Raising taxes on wealthy would cost 710,000 jobs, Ernst & Young study finds

[Lakhota]

Boehner Revives Flawed Study To Defend Tax Cuts For The Wealthy | ThinkProgress

 

[gallantwarrior]

It just ain't worth it, you're not going to get enough revenue from the tax hike to make a difference in the debt/deficits. It's like concentrating on less than ten cents out of every dollar instead of the other 90. What we have is a spending problem, if the president is really interested in cutting the deficts, that's where he's gotta go first.

This so-called president could give a flying fuck in a monkey's ass about spending, as long as he can punish the prosperous.

 

[Papageorgio]

Businesses are sitting on historic levels of cash because they don't have enough customers.

Their customers are functionally bankrupt after 30 years of borrowing.

Look at household debt from 1955-1980. Then compare that to the time period from 1980-2005.

You will discover something amazing. Starting in 1980 American families started borrowing like crazy in order to maintain their standard of living. As jobs were shipped to China (so American business could profit from ultra-cheap labor), credit-based consumption began to replace wage-based-consumption.

Unfortunately, the debt bomb exploded in 2008 and now there is a generation-long debt overhang which is suppressing consumption. The economy won't pick up until consumers are in a position to spend - until the bad debt works its way out of the system. Businesses will not add one job until consumers hae the money to buy their stuff.

Don't listen to this thread. Anything tied to the Chamber of Commerce is ideological warfare. These are the same groups who praised Greenspan and said sub-prime mortgages were innovate instruments.

God help us. People actually believe this shit.

We started buying on credit to keep up with the Joneses, the problem was the Joneses were broke. It wasn't jobs shipped overseas in the 80's. that didn't take hold until the 90's. People are very stupid when it comes to handling money. They have no clue as to what an investment is and what a luxury is. The have no idea what was good or bad debt. They think buying a house is an investment. They think a savings account is a safe move.
In the 90's people were borrowing 125% of their properties value, and then rocking up more debt. American consumers, businesses and government were not living within their means.

 

[Lakhota]

The Absurd Zombie Lie About the Economy Right-Wingers Desperately Cling To -- And Why It's Totally Wrong | Alternet

 

[gallantwarrior]

Okay, so we have this huge deficit.

We can't raise revenue through higher taxes because it will cost jobs.

We can't cut spending because it will cost jobs.

What's your plan to deal with the deficit in a way that won't cost jobs?

Been saying this for 4 fucking years. The only real solution, the only thing that will really get us out of this, especially if we are unwilling to Make major Cuts and Reforms, is Economic expansion. Grow the Tax base.

But none of this is going to mean anything if we continue to spend at 2009 Levels and never make any cuts. Why the hell do you think the Dems have failed to pass a budget in 4 years? They got their massive 2009 Budget with massive increases in spending across the board, and now they are happy to just keep passing emergency extensions of that level of spending. A level of spending that at the time we were told was temporary in response to massive economic Crisis.

We were told ending the wars would save us all this cash, yet we still continue to spend even more than we did when Both wars were at full tilt, when one is over and the other is winding down.

The truth is clear, even if the American people are to ignorant to see it, Obama and the Dems have no intentions to cut spending on anything not related to Defense, they have no real intentions to reform entitlements, and they have no plan other than "tax the rich" to balance the budget. Yet the ignorant lemming American Public still says they will blame the GOP if we go over the Cliff.

America, you deserve exactly what you get for being so very naive.

Much of our extra spending is due to the fact we have so many people out of work. Get them back to work and two things happen, the tax base increases but also spending on things like unemployment, Medicaid, and many social programs will drop as those same people go back to work. Even with that there will not be enough revenue at current rates. Taxes will have to increase a little. After that, we have to do something about Medicare, and to a lesser degree SS. Nobody wants to discuss it in earnest and that is a problem, because any solution is going to take both parties agreeing to any real solution. I imagine what I want to see happen will eventually as no other solution will come about and there will be no other option than to raise the retirement age for both programs.

The problem is: government is more than willing to increase taxes but reluctant (at best) to decrease spending. There has to be a WORKABLE balance.

 

[Cowman]

I love how conservatives hate workers having power to bring things crashing down if they get mistreated, but they love rich people and business owners firing thousands of people in spite.

I actually only have a problem with workers bringing things crashing down, when you are talking about Public sector unions who are paid by Tax payers, and negotiate their contracts with said government with corrupted bought off Negotiators that give them what ever they want.

In the Private sector the Companies have a profit motive which means they do not simply give in to the demands of labor, and pass the bill down the road till after they are no longer in office.

Even FDR warned of the Dangerous of Public sector Unions while champion unions in the Private sector. I thought you guys worshiped FDR? His wisdom on this issue not fit into your narrative?

Nobody fucking worships any president. Don't be a fucking retard.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I love how conservatives hate workers having power to bring things crashing down if they get mistreated, but they love rich people and business owners firing thousands of people in spite.

I actually only have a problem with workers bringing things crashing down, when you are talking about Public sector unions who are paid by Tax payers, and negotiate their contracts with said government with corrupted bought off Negotiators that give them what ever they want.

In the Private sector the Companies have a profit motive which means they do not simply give in to the demands of labor, and pass the bill down the road till after they are no longer in office.

Even FDR warned of the Dangerous of Public sector Unions while champion unions in the Private sector. I thought you guys worshiped FDR? His wisdom on this issue not fit into your narrative?

Nobody fucking worships any president. Don't be a fucking retard.

Really? Couldn't fucking prove it by most post by libtards on this forum.

 

[auditor0007]

Been saying this for 4 fucking years. The only real solution, the only thing that will really get us out of this, especially if we are unwilling to Make major Cuts and Reforms, is Economic expansion. Grow the Tax base.

But none of this is going to mean anything if we continue to spend at 2009 Levels and never make any cuts. Why the hell do you think the Dems have failed to pass a budget in 4 years? They got their massive 2009 Budget with massive increases in spending across the board, and now they are happy to just keep passing emergency extensions of that level of spending. A level of spending that at the time we were told was temporary in response to massive economic Crisis.

We were told ending the wars would save us all this cash, yet we still continue to spend even more than we did when Both wars were at full tilt, when one is over and the other is winding down.

The truth is clear, even if the American people are to ignorant to see it, Obama and the Dems have no intentions to cut spending on anything not related to Defense, they have no real intentions to reform entitlements, and they have no plan other than "tax the rich" to balance the budget. Yet the ignorant lemming American Public still says they will blame the GOP if we go over the Cliff.

America, you deserve exactly what you get for being so very naive.

Much of our extra spending is due to the fact we have so many people out of work. Get them back to work and two things happen, the tax base increases but also spending on things like unemployment, Medicaid, and many social programs will drop as those same people go back to work. Even with that there will not be enough revenue at current rates. Taxes will have to increase a little. After that, we have to do something about Medicare, and to a lesser degree SS. Nobody wants to discuss it in earnest and that is a problem, because any solution is going to take both parties agreeing to any real solution. I imagine what I want to see happen will eventually as no other solution will come about and there will be no other option than to raise the retirement age for both programs.

The problem is: government is more than willing to increase taxes but reluctant (at best) to decrease spending. There has to be a WORKABLE balance.

I agree completely, but we have Republicans insisting that taxes will not be raised on anyone, and then Democrats insisting that there be some tax increases to go along with spending cuts. The problem on the Dem side is that very few Dems are serious about making any cuts. Between both parties we are going nowhere.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Much of our extra spending is due to the fact we have so many people out of work. Get them back to work and two things happen, the tax base increases but also spending on things like unemployment, Medicaid, and many social programs will drop as those same people go back to work. Even with that there will not be enough revenue at current rates. Taxes will have to increase a little. After that, we have to do something about Medicare, and to a lesser degree SS. Nobody wants to discuss it in earnest and that is a problem, because any solution is going to take both parties agreeing to any real solution. I imagine what I want to see happen will eventually as no other solution will come about and there will be no other option than to raise the retirement age for both programs.

The problem is: government is more than willing to increase taxes but reluctant (at best) to decrease spending. There has to be a WORKABLE balance.

I agree completely, but we have Republicans insisting that taxes will not be raised on anyone, and then Democrats insisting that there be some tax increases to go along with spending cuts. The problem on the Dem side is that very few Dems are serious about making any cuts. Between both parties we are going nowhere.

No argument here. BOTH parties need to give and take. There is no perfect solution, but there has to be some middle ground.

 

[del]

It just ain't worth it, you're not going to get enough revenue from the tax hike to make a difference in the debt/deficits. It's like concentrating on less than ten cents out of every dollar instead of the other 90. What we have is a spending problem, if the president is really interested in cutting the deficts, that's where he's gotta go first.

This so-called president could give a flying fuck in a monkey's ass about spending, as long as he can punish the prosperous.

don't forget to hold your breath and kick your feet

 

[gallantwarrior]

It just ain't worth it, you're not going to get enough revenue from the tax hike to make a difference in the debt/deficits. It's like concentrating on less than ten cents out of every dollar instead of the other 90. What we have is a spending problem, if the president is really interested in cutting the deficts, that's where he's gotta go first.

This so-called president could give a flying fuck in a monkey's ass about spending, as long as he can punish the prosperous.

don't forget to hold your breath and kick your feet

Don't forget to pucker up and plant a juicy one on someone's ass...

 

[del]

This so-called president could give a flying fuck in a monkey's ass about spending, as long as he can punish the prosperous.

don't forget to hold your breath and kick your feet

Don't forget to pucker up and plant a juicy one on someone's ass...

who did you have in mind?

would you like some cheese?

 

[gallantwarrior]

don't forget to hold your breath and kick your feet

Don't forget to pucker up and plant a juicy one on someone's ass...

who did you have in mind?

would you like some cheese?

Make my own, thanks...

 

[asterism]

take a look at growth rates in the 50's, 60's and 70's, then look at the tax rates.

then tell e&y to blow it out their collective asses.

Can we get all the tax shelters from the 50s and 60s too?

I'd love to take the losses from one business and use them as a write off for profits from another business. I'd love to operate a foreign subsidiary that buys and sells products to a domestic supplier that I also own. Oh, and I'd be elated to have a charitable foundation that can employ people that work in my office, owns my building, and pays to maintain the boats I own.


Oh and there was no Alternative Minimum Tax, no Social Security Tax and not Medicare Tax in the 50s. Can we go back to that?

 

[Darkwind]

Business groups: Ernst & Young study shows tax hikes would hurt economy - The Business Journals


A new study by Ernst & Young concludes that increasing taxes on higher-income Americans will hurt economic growth and lead to 710,000 fewer jobs being created.

The study was commissioned by four business groups that are opposed to this tax increase, which will go into effect Jan. 1 under current law. Those groups include the National Federation of Independent Business, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, Independent Community Bankers of America and the S Corporation Association.

The Solution seems simple to me. Change the rules for S class, and LLC and the like to protect small business from tax hikes. Raise rates on the rest of the rich.

However to not dilute yourself into thinking it will stop there. The Rate increases Obama is asking for on the Top % will bring in a tiny sum of money compared to our over all deficit. Unless meaningful cuts to the Budget, and reforms to entitlements are made we will have no choice at all but to raise rates on the Middle and even lower Income rates.

it's simple, sure the rich have a lot of money, but there are far more poor and middle class and the only way to raise the sums of money we are spending would be to tax them. You could take all the Riches income every year and not dent the problem.

So if the Republicans cave to tax hikes, and do not get meaningful spending cuts the problem will only get worse.

Rinse and Repeat just like that last 25 years.

How many times have we heard, "We need to raise taxes to solve this, or solve that. Taxes go up.....the problem exists 10 years later.

For anyone who has their eyes open, they cannot fail to see that the people asking for money to solve these problems cannot be trusted to any degree whatsoever.

 

[Charles_Main]

I love how conservatives hate workers having power to bring things crashing down if they get mistreated, but they love rich people and business owners firing thousands of people in spite.

I actually only have a problem with workers bringing things crashing down, when you are talking about Public sector unions who are paid by Tax payers, and negotiate their contracts with said government with corrupted bought off Negotiators that give them what ever they want.

In the Private sector the Companies have a profit motive which means they do not simply give in to the demands of labor, and pass the bill down the road till after they are no longer in office.

Even FDR warned of the Dangerous of Public sector Unions while champion unions in the Private sector. I thought you guys worshiped FDR? His wisdom on this issue not fit into your narrative?

Nobody fucking worships any president. Don't be a fucking retard.

Oh shut up. FDR is held up, and canonized by the left as a Hero. They gloss over any bad, and focus on the good. They point to him as the birth of Progressiveness, but tell us to shut up when we point out he was opposed to Public Sector Unions. Just like they ignore that the racist asshole interned A couple hundred thousand Americans in blatant disregard for the Constitution and their rights under it, simply because they were Japanese Americans.

FDR is most certainly worshiped like a idol by progressives.

But feel free to demonstrate your superior intellect, and Amazing Debate skills by calling me a moron again.

 

[Rozman]

If raising the taxes on the so called rich doesn't do much of anything to make a dent in the debt or
deficit what's the point....

Oh yeah...to satisfy the demand of those in the Democrat party to stick it to the rich man.
Because they don't have enough stuff and that means it's someone else's fault.

 

[Wiseacre]

Check this out, from a poll conducted last month by The Tarrance Group of over 1000 registered voters. And yet Obama won the elction anyway. Go figure.

snippet:

If a tax increase were to go into effect, a majority of men (61%), women (53%), and Independents (60%) say President Obama would use the additional money raised from the tax increase to increase spending on government programs. Democrats (58%) are the only partisan group to believe President Obama would use additional revenue to help pay down the debt and deficit.

Nearly three quarters (73%) of men and two thirds (67%) of women say less spending would do the most to grow the economy over the next four years. Nine in ten (91%) Republicans, three quarters (75%) of Independents, and a plurality (48%) of Democrats also say less government spending would be most helpful to the economy.

Other key groups believing less spending would be most helpful to the economy: union households (66%), married women (74%), self-identified low income voters (67%), middle class families (76%), and Hispanics (64%).

http://thepublicnotice.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Public-Notice.-10.8-BG-memo.pdf

 

[Claudette]

Much of our extra spending is due to the fact we have so many people out of work. Get them back to work and two things happen, the tax base increases but also spending on things like unemployment, Medicaid, and many social programs will drop as those same people go back to work. Even with that there will not be enough revenue at current rates. Taxes will have to increase a little. After that, we have to do something about Medicare, and to a lesser degree SS. Nobody wants to discuss it in earnest and that is a problem, because any solution is going to take both parties agreeing to any real solution. I imagine what I want to see happen will eventually as no other solution will come about and there will be no other option than to raise the retirement age for both programs.

The problem is: government is more than willing to increase taxes but reluctant (at best) to decrease spending. There has to be a WORKABLE balance.

I agree completely, but we have Republicans insisting that taxes will not be raised on anyone, and then Democrats insisting that there be some tax increases to go along with spending cuts. The problem on the Dem side is that very few Dems are serious about making any cuts. Between both parties we are going nowhere.

Yup. The Dems made deals in the past. Grant us this and we'll do spending cuts. Well they got their way and the spending cuts never came.

This country is in big trouble and most Americans haven't got a fucking clue.

 

[Claudette]

Check this out, from a poll conducted last month by The Tarrance Group of over 1000 registered voters. And yet Obama won the elction anyway. Go figure.

snippet:

If a tax increase were to go into effect, a majority of men (61%), women (53%), and Independents (60%) say President Obama would use the additional money raised from the tax increase to increase spending on government programs. Democrats (58%) are the only partisan group to believe President Obama would use additional revenue to help pay down the debt and deficit.

Nearly three quarters (73%) of men and two thirds (67%) of women say less spending would do the most to grow the economy over the next four years. Nine in ten (91%) Republicans, three quarters (75%) of Independents, and a plurality (48%) of Democrats also say less government spending would be most helpful to the economy.

Other key groups believing less spending would be most helpful to the economy: union households (66%), married women (74%), self-identified low income voters (67%), middle class families (76%), and Hispanics (64%).

http://thepublicnotice.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Public-Notice.-10.8-BG-memo.pdf

Well he won because we have loads of clueless voters in this country.

This country is in serious trouble and most Americans don't have a clue.