Racist?

I can't see how it's "well known" that Jews in Israel practice discrimination against Ethiopians. I'm pretty sure it's not perfect, but it's not perfect here for blacks, is it? Or should Israel be perfect where no one else is?

No one is claiming and asking for perfection, but some Jews need to acknowledge racism amongst other Jews, especially when alot, but not all Jews shout "anti-Semite" at even the slightest bit of criticism. Its not perfect in America for blacks, but at least its acknowledged here that a race problem does exist, neocon blacks may deny it, but its obvious.



As for the Golan Heights. I think you already know that Israel has been very active in closing down settlements. But the Golan can't ever go back to Syria in any event. Israel has also been very quick to give back land when a true peace agreement is reached as they did with Egypt.... if, of course, they have a true partner with whom to negotiate peace.

It always amuses me that when Israel wins land after being attacked, it's always "disputed"... according to the rest of the world. Perhaps if people didn't attack Israel, they wouldn't lose land?


Conversely, if another country attacked Israel and seized territory by your logic it shouldn't go back, right?
 
No one is claiming and asking for perfection, but some Jews need to acknowledge racism amongst other Jews, especially when alot, but not all Jews shout "anti-Semite" at even the slightest bit of criticism. Its not perfect in America for blacks, but at least its acknowledged here that a race problem does exist, neocon blacks may deny it, but its obvious.

I'm not sure about the truth or accuracy of your essential premise. I'm also not sure that IF there's a problem that it's "denied".

Conversely, if another country attacked Israel and seized territory by your logic it shouldn't go back, right?

No. There's a difference between defensive and offensive battle, no?

See, here's the problem as I see it. I have no problem discussing things Israel may do wrong IF (and it's a pretty BIG IF) one is being equally critical of Israel's enemies which, I think we can all agree, have far greater racism issues and far more violence issues than Israel does.

So, I have no issue with fairness... I really find the persistent Israel bashing pretty pathetic. (not you, bashing in general... I don't know your posts well enough yet to know if imbalance is a persistent problem),
 
What about him? We don't have our wingnuts here? Do you attribute Dick Cheney's wacko views to "Americans" or do you attribute them to Dick Cheney and his wingnuts?

No, but wingnuts have a considerable influence on people. Are you saying the wingnuts over in Israel have nil influence?

I don't know anything about money from Ethiopian Jews being thrown out by the ADL. I googled that and found nothing. If you had a link, I'd be interested.

It was blood of Ethiopian Jews that was thrown out by Israeli officials for fear of AIDS because of racism and the ADL tried to say it had nothing to do with racism when it was criticized in the United States. If that wasn't racism then what was it?
 
No, but wingnuts have a considerable influence on people. Are you saying the wingnuts over in Israel have nil influence?



It was blood of Ethiopian Jews that was thrown out by Israeli officials for fear of AIDS because of racism and the ADL tried to say it had nothing to do with racism when it was criticized in the United States. If that wasn't racism then what was it?

Link please. As I said, I googled that and found nothing. And it sounds really questionable.

Do you not have a problem with Hamas members saying Israel should be destroyed? You know...fairness/wingnuts/influence...all that kind of stuff...

and given that I'm not allowed in Muslim countries, I'd think your outrage at that would be far greater than a possible, though unsubstantiated, imbalance in Israel.
 
I'm not sure about the truth or accuracy of your essential premise. I'm also not sure that IF there's a problem that it's "denied".

Well the ADL denied racism played a role in the dumping out of blood donated by Ethiopian Jews. Again, no society is without racism and prejudice, but getting the entire population to recognize that it exists is another thing.



No. There's a difference between defensive and offensive battle, no?

If Israel to took Golan Heights for defensive purposes why are they and have been building settlements on it?

See, here's the problem as I see it. I have no problem discussing things Israel may do wrong IF (and it's a pretty BIG IF) one is being equally critical of Israel's enemies which, I think we can all agree, have far greater racism issues and far more violence issues than Israel does.

Whether Israel's enemies are racist or not has nothing to do with Israel having racism itself. You can't make an argument for Israel by saying the Arabs and Palestinians are racist. Its not who has greater racism issues its a matter of whether they exist and how are they being addressed.

So, I have no issue with fairness... I really find the persistent Israel bashing pretty pathetic. (not you, bashing in general... I don't know your posts well enough yet to know if imbalance is a persistent problem),

Well from this side, Israeli basing isn't a big thing, but it neds to be made clear that criticism against Israel is *NOT* anti-Semitism. This side really detests that label. But fair is fair so they real issues that are something worth addressing needs attention.
 
Link please. As I said, I googled that and found nothing. And it sounds really questionable.

Do you not have a problem with Hamas members saying Israel should be destroyed? You know...fairness/wingnuts/influence...all that kind of stuff...

and given that I'm not allowed in Muslim countries, I'd think your outrage at that would be far greater than a possible, though unsubstantiated, imbalance in Israel.

Hamas has committed atrocities but again, are you going to deny that some Israeli soldiers have committed atrocities against innocent people who aren't terrorists? Thats whee the real balance needs to come in. Why aren't you allowed in Muslim countries, because you're Jewish`? And it is true, the blood of Ethiopian donors was thrown out for fear of AIDS.
 
Well the ADL denied racism played a role in the dumping out of blood donated by Ethiopian Jews. Again, no society is without racism and prejudice, but getting the entire population to recognize that it exists is another thing.

Ah... ok... fair enough. Perhaps I misread. But I'm wondering why you're discussing something so very ancient that clearly had nothing to do with racism. When I see that, I'm afraid I DO question the motivation of the poster.

Whatever Israel's mistakes towards its Ethiopian Jewish community, the cause is not racism. Support for the African immigrants, as measured by public opinion and government investment, is strong. Government assistance is much greater than for other immigrant groups. And reports of social discrimination are rare in a country with little experience in black-white relations.

What causes the distress is bureaucratic ineptitude and a cultural gap between a traditional community and a modern, technologically-advanced, highly-competitive nation.

Much of Israel's Ethiopian population, about 50,000 today, was brought to the country in two dramatic airlifts. The first was in 1984, when thousands were secretly flown from refugee camps on the Sudanese border, literally plucked from a fate of starvation and disease. The second operation, in 1991, was from Addis Abba, as rebel troops were closing in on the Ethiopian capital during its civil war. When the immigrants arrived in Israel, it was a moment of jubilation for Israelis, who showered the newcomers with voluntary support.

Ethiopian Controversy In Israel: It's Not Racism

Wouldn't it have been wonderful if Jordan took in the palestinian refugees the way Israel took in the Ethiopians? And why aren't you writing about that? This is what I mean about motivations.

If Israel to took Golan Heights for defensive purposes why are they and have been building settlements on it?

Again, you keep commenting without posting links. I don't believe Israel is currently building any settlements in the Golan Heights and has, in fact, disbanded many settlements. I'm wondering, once again, why this would be a focus of yours.

Whether Israel's enemies are racist or not has nothing to do with Israel having racism itself. You can't make an argument for Israel by saying the Arabs and Palestinians are racist. Its not who has greater racism issues its a matter of whether they exist and how are they being addressed.

But before you bash Israel for seemingly petty things, perhaps you should focus your scrutiny on Israel's enemies. That is what I mean by wondering about motivations. It is also why such one-sidedness might appear as bashing even if it isn't intended to be.

Well from this side, Israeli basing isn't a big thing, but it neds to be made clear that criticism against Israel is *NOT* anti-Semitism. This side really detests that label. But fair is fair so they real issues that are something worth addressing needs attention.

I have found, usually without exception, that people who "criticize" only Israel, while not commenting on the world around it, generally are not doing so because they are good friends to Israel. I have found that it's generally an effort to destroy Israel's legitimacy and is for negative purposes.

I think there are far greater issues that need "attention"..... like the way women are treated in the Arab world and missles being fired at Israeli civilians from Lebanon and Gaza. If I see your concern for those issues, then I'm sure I'll have no problem not feeling you're exhibiting an anti-Israel bias. Of course, if one's focus is ONLY negativity in regard to Israel, well, I tend to think that speaks for itself.
 
Hamas has committed atrocities but again, are you going to deny that some Israeli soldiers have committed atrocities against innocent people who aren't terrorists? Thats whee the real balance needs to come in. Why aren't you allowed in Muslim countries, because you're Jewish`? And it is true, the blood of Ethiopian donors was thrown out for fear of AIDS.

What are some? Like the US there are bad guys. What percentage and do you use those very few to equate with Hamas or insurgency? I guess one does if in favor of Hamas and the insurgency.
 
What are some? Like the US there are bad guys. What percentage and do you use those very few to equate with Hamas or insurgency? I guess one does if in favor of Hamas and the insurgency.


What kind of fallacious argument is this? This side doesn't support Hamas and or any type of insurgency, but there are people who have reported atrocities by the IDL. Of course these bas guys don't define the entire IDL and Israeli people as whole but neither do the terrorists who commit acts against Iraelis define all Arabs and or Palestinians. Is that fair enough?
 
What kind of fallacious argument is this? This side doesn't support Hamas and or any type of insurgency, but there are people who have reported atrocities by the IDL. Of course these bas guys don't define the entire IDL and Israeli people as whole but neither do the terrorists who commit acts against Iraelis define all Arabs and or Palestinians. Is that fair enough?

Who is "this side"? Just curious, because perhaps I'm not following.

I agree about "all Israeli's" and "all Arabs and or Palestinians".

So 1) why are we only talking about Israelis? And 2) terrorism is the policy of the official government of the palestinian people... you know, our friends at Hamas. So why are we talking about a right wing jew. I mean, there's no question they exist.
 
Ah... ok... fair enough. Perhaps I misread. But I'm wondering why you're discussing something so very ancient that clearly had nothing to do with racism. When I see that, I'm afraid I DO question the motivation of the poster.

This side isn't discussing something thats so ancient, it goes on now as this message is being typed.


Ethiopian Controversy In Israel: It's Not Racism

In that same link the ADL denies its was racism that played a part in that donated blood getting dumped, but provided no non-racist explanation for why is was dumped, typical antics of ADL to deny Jewish racism.

Wouldn't it have been wonderful if Jordan took in the palestinian refugees the way Israel took in the Ethiopians? And why aren't you writing about that? This is what I mean about motivations.

This side isn't following you here, why are you creating the idea that this is a one sided attack on Jews? It isn't , but in your example what does one have to do with the other?



Again, you keep commenting without posting links. I don't believe Israel is currently building any settlements in the Golan Heights and has, in fact, disbanded many settlements. I'm wondering, once again, why this would be a focus of yours.

Maybe they have decreased and halted settlements in Golan Heights, fair enough, but the fact that their were settlements there indicates that the seizing of Golan Heights had nothing to do with defense. The radical Zionists saw that land as an entitlement.



But before you bash Israel for seemingly petty things, perhaps you should focus your scrutiny on Israel's enemies. That is what I mean by wondering about motivations. It is also why such one-sidedness might appear as bashing even if it isn't intended to be.

Oh this side has a much criticism for Israeli enemies as it has for things that Israel does wrong but for different reasons, namely hypocrisy by the US government for profit. This thread was about possible racism in Israel so it was kept in that context.



I have found, usually without exception, that people who "criticize" only Israel, while not commenting on the world around it, generally are not doing so because they are good friends to Israel. I have found that it's generally an effort to destroy Israel's legitimacy and is for negative purposes.[7quote]

If one wants to criticize Israel for racism it does not entail having to automatically criticize Israel's neighbors first, one doesn't have anything to do with the other.

I think there are far greater issues that need "attention"..... like the way women are treated in the Arab world and missles being fired at Israeli civilians from Lebanon and Gaza. If I see your concern for those issues, then I'm sure I'll have no problem not feeling you're exhibiting an anti-Israel bias. Of course, if one's focus is ONLY negativity in regard to Israel, well, I tend to think that speaks for itself.

The Arab world does have its issues, without a doubt but they have nothing to do with racism in Israel as discussed within the context of this thread.
 
Who is "this side"? Just curious, because perhaps I'm not following.

This side is Mr Charlie bass, from Vicksburg, Mississippi, :)

I agree about "all Israeli's" and "all Arabs and or Palestinians".

So 1) why are we only talking about Israelis? And 2) terrorism is the policy of the official government of the palestinian people... you know, our friends at Hamas. So why are we talking about a right wing jew. I mean, there's no question they exist.

Israelis are being discussed only within the context of this thread only. What proof do you have that terrorism is the official policy of Palestinian people? Thats a very big charge.
 
This side is Mr Charlie bass, from Vicksburg, Mississippi, :)



Israelis are being discussed only within the context of this thread only. What proof do you have that terrorism is the official policy of Palestinian people? Thats a very big charge.

Well, howdy Mr. Charlie Bass from Vicksburg, Mississippi. ;)

Israel is only EVER discussed in these threads. It seems that, for the most part, it's only the rabid anti-Israel folk who feel the need to post thread after thread criticizing Israel. I've never had the need to bash palestininans day after day. I think there have been things done wrong on both sides, but one can't isolate them without talking about both sides. And that's just my opinion, of course.

The proof I have that terrorism if the official policy of the palestinian government is that the government is Hamas.
 
Well, howdy Mr. Charlie Bass from Vicksburg, Mississippi. ;)

Israel is only EVER discussed in these threads. It seems that, for the most part, it's only the rabid anti-Israel folk who feel the need to post thread after thread criticizing Israel. I've never had the need to bash palestininans day after day. I think there have been things done wrong on both sides, but one can't isolate them without talking about both sides. And that's just my opinion, of course.

The proof I have that terrorism if the official policy of the palestinian government is that the government is Hamas.

Rest assured that Mr Charlie Bass doesn't think much bad about Israel, homosexuals are much more of a threat to Mr Bass than rightwing Jews in Israel.

Yes, there is often alot of onesided bashing of Israelis by some obviously biased people but Mr Bass isn't one of them.
 
but the fact remains Palestine was a British mandate as a result of the Ottoman Empire's loss in WWI and it was Britain's to give or not as it chose.

Nope. The mandate most assuredly did not give Britian that right.

The League of Nations didn't grant Britian that authority, either.

Britian did what it typical does..it pitted people against one another by lies and promises it knew it wouldn't keep.

That was the expedient thing to do.

Britian needed financial help from Rothchild, so Balfour gave the Zionist's what they wanted.

Britian needed the help of the Arabs to defeat the Turks, so they promised the Arabs that, despite the Balfour agreement, Palestine wouldn't become a dumping ground for European Jews.

Druing the mandate (roguhly 1918-1848) Britian fibrilated between allowing Jews into Palestine, and NOT allowing Jews into Palestine.

When they let them in, Arabs rioted.

When they didn't let them, Jews rioted

By 1948, Britian was sick of the whole mess.

They bailed and left the Jews and Arabs to work it out themselves.

If anyone should pay reparations, it's Britian, folks.

It's their mess, after all.
 
Bah. I blame this on Crusader infighting. The Levant could be OURS. RIGHT NOW.

Or in a couple of decades after the green glow dims.
 

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