Raising the minimum wage again? Fucking brilliant!

[AquaAthena]

And let's just print up more money to pay it!

State Minimum Wage Increases Could Boost Stalled Federal Push - FoxNews.com

ANY minimum wage is the worst thing you can do to an economy. It ultimately ends up beating down the very ones it is intended to lift.

Economic ignorance at its finest!

Yes, "economic ignorance at its finest", is true. I don't believe in the minimum wage as it causes inflation....something we REALLY need. It also causes unemployment as employers will lay off workers they can't afford, and do the jobs themselves. Many minimum wage earners I have known are being overpaid..

 

[Wry Catcher]

I'm very bright, and I have the ability to look beyond the obvious and the emotional in an effort to understand an issue or a policy.

This claim wins for prevarication of the month.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Care4all]

I'm not contending it keeps the economy from growing. I'm contending it creates unemployment. Most economists accept that as a fundamental truth where the concept of a minimum wage is concerned.

is there any proof that it has increased the country's overall unemployment rate the past several decades after the minimum wage hikes that have occurred? From my at a glance on it, I saw no increased unemployment rates for our country after the federal minimum wage hikes over the past decades?

Well that was predictable................

Come on Care you're not really gonna try to be this obtuse are you? Focus on the OP. Minimum wage laws hurt the people they are supposeldy trying help. Those people would be those making minimum wage. To your point that unemployment rates haven't gone up as a result, does the unemployment rate include ONLY people making minimum wage? NO. We're talking about one specific segment of the labor pool; those making minimum wage. And just because unemployment rises within that specific segment doesn't mean it can't stay the same or go down when all of the other income segments of the labor pool are figured in.

Everything BOTH sides in this debate have said so far is accurate. The minimum wage does indeed hurt those it tries to help; those only making minimum wage. Will that be reflected in overall unemployment figures? Probably not. Will fewer minimum wage workers hurt the economic growth of an economy? Also, probably not as it really only effects the unskilled whom, to be brutally honest, aren't contributing a lot to the economy anyway.

I think the real issue here is how politicians try to sell the minimum wage to voters. They try to make it sound like they're helping the little guy. Sure they're giving some more take home income, but they are taking away all of other people's income. Anyone who thinks sensically for two seconds can see that. I love economics because most of it is simple economic sense. And what doesn't make any sense is that there is going to be an increase in the number of minimum wage workers if a business has to spend more on them.

bern, it is not so black and white. Just because minimum wages are raised minimally DOES NOT MEAN that it's an automatic fail....smart small businesses can work on increasing employees productivity to compensate, or reducing their overhead costs, or turning off the lights at night, working more discounts with vendors etc.

as i have said, it has not raised unemployment rates overall....yes those at the lowest menial positions could be dismissed initially by those business owners who have no clue on how to run a business or improve a business, but overall, it has helped more than hurt, the overall economy....imho

 

[Revere]

Who is helped if employers can only hire 6 employees at $8/hr instead of 8 employees at $6/hr?

 

[Trajan]

is there any proof that it has increased the country's overall unemployment rate the past several decades after the minimum wage hikes that have occurred? From my at a glance on it, I saw no increased unemployment rates for our country after the federal minimum wage hikes over the past decades?

Well that was predictable................

Come on Care you're not really gonna try to be this obtuse are you? Focus on the OP. Minimum wage laws hurt the people they are supposeldy trying help. Those people would be those making minimum wage. To your point that unemployment rates haven't gone up as a result, does the unemployment rate include ONLY people making minimum wage? NO. We're talking about one specific segment of the labor pool; those making minimum wage. And just because unemployment rises within that specific segment doesn't mean it can't stay the same or go down when all of the other income segments of the labor pool are figured in.

Everything BOTH sides in this debate have said so far is accurate. The minimum wage does indeed hurt those it tries to help; those only making minimum wage. Will that be reflected in overall unemployment figures? Probably not. Will fewer minimum wage workers hurt the economic growth of an economy? Also, probably not as it really only effects the unskilled whom, to be brutally honest, aren't contributing a lot to the economy anyway.

I think the real issue here is how politicians try to sell the minimum wage to voters. They try to make it sound like they're helping the little guy. Sure they're giving some more take home income, but they are taking away all of other people's income. Anyone who thinks sensically for two seconds can see that. I love economics because most of it is simple economic sense. And what doesn't make any sense is that there is going to be an increase in the number of minimum wage workers if a business has to spend more on them.

bern, it is not so black and white. Just because minimum wages are raised minimally DOES NOT MEAN that it's an automatic fail....smart small businesses can work on increasing employees productivity to compensate, or reducing their overhead costs, or turning off the lights at night, working more discounts with vendors etc.

as i have said, it has not raised unemployment rates overall....yes those at the lowest menial positions could be dismissed initially by those business owners who have no clue on how to run a business or improve a business, but overall, it has helped more than hurt, the overall economy....imho

I have to do it Care, I have to ask to see the validation of;

" it has helped more than hurt, the overall economy"

 

[boedicca]

bern, it is not so black and white. Just because minimum wages are raised minimally DOES NOT MEAN that it's an automatic fail....smart small businesses can work on increasing employees productivity to compensate, or reducing their overhead costs, or turning off the lights at night, working more discounts with vendors etc.

as i have said, it has not raised unemployment rates overall....yes those at the lowest menial positions could be dismissed initially by those business owners who have no clue on how to run a business or improve a business, but overall, it has helped more than hurt, the overall economy....imho

In a robust economy, what you claim may be feasible, although most successful small businesses already do everything they can to be efficient. Given the current economic situation, it's doubtful such measures haven't already been implemented.

 

[boedicca]

Who is helped if employers can only hire 6 employees at $8/hr instead of 8 employees at $6/hr?

The ECONOMY! Those two workers who weren't hired will continue on unemployment benefits which, as Pelosi tells us, is the best way to spur economic growth!

 

[loosecannon]

I don't believe in the minimum wage as it causes inflation....

That's a myth.

"inflation is ever and always a monetary phenomena" ~Milton Friedman

 

[Bern80]

I'm very bright, and I have the ability to look beyond the obvious and the emotional in an effort to understand an issue or a policy. The fact is I asked a basic question, what evidence is there to prove the assertion by the OP?

Good. Than it should be objectively and intuitively obvious to the most casual observer (that would be you) that if a business has to pay more for labor the liklihood of it actually hiring more labor is rather poor. More likely it will cut its least skilled, least valued labor. Which usually just so happen to be the ones making min wage.

At best you can maybe accuse the OP of only telling half the story. It is an incontestable fact that when the min wage goes up, the number of min wage jobs goes down. That hurts the people it's trying to help. It hurst because some making minimum wage lose their jobs and because their are fewer jobs available to those looking for min wage jobs. Yes admittedly it does help some of those people by giving them more income. But it is a policy that certainly comes at a sacrafice to others. The question simply is, is it worth it?

 

[loosecannon]

This is the worst possible moment to suggest increasing the minimum wage.

 

[Revere]

Obama is running out of class warfare, wedge issues. He just extended tax rates for the "rich," 'member?

 

[loosecannon]

maybe they should borrow a few from the repubs?

 

[Big Black Dog]

I don't believe in a required minimum wage law. If you don't like what they employer want to pay you, don't work for him.

Are you really not very bright BBD? Have you no ability to think past ideology and see the consequences of what you propose?
Have you no background in history? A book on the history of labor in America might give you some perspective on what happens when the working people are pitted against each other, wages are supressed and any hope to better oneself is quashed by a nations powerful elites.
The right fears a radicalized left, and everything they do seems geared to create the political climate to create what they so fear.

While I don't pretend to be overly bright, the fact still remains. If you don't like what someone is wiling to pay you, fuck him. Go somewhere else for employment. Why do you insist on excessive government regulations? I believe an employee should be paid for what he or she is worth on their own merits.

 

[Care4all]

bern, it is not so black and white. Just because minimum wages are raised minimally DOES NOT MEAN that it's an automatic fail....smart small businesses can work on increasing employees productivity to compensate, or reducing their overhead costs, or turning off the lights at night, working more discounts with vendors etc.

as i have said, it has not raised unemployment rates overall....yes those at the lowest menial positions could be dismissed initially by those business owners who have no clue on how to run a business or improve a business, but overall, it has helped more than hurt, the overall economy....imho

In a robust economy, what you claim may be feasible, although most successful small businesses already do everything they can to be efficient. Given the current economic situation, it's doubtful such measures haven't already been implemented.

you are more than likely right....many businesses have probably already dotted every I, and crossed every T.....but these 7 states in the article op, are raising their State minimum wage by merely 9-12 CENTS, which will NOT hurt the economy.

Do you not believe in State rights either?

I can understand the objections of the federal minimum wage, but I can not, see the objection to a State minimum wage ....minimal hike such as these 7 states.

 

[Wry Catcher]

From the OP: "ANY minimum wage is the worst thing you can do to an economy. It ultimately ends up beating down the very ones it is intended to lift."

The study suggesting minimum wage laws cause the unemployment rate to increase in the lowest paid and unskilled set appears to be true (accoring to one study). But to suggest they are the worst thing you can do to an economy remains unproved, unanswered and fails to address the consequences of allowing 'the market' to decide upon a fair wage.
When one works and continues to fall behind consequences having greater social implications than unemployment may befall a nation. See my example above regarding social unrest.

 

[loosecannon]

"I can understand the objections of the federal minimum wage, but I can not, see the objection to a State minimum wage ....minimal hike such as these 7 states."

The class warriors who serve wealth are ideologically adverse to minimum wage increases. That explains their objections.

This increase hurts nobody, helps nobody. But at a time when Americans need to be bracing for wage decrease and tax increase shouldn't we be talking more about installing a maximum wage via increasing the leverage of progressive taxation?

 

[Revere]

You mean permanent 10% unemployment is an acceptable trade off for higher minimum wages?

We tell those 16 million people to fuck off so we can make $6/hr jobs into $8/hr jobs?

 

[Sallow]

I don't believe in a required minimum wage law. If you don't like what they employer want to pay you, don't work for him.

You may have a point.

Should there be an amendment to separate Government and Business?

Like government can't tell businesses that they should pay minimum wage? Or set maximum working hours?

We could extend that too. No more government contracts. Government builds it's own planes, ships, cars, and just about everything else government needs. In fact..government could start it's own work force to get this stuff done. Completely get rid of private contracting.

We could also repeal patents and copyrights. Get rid of those pesky contracts that need to be settled in government courts. Heck..lets be completely "Laissez-faire" only.."really" completely. Business is in the same boat as labor. No protection.

Sound good?

 

[Bern80]

bern, it is not so black and white. Just because minimum wages are raised minimally DOES NOT MEAN that it's an automatic fail....smart small businesses can work on increasing employees productivity to compensate, or reducing their overhead costs, or turning off the lights at night, working more discounts with vendors etc.

Yes they could. I just don't see that the singular benefit of a few people getting more take home pay overrides the negatives of increased unemployment and less capital for a business to work with.

as i have said, it has not raised unemployment rates overall....yes those at the lowest menial positions could be dismissed initially by those business owners who have no clue on how to run a business or improve a business, but overall, it has helped more than hurt, the overall economy....imho

How? How SPECIFICALLY does it help the economy to give a very few people a few more cents an hour? I CAN tell you specically what the negatives are; Fewer minimum wage jobs, increased unemployment among min wage workers, less money for a business to work with, inflation,....to name a few. Those are really acceptable drawbacks to you?

 

[AquaAthena]

I don't believe in the minimum wage as it causes inflation....

That's a myth.

"inflation is ever and always a monetary phenomena" ~Milton Friedman

If an employer is forced to pay an employee more money per hour, then he or she must increase the price of their product. Your next cheeseburger could be $7.00 instead of what it is now. Same with groceries. Anything. The government should keep it's power and control to itself and let a free market economy determine prosperity for all.