Raw reality on taxes; Rich vs poor

[NYcarbineer]

So, we all know that the rich pay income tax, and the poor do NOT pay income tax. The rich also pay higher payroll taxes than the poor or middle, simply because they earn more.

But Obama's Class War is about capital gains, which the rich pay a much smaller rate on.

Which led me to ask...........what % do poor people pay on their capital gains????????????

Oh. They don't pay capital gains taxes....do they?

So it has NOTHING to do with fairness, as poor people don't have capital gains, thus, the rich can't have a rate lower than someone who doesn't pay it at all.

So this is ONLY about greed. About wanting more of other peoples money. Has NOTHING to do with fairness or equality.

Unless you show me the folks in the ghetto who pay capital gains tax rates higher than a rich person.

The effective payroll tax rate on the lowest income quintile of households is 8.8%

The effective payroll tax rate on the highest income household?

5.7%

Historical Effective Federal Tax Rates for All Households

 

[DaGoose]

So, we all know that the rich pay income tax, and the poor do NOT pay income tax. The rich also pay higher payroll taxes than the poor or middle, simply because they earn more.

But Obama's Class War is about capital gains, which the rich pay a much smaller rate on.

Which led me to ask...........what % do poor people pay on their capital gains????????????

Oh. They don't pay capital gains taxes....do they?

So it has NOTHING to do with fairness, as poor people don't have capital gains, thus, the rich can't have a rate lower than someone who doesn't pay it at all.

So this is ONLY about greed. About wanting more of other peoples money. Has NOTHING to do with fairness or equality.

Unless you show me the folks in the ghetto who pay capital gains tax rates higher than a rich person.

One of the most ridiculous points I have ever heard

If I make $30,000 working all year in a sewer, why do I pay more in taxes than someone who made $30,000 in a stock trade?

How about because the money that person is investing in the stock market HAS ALREADY BEEN TAXED AS INCOME once before and now, not only are they risking it, but paying an additional 15% on whatever they make...why is this so hard for people to grasp?

Really? How much income tax do CEO's pay when they have NO income or only earn ONE DOLLAR per year?

10 CEOs On $1 Salaries (Apart From Their $Millions in Stock Options) | Business Pundit

.

 

[rightwinger]

So, we all know that the rich pay income tax, and the poor do NOT pay income tax. The rich also pay higher payroll taxes than the poor or middle, simply because they earn more.

But Obama's Class War is about capital gains, which the rich pay a much smaller rate on.

Which led me to ask...........what % do poor people pay on their capital gains????????????

Oh. They don't pay capital gains taxes....do they?

So it has NOTHING to do with fairness, as poor people don't have capital gains, thus, the rich can't have a rate lower than someone who doesn't pay it at all.

So this is ONLY about greed. About wanting more of other peoples money. Has NOTHING to do with fairness or equality.

Unless you show me the folks in the ghetto who pay capital gains tax rates higher than a rich person.

One of the most ridiculous points I have ever heard

If I make $30,000 working all year in a sewer, why do I pay more in taxes than someone who made $30,000 in a stock trade?

How about because the money that person is investing in the stock market HAS ALREADY BEEN TAXED AS INCOME once before and now, not only are they risking it, but paying an additional 15% on whatever they make...why is this so hard for people to grasp?

Bull Shit.....the money you bought the stock with was taxed. You only pay capital gains on the profit from that money

 

[peach174]

It did not work in the 70's when they did this and it had a disastrous effect.
People stopped putting their money at risk.

Forbes: Hiking capital gains tax punishes rich - CBS News

Why capital gains taxes retard economic growth

When you sell your home you pay capital gains tax.
What do you think this will do to our housing market?

 

[martybegan]

Of course poor people do not generally pay capital gains taxes (although there are people with negative net worths and substantial investments). The arguments for raising taxes on investment income are not premised on any contrary assumption.

Your thinking suggests that no one should pay capital gains taxes unless everyone does (which of course they don't). Perhaps nobody should pay payroll taxes either, for the same reason. Is that your notion of fairness?

Is it greedy to support higher taxes on the wealthy in order to support the poor and the middle class? I know plenty of people who would pay higher taxes under some sort of "tax the rich" plan and who nevertheless support such plans. Are they greedy? Or are there other reasons someone would support shifting societal responsibilities more towards those best able to pay?

Asking yourself "What is fair?" without any recourse to societal realities cannot possibly tell you what the "correct" tax rate is (supposing there is one).

The government was never intended to support one group of people using the money of others. That is a modern creation.

The question isn't whether some people of means would support such a plan, it is that you are basically using the government's pistol to force others to pay for stuff they do not benefit from.

 

[Sallow]

So, we all know that the rich pay income tax, and the poor do NOT pay income tax. The rich also pay higher payroll taxes than the poor or middle, simply because they earn more.

But Obama's Class War is about capital gains, which the rich pay a much smaller rate on.

Which led me to ask...........what % do poor people pay on their capital gains????????????

Oh. They don't pay capital gains taxes....do they?

So it has NOTHING to do with fairness, as poor people don't have capital gains, thus, the rich can't have a rate lower than someone who doesn't pay it at all.

So this is ONLY about greed. About wanting more of other peoples money. Has NOTHING to do with fairness or equality.

Unless you show me the folks in the ghetto who pay capital gains tax rates higher than a rich person.

One of the most ridiculous points I have ever heard

If I make $30,000 working all year in a sewer, why do I pay more in taxes than someone who made $30,000 in a stock trade?

because you cant lose $$ working in the sewer, and you didnt have to put in an inital investment to work in that sewer (FYI, i kinda work in sewers).

Also note that the sewer workers pension and/or 401k also made a better return of that lower tax rate, if the stock in there did well.

Neither do most hedge fund managers..or brokers..or a plethora of other people in the stock trade. Your whole premise is crap.

 

[Sallow]

Of course poor people do not generally pay capital gains taxes (although there are people with negative net worths and substantial investments). The arguments for raising taxes on investment income are not premised on any contrary assumption.

Your thinking suggests that no one should pay capital gains taxes unless everyone does (which of course they don't). Perhaps nobody should pay payroll taxes either, for the same reason. Is that your notion of fairness?

Is it greedy to support higher taxes on the wealthy in order to support the poor and the middle class? I know plenty of people who would pay higher taxes under some sort of "tax the rich" plan and who nevertheless support such plans. Are they greedy? Or are there other reasons someone would support shifting societal responsibilities more towards those best able to pay?

Asking yourself "What is fair?" without any recourse to societal realities cannot possibly tell you what the "correct" tax rate is (supposing there is one).

The government was never intended to support one group of people using the money of others. That is a modern creation.

The question isn't whether some people of means would support such a plan, it is that you are basically using the government's pistol to force others to pay for stuff they do not benefit from.

True. Time to cut the spigot on the Miltary/Industrial complex..and other corporate welfare/socialism..no?

 

[martybegan]

One of the most ridiculous points I have ever heard

If I make $30,000 working all year in a sewer, why do I pay more in taxes than someone who made $30,000 in a stock trade?

because you cant lose $$ working in the sewer, and you didnt have to put in an inital investment to work in that sewer (FYI, i kinda work in sewers).

Also note that the sewer workers pension and/or 401k also made a better return of that lower tax rate, if the stock in there did well.

Neither do most hedge fund managers..or brokers..or a plethora of other people in the stock trade. Your whole premise is crap.

So you bring up one exception and my whole premise is crap? Bullshit.

Most of those people, like brokers, make salary as well, and they are taxed at that salried rate. The issue with hedge fund managers is seperate, and yet they still can not make much if said fund they work on shits to bed. They have risk in thier income, which a sewer worker does not. His salary is paid regardless of shit actually flowing in the pipe or not.

When it comes to stock options as compenstation, there is always the possibility of those options being worthless, again risk.

 

[martybegan]

Of course poor people do not generally pay capital gains taxes (although there are people with negative net worths and substantial investments). The arguments for raising taxes on investment income are not premised on any contrary assumption.

Your thinking suggests that no one should pay capital gains taxes unless everyone does (which of course they don't). Perhaps nobody should pay payroll taxes either, for the same reason. Is that your notion of fairness?

Is it greedy to support higher taxes on the wealthy in order to support the poor and the middle class? I know plenty of people who would pay higher taxes under some sort of "tax the rich" plan and who nevertheless support such plans. Are they greedy? Or are there other reasons someone would support shifting societal responsibilities more towards those best able to pay?

Asking yourself "What is fair?" without any recourse to societal realities cannot possibly tell you what the "correct" tax rate is (supposing there is one).

The government was never intended to support one group of people using the money of others. That is a modern creation.

The question isn't whether some people of means would support such a plan, it is that you are basically using the government's pistol to force others to pay for stuff they do not benefit from.

True. Time to cut the spigot on the Miltary/Industrial complex..and other corporate welfare/socialism..no?

Such a simple, expected response.

The defense contractors provide a service or a product. You pay them money, you get a tank.

When it comes to things like welfare, and federal employment, all we get for our $$ is someone else benefiting, and more overhead and regulation.

Defense is mandated by the consitution as a federal responsibility, remember?

 

[martybegan]

So, we all know that the rich pay income tax, and the poor do NOT pay income tax. The rich also pay higher payroll taxes than the poor or middle, simply because they earn more.

But Obama's Class War is about capital gains, which the rich pay a much smaller rate on.

Which led me to ask...........what % do poor people pay on their capital gains????????????

Oh. They don't pay capital gains taxes....do they?

So it has NOTHING to do with fairness, as poor people don't have capital gains, thus, the rich can't have a rate lower than someone who doesn't pay it at all.

So this is ONLY about greed. About wanting more of other peoples money. Has NOTHING to do with fairness or equality.

Unless you show me the folks in the ghetto who pay capital gains tax rates higher than a rich person.

The effective payroll tax rate on the lowest income quintile of households is 8.8%

The effective payroll tax rate on the highest income household?

5.7%

Historical Effective Federal Tax Rates for All Households

Thats because once you hit the cap, everyone gets the same level of benefits. If you want to lift the cap, then by the logic of Social security, your benefits recived should go up proportionally.

If you lift the cap, then limit benefits, then one of the cornerstones of the concept of social security goes away, the inherent equalness of the system. It then becomes just another money transfer from people with means to the masses.

 

[Sallow]

The government was never intended to support one group of people using the money of others. That is a modern creation.

The question isn't whether some people of means would support such a plan, it is that you are basically using the government's pistol to force others to pay for stuff they do not benefit from.

True. Time to cut the spigot on the Miltary/Industrial complex..and other corporate welfare/socialism..no?

Such a simple, expected response.

The defense contractors provide a service or a product. You pay them money, you get a tank.

When it comes to things like welfare, and federal employment, all we get for our $$ is someone else benefiting, and more overhead and regulation.

Defense is mandated by the consitution as a federal responsibility, remember?

Ah so..

Now wealth redistribution is a good thing.

And NOTHING in the constitution MANDATES using private enterprise to supply our defensive capability.

Indeed, conservatives were vehemently against buying war ships to combat the barbary pirates back in the day. For that VERY reason.

 

[Ame®icano]

So, we all know that the rich pay income tax, and the poor do NOT pay income tax. The rich also pay higher payroll taxes than the poor or middle, simply because they earn more.

But Obama's Class War is about capital gains, which the rich pay a much smaller rate on.

Which led me to ask...........what % do poor people pay on their capital gains????????????

Oh. They don't pay capital gains taxes....do they?

So it has NOTHING to do with fairness, as poor people don't have capital gains, thus, the rich can't have a rate lower than someone who doesn't pay it at all.

So this is ONLY about greed. About wanting more of other peoples money. Has NOTHING to do with fairness or equality.

Unless you show me the folks in the ghetto who pay capital gains tax rates higher than a rich person.

One of the most ridiculous points I have ever heard

If I make $30,000 working all year in a sewer, why do I pay more in taxes than someone who made $30,000 in a stock trade?

You're forgetting that money that someone invested in the stock market is already taxed.

 

[Ame®icano]

The rich also pay higher payroll taxes than the poor or middle, simply because they earn more.

Actually, this is not true. Since payroll taxes cap out just over $100K, anyone making over that amount pays a smaller and smaller percentage of their income in payroll taxes. Someone making $1M a year pays about 0.62% in payroll taxes. Compared to someone making $50K who pays, normally, 6.2%.

Not true.

Only SS is capped.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Christ, you read through a thread like this, and it ALWAYS becomes quite clear that liberals are economically illiterate to the fucking core.

Entertaining shit indeed!

 

[martybegan]

True. Time to cut the spigot on the Miltary/Industrial complex..and other corporate welfare/socialism..no?

Such a simple, expected response.

The defense contractors provide a service or a product. You pay them money, you get a tank.

When it comes to things like welfare, and federal employment, all we get for our $$ is someone else benefiting, and more overhead and regulation.

Defense is mandated by the consitution as a federal responsibility, remember?

Ah so..

Now wealth redistribution is a good thing.

And NOTHING in the constitution MANDATES using private enterprise to supply our defensive capability.

Indeed, conservatives were vehemently against buying war ships to combat the barbary pirates back in the day. For that VERY reason.

How is it redistribution when someone provides a product or a service?

nothing in the consitution prevents it either. In the beginning it was easier to manufcature arms in government mills, but with increased weapon complexity, it became easier to contract it out, and thus not be stuck with a bunch of plants and personnel you no longer need.

Please inform me how selling a tank to the government consitutes wealth redistribution.

 

[rightwinger]

So, we all know that the rich pay income tax, and the poor do NOT pay income tax. The rich also pay higher payroll taxes than the poor or middle, simply because they earn more.

But Obama's Class War is about capital gains, which the rich pay a much smaller rate on.

Which led me to ask...........what % do poor people pay on their capital gains????????????

Oh. They don't pay capital gains taxes....do they?

So it has NOTHING to do with fairness, as poor people don't have capital gains, thus, the rich can't have a rate lower than someone who doesn't pay it at all.

So this is ONLY about greed. About wanting more of other peoples money. Has NOTHING to do with fairness or equality.

Unless you show me the folks in the ghetto who pay capital gains tax rates higher than a rich person.

One of the most ridiculous points I have ever heard

If I make $30,000 working all year in a sewer, why do I pay more in taxes than someone who made $30,000 in a stock trade?

You're forgetting that money that someone invested in the stock market is already taxed.

The money you put into he stock market is already taxed....you do not pay taxes on that

You DO pay taxes on the profit that money makes in the market