Reaching out to the Occupy People

[code1211]

For those whose primary concern in this issue is the prospect of rising taxes, one of the Occupy Movement's main objectives is the elimination of wasteful misuse of tax revenues and the implementation of substantial increases in the tax rates of the upper income levels.

Interesting.

That is exactly the Libertarian objective : the elimination of wasteful of legalized theft,ie, taxation.

.

Actually the Libertarian objective is the complete elimination of taxation, which is unrealistic. The Occupy Movement wants to eliminate wasteful misuse of tax revenues. Big difference.

There are certain things I like about the Libertarian philosophy. The problem is it tends to leave the track and plunge into an abyss at its extreme level. Briefly stated, I do not believe a society as complex as ours could possibly function, even survive, without considerable government guidance and control.

Something to keep in mind: Ron Paul is a physician. He is important to anyone and everyone he meets so he can survive with or without governmental organization. He would be just fine if the entire world were reduced to total anarchy. I would not. Would you?

The world is a dangerous place. I need a well organized society in which to live safely. That requires taxation. Anyone who tells you otherwise is prone to fantasy (or is running for President).

To me, one of the greatest wastes of public moneys is to squander them on the payments for things that people could and should procure for themselves.

 

[code1211]

I've been engaged in business for about 40 years as union and non-union labor, supervision, management and sales. I've bought and sold things to and from others for that entire period. I know a thing or two about doing business.

I don't understand how any of these things siphon money from me to them.

Don't think of it in terms of your individual situation but rather in terms of your social class. If you belong to the middle class and you are doing okay, you need to look more closely at what is happening around you. Because your turn will come. It's a matter of time.

Research the disparity in wealth distribution since Reaganomics was introduced. Middle class wages are and have been stagnant while the smallest segment of the population has become phenomenally wealthy. What was supposed to "trickle down" has been siphoned up. The numbers are there for you to see. The economy has been stood on its head. The union movement has been destroyed. Poverty and homelessness is on the rise. People who once had good, secure jobs and pensions are living in their cars.

And you can't see the problem?

I'm also not convinced that you understand what the terms you are using mean. Outsourcing can mean anything from hiring the neighbor kid to mow my lawn to relocating my production facility to a more friendly business environment.

Please explain. It might help to concentrate on only one and expand on it.

Outsourcing means the exportation of American jobs to foreign countries. Try calling customer service at your bank's number and you'll be talking to someone in India. That's just one example. And all of these ruinous things are the result of deregulation, which is the result of bribery of our legislators by corporate lobbyists.

Outsourcing, as you define it, is quite limited, but let's use your definition.

During what you apparently never experienced but do long for, the world outsourced its manufacturing to the USA because world had been bombed into oblivion, ironically enough, by the USA and the USSR.

Outsourcing was good then, but for us. Outsourcing is bad now, but for us. For the rest of the world, outsourcing is not a plan or a device, it is simply an outcome.

Our products are too expensive, meaning that our products are of a quality that can be duplicated at a lower expense elsewhere. Higher cost for same quality = lower value =lost sales.

Is your solution to increase the value of the products we manufacture? It doesn't sound like it. It sounds like your solution is to simply whine and cry and demand that we be allowed to produce inferior value products and demand the the world buy them.

The flaw in your thinking is that you have no clue how the world of commerce works.

 

[SniperFire]

Outsourcing means the exportation of American jobs to foreign countries.

No it doesn't.

 

[Sallow]

The right always reaches out with fixed bayonets and no desire for understanding.

I have to agree with that for myself personally. I can't answer for the entire right, but I have no desire whatsoever to understand the motivation of the thief, whether its a mugger in an alley or a man in suit here from the government.

I heard the perfect description of OWS this morning. It's Wayne's World living in the basement of the Golden Girls.

There is no perfect glib definition for such a diverse group of people with differing and often contradictory goals. Democracy is messy, fascism is clean and simple.

Damn straight.

 

[Sallow]

I've been engaged in business for about 40 years as union and non-union labor, supervision, management and sales. I've bought and sold things to and from others for that entire period. I know a thing or two about doing business.

I don't understand how any of these things siphon money from me to them.

Don't think of it in terms of your individual situation but rather in terms of your social class. If you belong to the middle class and you are doing okay, you need to look more closely at what is happening around you. Because your turn will come. It's a matter of time.

Research the disparity in wealth distribution since Reaganomics was introduced. Middle class wages are and have been stagnant while the smallest segment of the population has become phenomenally wealthy. What was supposed to "trickle down" has been siphoned up. The numbers are there for you to see. The economy has been stood on its head. The union movement has been destroyed. Poverty and homelessness is on the rise. People who once had good, secure jobs and pensions are living in their cars.

And you can't see the problem?

I'm also not convinced that you understand what the terms you are using mean. Outsourcing can mean anything from hiring the neighbor kid to mow my lawn to relocating my production facility to a more friendly business environment.

Please explain. It might help to concentrate on only one and expand on it.

Outsourcing means the exportation of American jobs to foreign countries. Try calling customer service at your bank's number and you'll be talking to someone in India. That's just one example. And all of these ruinous things are the result of deregulation, which is the result of bribery of our legislators by corporate lobbyists.

Outsourcing, as you define it, is quite limited, but let's use your definition.

During what you apparently never experienced but do long for, the world outsourced its manufacturing to the USA because world had been bombed into oblivion, ironically enough, by the USA and the USSR.

Outsourcing was good then, but for us. Outsourcing is bad now, but for us. For the rest of the world, outsourcing is not a plan or a device, it is simply an outcome.

Our products are too expensive, meaning that our products are of a quality that can be duplicated at a lower expense elsewhere. Higher cost for same quality = lower value =lost sales.

Is your solution to increase the value of the products we manufacture? It doesn't sound like it. It sounds like your solution is to simply whine and cry and demand that we be allowed to produce inferior value products and demand the the world buy them.

The flaw in your thinking is that you have no clue how the world of commerce works.

The type of outsourcing that happened over the last 30 years..was the result of a favorable tax environment. Part of it was a hold over from the Eisenhower administration, which deferred tax on profits made over seas..to encourage investment. There's no reason for it now. The second was tax holidays put out there by the Bush administration for repatriating overseas profit. There was never a reason for that one.

All that needs to go away..and anyone who outsources needs to get hit with penalties.

 

[Contumacious]

Actually the Libertarian objective is the complete elimination of taxation, which is unrealistic. The Occupy Movement wants to eliminate wasteful misuse of tax revenues. Big difference.

Wrong again.

The Libertarian position is to allow the property owner to exclusively determine what is wasteful spending.

.

 

[code1211]

Don't think of it in terms of your individual situation but rather in terms of your social class. If you belong to the middle class and you are doing okay, you need to look more closely at what is happening around you. Because your turn will come. It's a matter of time.

Research the disparity in wealth distribution since Reaganomics was introduced. Middle class wages are and have been stagnant while the smallest segment of the population has become phenomenally wealthy. What was supposed to "trickle down" has been siphoned up. The numbers are there for you to see. The economy has been stood on its head. The union movement has been destroyed. Poverty and homelessness is on the rise. People who once had good, secure jobs and pensions are living in their cars.

And you can't see the problem?


Outsourcing means the exportation of American jobs to foreign countries. Try calling customer service at your bank's number and you'll be talking to someone in India. That's just one example. And all of these ruinous things are the result of deregulation, which is the result of bribery of our legislators by corporate lobbyists.

Outsourcing, as you define it, is quite limited, but let's use your definition.

During what you apparently never experienced but do long for, the world outsourced its manufacturing to the USA because world had been bombed into oblivion, ironically enough, by the USA and the USSR.

Outsourcing was good then, but for us. Outsourcing is bad now, but for us. For the rest of the world, outsourcing is not a plan or a device, it is simply an outcome.

Our products are too expensive, meaning that our products are of a quality that can be duplicated at a lower expense elsewhere. Higher cost for same quality = lower value =lost sales.

Is your solution to increase the value of the products we manufacture? It doesn't sound like it. It sounds like your solution is to simply whine and cry and demand that we be allowed to produce inferior value products and demand the the world buy them.

The flaw in your thinking is that you have no clue how the world of commerce works.

The type of outsourcing that happened over the last 30 years..was the result of a favorable tax environment. Part of it was a hold over from the Eisenhower administration, which deferred tax on profits made over seas..to encourage investment. There's no reason for it now. The second was tax holidays put out there by the Bush administration for repatriating overseas profit. There was never a reason for that one.

All that needs to go away..and anyone who outsources needs to get hit with penalties.

To understand what you are saying:

You want to root out anyone who engages in international trade that still maintains a presence in the USA and then penalize them for maintaining that presence?

Will this encourage them to maintain that presence or just move to Dubai with everyone else?

 

[MikeK]

Outsourcing means the exportation of American jobs to foreign countries.

No it doesn't.

(Excerpt)

President Obama ad rips Mitt Romney for outsourcing jobs and for having a Swiss bank account.[...]

(Close)

More here: President Obama ad rips Mitt Romney for outsourcing*jobs, having a Swiss bank account * - NY Daily News

 

[MikeK]

Outsourcing, as you define it, is quite limited, but let's use your definition.

During what you apparently never experienced but do long for, the world outsourced its manufacturing to the USA because world had been bombed into oblivion, ironically enough, by the USA and the USSR.

Outsourcing was good then, but for us. Outsourcing is bad now, but for us. For the rest of the world, outsourcing is not a plan or a device, it is simply an outcome.

Our products are too expensive, meaning that our products are of a quality that can be duplicated at a lower expense elsewhere. Higher cost for same quality = lower value =lost sales.

Is your solution to increase the value of the products we manufacture? It doesn't sound like it. It sounds like your solution is to simply whine and cry and demand that we be allowed to produce inferior value products and demand the the world buy them.

The flaw in your thinking is that you have no clue how the world of commerce works.

The type of outsourcing that happened over the last 30 years..was the result of a favorable tax environment. Part of it was a hold over from the Eisenhower administration, which deferred tax on profits made over seas..to encourage investment. There's no reason for it now. The second was tax holidays put out there by the Bush administration for repatriating overseas profit. There was never a reason for that one.

All that needs to go away..and anyone who outsources needs to get hit with penalties.

To understand what you are saying:

You want to root out anyone who engages in international trade that still maintains a presence in the USA and then penalize them for maintaining that presence?

Will this encourage them to maintain that presence or just move to Dubai with everyone else?

There were ways to control expatriation of American industries (e.g., a severe exit penalty) but deregulation eliminated them. What is needed is resumption of rigid government control over American corporations and industries. They should not be allowed to exercise such control over the future and security of this Nation.

The right-wing corporatists have had their way for far too long and we presently are reaping the whirlwind of deregulation and dismantling of the New Deal.

 

[code1211]

The type of outsourcing that happened over the last 30 years..was the result of a favorable tax environment. Part of it was a hold over from the Eisenhower administration, which deferred tax on profits made over seas..to encourage investment. There's no reason for it now. The second was tax holidays put out there by the Bush administration for repatriating overseas profit. There was never a reason for that one.

All that needs to go away..and anyone who outsources needs to get hit with penalties.

To understand what you are saying:

You want to root out anyone who engages in international trade that still maintains a presence in the USA and then penalize them for maintaining that presence?

Will this encourage them to maintain that presence or just move to Dubai with everyone else?

There were ways to control expatriation of American industries (e.g., a severe exit penalty) but deregulation eliminated them. What is needed is resumption of rigid government control over American corporations and industries. They should not be allowed to exercise such control over the future and security of this Nation.

The right-wing corporatists have had their way for far too long and we presently are reaping the whirlwind of deregulation and dismantling of the New Deal.

Are you recommending nationalizing the industry of the United States and bringing it under state control?

Which model do you lean toward? Nazi Germany of Communist Russia?

 

[MikeK]

This fellow and those of you are trying to reach out to the occupy crowd?
Well your doing it all wrong.

The right always reaches out with fixed bayonets and no desire for understanding.

Not so. What I want is for you to leave me the Hell alone.

What you want is to have me support you.

The bayonet is not to force you to do anything but leave me the hell alone.

Understand?

I don't say this to offend you but it seems to me your mind has been poisoned by the ruthlessly selfish and bitterly contemptuous neo-Conservative philosophy. If I'm right you should give some thought to the ideas planted in your mind by the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. Because they can have a harmful effect on you in the long run.

 

[code1211]

The right always reaches out with fixed bayonets and no desire for understanding.

Not so. What I want is for you to leave me the Hell alone.

What you want is to have me support you.

The bayonet is not to force you to do anything but leave me the hell alone.

Understand?

I don't say this to offend you but it seems to me your mind has been poisoned by the ruthlessly selfish and bitterly contemptuous neo-Conservative philosophy. If I'm right you should give some thought to the ideas planted in your mind by the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. Because they can have a harmful effect on you in the long run.

Trying to pull you back into the discussion, YOU said that the right reaches out with fixed bayonets and no need for understanding.

I said that I'm not reaching out at all and just want to be left the hell alone.

Is there something that you want of me? If you goal is the same as mine, then reaching out for understanding is all you are asking. if that understanding also requires that i pay you something, then you have some "splaining" to do.

You are welcome to plant a new and better idea in my mind if you have one to plant.

Do you?

 

[code1211]

The type of outsourcing that happened over the last 30 years..was the result of a favorable tax environment. Part of it was a hold over from the Eisenhower administration, which deferred tax on profits made over seas..to encourage investment. There's no reason for it now. The second was tax holidays put out there by the Bush administration for repatriating overseas profit. There was never a reason for that one.

All that needs to go away..and anyone who outsources needs to get hit with penalties.

To understand what you are saying:

You want to root out anyone who engages in international trade that still maintains a presence in the USA and then penalize them for maintaining that presence?

Will this encourage them to maintain that presence or just move to Dubai with everyone else?

There were ways to control expatriation of American industries (e.g., a severe exit penalty) but deregulation eliminated them. What is needed is resumption of rigid government control over American corporations and industries. They should not be allowed to exercise such control over the future and security of this Nation.

The right-wing corporatists have had their way for far too long and we presently are reaping the whirlwind of deregulation and dismantling of the New Deal.

I googled Exit penalty and could not find one for business exiting the USA.

Do you have a link for this?

 

[saveliberty]

The right always reaches out with fixed bayonets and no desire for understanding.

Not so. What I want is for you to leave me the Hell alone.

What you want is to have me support you.

The bayonet is not to force you to do anything but leave me the hell alone.

Understand?

I don't say this to offend you but it seems to me your mind has been poisoned by the ruthlessly selfish and bitterly contemptuous neo-Conservative philosophy. If I'm right you should give some thought to the ideas planted in your mind by the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. Because they can have a harmful effect on you in the long run.

I make a general rule out of ignoring worthless anarchist whiners.