Race Poverty, where are we now

midcan5

liberal / progressive
Jun 4, 2007
12,740
3,513
260
America
Life exists in many bubbles, and while bubbles are limited, they make for a wonderful simplicity. Reality is out there and out there is just out there. A bubble provides reality. Galbraith, as quoted by Peter Watson in 'The Modern Mind,' sums up a change that my generation witnessed. It is a change from cooperation and the golden rule to corporation and the rule of money. Interesting piece on Race and money below, a bit of reality outside the bubble. And since the economy sank under George W. Bush this cannot have improved.


"[Andrew Hacker] has been analyzing America's social and racial statistics for a number of years, and is no firebrand but a reserved, even a stringent academic, not given to hyperbole or rhetorical flourishes.... But 'Two Nations' was more chilling than anything in the 'Review' [prior writings]. His argument was so shocking that Hacker and his editors apparently felt the need to wrap his central chapters behind several 'softer' introductory chapters that put his figures into context, exploring and seeking to explain racism and the fact of being black in an anecdotal way, to prepare the reader for what was to come. The argument was in two parts. The figures shown not only that America was still deeply divided after decades - a century - of effort, but that in many ways the situation had deteriorated since Myrdal's day, and despite what had been achieved by the civil rights movement.

'The real problem in our time,' wrote Hacker, 'is that more and more back infants are being born to mothers who are immature and poor. Compared with white women - most of whom are older and more comfortably off - black women are twice as likely to have anemic conditions during pregnancy, twice as likely to have no prenatal care, and twice as likely to give birth to low weight babies. Twice as many of their children develop serious health problems, including asthma, deafness, retardation, and learning disabilities, as well as conditions stemming from their own use of drugs and alcohol during pregnancy. Measured in economic terms, the last two decades have not been auspicious ones for Americans of any race. Between 1970 and 1992 the median income for white families, compared in constant dollars rose from $34,773 to 38,909, an increase of 11.9 percent. During this time black family income in fact went down a few dollars from $21,330 to 21,161. In relative terms, black incomes fell from $613 to 544 for each $1,000 received by whites.

Despite a large chapter on crime, Hackers figure's on school desegregation were more startling. In the early 1990s, 63.2 percent of all black children, nearly two out of three, were still in segregated schools. In some states the percentage of blacks in segregated schools was as high as 84%. Hackers conclusion was sober: 'In allocating responsibility, the response should be clear. It is white America that has made being black so disconsolate an estate. Legal slavery may be in the past, but segregation and subordination have been allowed to persist. Even today, America imposes a stigma on every black child at birth...A huge racial chasm remains, and there are few signs that the coming century will see it closed. A century and quarter, after slavery, white America continues to ask of its black citizens an extra patience and perseverance that whites have never required of themselves. So the question for white Americans is essentially moral: is it right to impose on members of an entire race a lesser start in life and then to expect from them a degree of resolution that has never been demanded from your own race?"


Check this out after reading below quote. Jared Diamond on why societies collapse | Video on TED.com

"'The Culture of Contentment' is a deliberate misnomer. Galbraith is using irony here, irony little short of sarcasm. What he really means is the culture of smugness. His argument is that until the mid 1970s round about the oil crisis the western democracies accepted the idea of a mixed economy and with that went economic social progress. Since then, however, a prominent class has emerged, materially constable and even very rich, which, far from trying to help the less fortunate, has developed a whole infrastructure - politically and intellectually - to marginalize and even demonize them. Aspects of this include tax reductions to the better off and welfare cuts to the worst off, small 'manageable wars' to maintain the unifying force of a common enemy, the idea of 'unmitigated laissez-faire as embodiment of freedom,' and a desire for cutback in government. The most important collective end result of all this, Galbraith says, is a blindness and a deafness among the 'contented' to the growing problems of society. While they are content to spend, or have spent in their name, trillions of dollars to defeat relatively minor enemy figures... they are extremely unwilling to spend money on the underclass nearer home. In a startling paragraph he quotes figures to show that 'the number of Americans living below the poverty line increased by 28% in just 10 years from 24.5 million in 1978 to 32 million in 1988 by then nearly one in five children was born in poverty in the United States more than twice as high a proportion as in Canada or Germany" Peter Watson

Above quotations from Chap 36, 'Doing Well, Doing Good,' in [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Mind-Intellectual-History-Century/dp/0060084383/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8]Amazon.com: The Modern Mind: An Intellectual History of the 20th…[/ame]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Culture-Contentment-Penguin-economics-Galbraith/dp/0140173668/ref=sr_1_17?s=books&ie=UTF8]Amazon.com: Culture of Contentment, the (Penguin economics) (9780140173666): John Kenneth Galbraith: Books[/ame]


Want to Be Poor? Work One of These 8 Jobs | Poverty in America | Change.org

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/17/magazine/17charity.t.html?em

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Good-Society-Humane-Agenda/dp/0395859980/ref=sr_1_10?s=books&ie=UTF8]Amazon.com: The Good Society: The Humane Agenda (0046442859981):…[/ame]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/economy/126288-rich-and-poor-jobs-and-wages.html



"If a man shuts his ears to the cry of the poor, he too will cry out and not be answered." Proverbs 21:13
 
Last edited:
The problem isn't simply black and white but shades of brown and green.

Stupidity, genius and good or bad luck do NOT respect racial lines. Nor do they respect religious lines - if God is, He doesn't seem to care enough to pass out luck based on race, worship or works.

Prediction of an average Joe's contribution or cost to society from birth are much more easily done along economic lines. It's not a coincidence that economic lines can be roughed in along racial lines, given our history and our relative youth as a mobile and technological species, but race alone is no predictor of achievement or even self-support.
 
Last edited:
The problem isn't simply black and white but shades of brown and green.

Stupidity, genius and good or bad luck do NOT respect racial lines. Nor do they respect religious lines - if God is, He doesn't seem to care enough to pass out luck based on race, worship or works.

Prediction of an average Joe's contribution or cost to society from birth are much more easily done along economic lines. It's not a coincidence that economic lines can be roughed in along racial lines, given our history and our relative youth as a mobile and technological species, but race alone is no predictor of achievement or even self-support.



Actually race is a good predictor for achievement and self support. What ever made you think it wasn't? Is there any reasonably large data set anywhere, for anything besides sports and entertainment, that doesn't show blacks perform worse on average?
 
...'The real problem in our time,' wrote Hacker, 'is that more and more back infants are being born to mothers who are immature and poor...

Gee, Hackerboy, did you ever happen to notice something else about those immature and poor mothers, the fact that they aren't married to the jerks donating the sperm that gets them pregnant? A bastard birth rate that has grown from twenty-something percent in the 60's to 70% today is responsible for most of the problems facing the vast majority of blacks these days.

Until within the black community the gospel of keeping knees together and zippers up is preached far and wide among singles, they are a doomed subculture.
 
...'The real problem in our time,' wrote Hacker, 'is that more and more back infants are being born to mothers who are immature and poor...

Gee, Hackerboy, did you ever happen to notice something else about those immature and poor mothers, the fact that they aren't married to the jerks donating the sperm that gets them pregnant? A bastard birth rate that has grown from twenty-something percent in the 60's to 70% today is responsible for most of the problems facing the vast majority of blacks these days.

Until within the black community the gospel of keeping knees together and zippers up is preached far and wide among singles, they are a doomed subculture.

Yes, though blacks behave sexually like this for a reason that isn't totally explained by their moral failure. Blacks have a survival strategy that calls for high levels of reproduction and low levels of parental investment -- a survival strategy that worked well in their continent of origin, Africa. Lots of little ones born, many die, and a few make it to adulthood. Contrast this with the low birth level and high parental investment of whites, a strategy born in the colder north.

The Reproductive Survival Strategy of Blacks Nationalist Coalition Blog
 
Wow doesn't take much to get a Klan fest going.
Glaziers move faster than whites fixing rampant racism.
 
The problem isn't simply black and white but shades of brown and green.

Stupidity, genius and good or bad luck do NOT respect racial lines. Nor do they respect religious lines - if God is, He doesn't seem to care enough to pass out luck based on race, worship or works.

Prediction of an average Joe's contribution or cost to society from birth are much more easily done along economic lines. It's not a coincidence that economic lines can be roughed in along racial lines, given our history and our relative youth as a mobile and technological species, but race alone is no predictor of achievement or even self-support.

Since 70% of all children born into black families are born out of wedlock with only a single bread-earner it's highly likely that a black child will have two strikes against him from the moment he or she is born. Welfare used to encourage single parenthood because in order to qualify a mother couldn't have any source of income.....working Dads had to leave the home.
 
Last edited:
'The real problem in our time,' wrote Hacker, 'is that more and more back infants are being born to mothers who are immature and poor. Compared with white women - most of whom are older and more comfortably off - .

Make no mistake, there are plenty of young white immature women having babies, and we are paying for them as well. In several respects we have become a welfare culture to the point that teenage girls actually plan how many babies to have based in how much per month they can get per child. I've seen it with my own eyes and heard it with my own ears. It's not a black problem, it's a culture problem in our society.

Despite a large chapter on crime, Hackers figure's on school desegregation were more startling. In the early 1990s, 63.2 percent of all black children, nearly two out of three, were still in segregated schools. In some states the percentage of blacks in segregated schools was as high as 84%.

I suspect this is due to racial demographics in these areas, and has nothing whatsoever to do with segregation. A few weeks ago, I heard on a local radio news broadcast that the Dallas ISD has a very disproportionate number of black and hispanic students. It's not because of segregation, it's because of the makeup of the population of the city of Dallas.

So the question for white Americans is essentially moral: is it right to impose on members of an entire race a lesser start in life and then to expect from them a degree of resolution that has never been demanded from your own race?"

The only thing that white America has imposed on blacks is that we have in effect kept them on a government plantation by creating social welfare programs that have ruined their culture by keeping them dependent, and in effect, saying that they can't make it on their own. We have also done this in a large portion of the white population. The solution is not to keep pouring money into programs that keep them dependent. Whatever you pay for, you get more of.
 
Good post about one of the causes Mudwhistle. What interests me more is why children from middle class upbringing are much more likely to slip down from the middle class lifestyle. After all, Affirmative Action was put into place for that reason. Elevate blacks to middle class and their children will carry the tradition and everyone including society will benefit. But it is not happening to the extent we had hoped. Pity
 
Good post about one of the causes Mudwhistle. What interests me more is why children from middle class upbringing are much more likely to slip down from the middle class lifestyle.

Because it's the easy way out of having to stand on your own two feet. People have figured out that if you act pitiful enough, it pays. I hate to say it, but it's white trash behavior, and it's rampant these days. Many kids are being raised in trashy environments, and they have low expectations for themselves.
 
The only thing that white America has imposed on blacks is that we have in effect kept them on a government plantation by creating social welfare programs that have ruined their culture by keeping them dependent, and in effect, saying that they can't make it on their own. We have also done this in a large portion of the white population. The solution is not to keep pouring money into programs that keep them dependent. Whatever you pay for, you get more of.[/QUOTE]

I could not agree with you more. And what an excellent way of stating it. :clap2: Welfare and other entitlement programs destroy initiative. What starts out as a well intended helping hand develops into a way of life. It's like putting the Indian on a Reservation. You took a proud, productive, self sustaining culture and turned them into a race of dependent individuals with substance abuse problems.
 
It's like putting the Indian on a Reservation. You took a proud, productive, self sustaining culture and turned them into a race of dependent individuals with substance abuse problems.

Yes, and the saddest part of all is that the reason they have a high rate of substance abuse is because they no longer feel like productive members of society. I believe there is a human need to feel productive and creative, and when that productivity is taken away or otherwise diminished, the human spirit suffers tremendously.
 
It's like putting the Indian on a Reservation. You took a proud, productive, self sustaining culture and turned them into a race of dependent individuals with substance abuse problems.

Yes, and the saddest part of all is that the reason they have a high rate of substance abuse is because they no longer feel like productive members of society. I believe there is a human need to feel productive and creative, and when that productivity is taken away or otherwise diminished, the human spirit suffers tremendously.

Self worth is destroyed and within one generation dramatic changes start to take place. Plantations as you called them, is an excellent description. They become isolated in a world where they serve no useful purpose. They become segregated from mainstream society and it becomes harder and harder to get back on the track. Boredom, frustration, anger, and a sense of futility all lead to a sense of becoming a social outcast.
 
The problem isn't simply black and white but shades of brown and green.

Stupidity, genius and good or bad luck do NOT respect racial lines. Nor do they respect religious lines - if God is, He doesn't seem to care enough to pass out luck based on race, worship or works.

Prediction of an average Joe's contribution or cost to society from birth are much more easily done along economic lines. It's not a coincidence that economic lines can be roughed in along racial lines, given our history and our relative youth as a mobile and technological species, but race alone is no predictor of achievement or even self-support.



Actually race is a good predictor for achievement and self support. What ever made you think it wasn't? Is there any reasonably large data set anywhere, for anything besides sports and entertainment, that doesn't show blacks perform worse on average?

Race is an EXCELLENT predictor of opportunity and achievement but only because graphing it along with a racial profile of economic power owned by the average Joe is a mirror image.

Economic Power is the deciding factor, with education being its leverage, in predicting opportunity and achievement - the matching race graph is merely a coincidence, given our history.
 
The problem isn't simply black and white but shades of brown and green.

Stupidity, genius and good or bad luck do NOT respect racial lines. Nor do they respect religious lines - if God is, He doesn't seem to care enough to pass out luck based on race, worship or works.

Prediction of an average Joe's contribution or cost to society from birth are much more easily done along economic lines. It's not a coincidence that economic lines can be roughed in along racial lines, given our history and our relative youth as a mobile and technological species, but race alone is no predictor of achievement or even self-support.



Actually race is a good predictor for achievement and self support. What ever made you think it wasn't? Is there any reasonably large data set anywhere, for anything besides sports and entertainment, that doesn't show blacks perform worse on average?

Race is an EXCELLENT predictor of opportunity and achievement but only because graphing it along with a racial profile of economic power owned by the average Joe is a mirror image.

Economic Power is the deciding factor, with education being its leverage, in predicting opportunity and achievement - the matching race graph is merely a coincidence, given our history.

No, other way around.

The No. 1 predictor of someone's wealth is intelligence. Race and intelligence are tightly correlated.

Consider this: IQ predicts for wealth, regardless of race. Thus, smart blacks are richer than dumber whites.

Smart whites are richer than dumb blacks.

And in general, because whites are smarter than blacks, they're also generally richer.
 
i believe martin luther king jr said it best:

I see no changes, all I see is racist faces
Misplaced hate makes disgrace to races
We under, I wonder what it takes to make this
One better place, let's erase the wasted
Take the evil out the people they'll be actin right
'Cuz both black and white is smokin' crack tonight
And the only time we chill is when we kill each otha
It takes skill to be real time to heal each other
And I know it seems heaven sent
We aint ready to see a black presidant, unh
it aint a secret don't conceal the facts, the penitentiaries packed
And it's filled with blacks
But some things will never change
Ya try to show anotha way but ya stayin in the dope game
Now tell me what's a motha to do
Bein' real don't appeal to the brotha in you
You gotta operate the easy way
"I made a G today," , but you made it in a sleezy way
Sellin crack to the kids, "I gotta get paid"
Well hey, well thats the way it is
 

Forum List

Back
Top