where on the brink of collapse. We had been losing jobs and job lose peaked at 800,000 in January 2009. When Obama took office we remained in Iraq at great cost of blood and treasure, deeply in debt and as divided as anytime since the Vietnam War.

One other point of difference, when Bush took office there was no group which actively hoped he would fail...

Horseshit. You're either stupid for believing it, or you're lying. Which is it?

Of course, bear in mind the two aren't mutually exclusive.

...and Democrats supported him in his response to 9/11...

For about 10 minutes, then they started screeching about war crimes.

...Obama, faced an organized effort to make sure he failed, and in my judgment and the judgment of others that effort is tantamount to treason.

Your judgement is seriously fucked. Note to retard leftists: Disagreeing with Obama is NOT treason, no matter how much you'd like to execute those who do.

Your little tin god is NOT America.

Hmmmph. Remember when dissent was patriotic? That stopped in January of '09.

 

[The T]

The response to the BANKSTER'S MELTDOWN worked beautifully to SAVE THE BASTARDS.

That feeble and ridiculously underfunded STIMULUS to help the American economy was DESIGNED to fail.

Blaming keynesian economic response for failing to save the economy makes about as much sense as faulting SWIMMING for people who cannot SWIM all the way across the pool.

The stimulus was a waste. Despite putting money into the hands of Americans, it wasn't nearly enough and it didn't carry through. Had they taken the entire stimulus and put it into infrastructure spending, it would have created a couple million jobs minimum. Spending from those jobs would have helped spur on the rest of the economy. That does not mean we would now have 4 or 5 percent unemployment, but it certainly would be a couple points lower than it is currently. On top of that, we would have actually seen something from the money as in new roads, bridges, water works projects, you name it. It would have benefited everyone, and it would still be going on.

Wrong.
What "infrastructure" are you going to spend it on? What happens when the project, and the money, ends? The same workers will be unemployed.
Construction today is not a bunch of guys with picks and shovels. It is one guy on a tractor. Your proposal would produce thousands of "bridges to nowhere" and "airports to nowhere". What economic use is that? Further, it would divert money from actual useful investments, like new equipment for businesses.
You persist in believing in the myth of the gov't multiplier effect. It isn't true and doesn't exist.

These fuckers are trying to Live FDR through Obama all over again...And it IS having the same effect.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

As opposed to your sound bite: "It's Bush's fault!!"

daveboy, do you know the difference between apples and oranges?

Yes. Do you know that if you call an apple an orange, it's still an apple?

Apparently not.

Horseshit. You're either stupid for believing it, or you're lying. Which is it?

Of course, bear in mind the two aren't mutually exclusive.

...and Democrats supported him in his response to 9/11...

For about 10 minutes, then they started screeching about war crimes.

...Obama, faced an organized effort to make sure he failed, and in my judgment and the judgment of others that effort is tantamount to treason.

Your judgement is seriously fucked. Note to retard leftists: Disagreeing with Obama is NOT treason, no matter how much you'd like to execute those who do.

Your little tin god is NOT America.

Hmmmph. Remember when dissent was patriotic? That stopped in January of '09.

Do yourself a favor, put Wry on "ignore". You'll thank yourself.

 

[The T]

As opposed to your sound bite: "It's Bush's fault!!"

daveboy, do you know the difference between apples and oranges?

Yes. Do you know that if you call an apple an orange, it's still an apple?

Apparently not.

Horseshit. You're either stupid for believing it, or you're lying. Which is it?

Of course, bear in mind the two aren't mutually exclusive.

...and Democrats supported him in his response to 9/11...

For about 10 minutes, then they started screeching about war crimes.

...Obama, faced an organized effort to make sure he failed, and in my judgment and the judgment of others that effort is tantamount to treason.

Your judgement is seriously fucked. Note to retard leftists: Disagreeing with Obama is NOT treason, no matter how much you'd like to execute those who do.

Your little tin god is NOT America.

Hmmmph. Remember when dissent was patriotic? That stopped in January of '09.

How many times were we rimnded by the same cretins when GWB had the Chair? How Convenient they forget...

 

[daveman]

daveboy, do you know the difference between apples and oranges?

Yes. Do you know that if you call an apple an orange, it's still an apple?

Apparently not.

Horseshit. You're either stupid for believing it, or you're lying. Which is it?

Of course, bear in mind the two aren't mutually exclusive.

For about 10 minutes, then they started screeching about war crimes.

...Obama, faced an organized effort to make sure he failed, and in my judgment and the judgment of others that effort is tantamount to treason.

Your judgement is seriously fucked. Note to retard leftists: Disagreeing with Obama is NOT treason, no matter how much you'd like to execute those who do.

Your little tin god is NOT America.

Hmmmph. Remember when dissent was patriotic? That stopped in January of '09.

Do yourself a favor, put Wry on "ignore". You'll thank yourself.

Naaah. I love deflating stuffed shirts.

 

[daveman]

daveboy, do you know the difference between apples and oranges?

Yes. Do you know that if you call an apple an orange, it's still an apple?

Apparently not.

Horseshit. You're either stupid for believing it, or you're lying. Which is it?

Of course, bear in mind the two aren't mutually exclusive.

For about 10 minutes, then they started screeching about war crimes.

...Obama, faced an organized effort to make sure he failed, and in my judgment and the judgment of others that effort is tantamount to treason.

Your judgement is seriously fucked. Note to retard leftists: Disagreeing with Obama is NOT treason, no matter how much you'd like to execute those who do.

Your little tin god is NOT America.

Hmmmph. Remember when dissent was patriotic? That stopped in January of '09.

How many times were we rimnded by the same cretins when GWB had the Chair? How Convenient they forget...

 

[The T]

Yes. Do you know that if you call an apple an orange, it's still an apple?

Apparently not.

Horseshit. You're either stupid for believing it, or you're lying. Which is it?

Of course, bear in mind the two aren't mutually exclusive.

For about 10 minutes, then they started screeching about war crimes.

Your judgement is seriously fucked. Note to retard leftists: Disagreeing with Obama is NOT treason, no matter how much you'd like to execute those who do.

Your little tin god is NOT America.

Hmmmph. Remember when dissent was patriotic? That stopped in January of '09.

How many times were we rimnded by the same cretins when GWB had the Chair? How Convenient they forget...

These people aren't even Democrats any longer. They're statists because they made a 90 degree hard-left turn toward Marxism in my view...and most here that think Republicans are 'The Establishment', have bought into a LIE.

They fight against themselves...and are too friggin' stupid to realize it.

 

[daveman]

How many times were we rimnded by the same cretins when GWB had the Chair? How Convenient they forget...

These people aren't even Democrats any longer. They're statists because they made a 90 degree hard-left turn toward Marxism in my view...and most here that think Republicans are 'The Establishment', have bought into a LIE.

They fight against themselves...and are too friggin' stupid to realize it.

And what's really funny is that today's statists are the ideological equivalent of the 60's radicals...and the 60s radicals HATED government.