Quinnipiac Poll May 1st, 2007

[CSM]

and whether or not the average american citizen may or may not have more insight into how our military should be used than the members of the military is totally irelevant. Our country's military has ALWAYS been under the complete and total control of the civilians in goverment - that is why we have never had an military coups in all our years - and the civilians in goverment answer to ALL the american people, not just those in uniform. Don't LIKE living in a country like that? move to fucking Paraguay and don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way south.

Ya know, you are awful touchy....

 

[red states rule]

Ya know, you are awful touchy....

You caught MM on a good day, usually he is not that nice

 

[maineman]

Ya know, you are awful touchy....

if you denigrate a nationally recognized poll, demonstrate you have no idea of where it is taken and its national scope, and then compare it in validity and importance to a poll of military personnel alone, you should be prepared to have someone toss the bullshit flag. I did. If I did so with "unnecessary roughness", I apologize.

 

[CSM]

if you want to minimize the validity of the Quinnipiac poll, there is little I can say other than what I have already said. It is acknowledged as an independent and valid poll.

and OF COURSE you NOW know where QUinnipiac is..... [cough-bullshit-cough]

SO SUE ME!

I know where the school is. My son is a journalism major there....you obviously did NOT and tried to cover your own misstatement with bullshit.

Like you have never done anything like that... ok...sorry for the 'bullshit' ... obviously you have no sense of humor....noted

Do you HAVE any recent polling data on what the military thinks of Iraq or is all you have to offer anecdotal bullshit? Anecdotal evidence is bullshit...I'll keep that in mind.The poll shows that the majority of Americans want us the fuck out of Iraq and I think I explained very succinctly why they have come to that opinion. So do you have anything of substance to add to the discussion or will your input consist of tripe like this? Guess not...since you KNOW everything already...no point in trying to convince you, eh? You don't want discussion anyway...you want CONVERSION, PUNISHMENT and REPENTANCE...obviously you will have to look for a more gullible audience.

Thanks for the civil conversation...

 

[CSM]

if you denigrate a nationally recognized poll, demonstrate you have no idea of where it is taken and its national scope, and then compare it in validity and importance to a poll of military personnel alone, you should be prepared to have someone toss the bullshit flag. I did. If I did so with "unnecessary roughness", I apologize.

It wasn't your protestations...it was your attitude and you know it. You can rightly treat some of the posters here like that, but I have tried very hard to keep the tone civil between you and I...hopefully we can continue in that vein. If my attempts at humor failed with you then I too apologize and wil not attempt such in the future.

 

[red states rule]

if you denigrate a nationally recognized poll, demonstrate you have no idea of where it is taken and its national scope, and then compare it in validity and importance to a poll of military personnel alone, you should be prepared to have someone toss the bullshit flag. I did. If I did so with "unnecessary roughness", I apologize.

Still waiting for a link to the poll questions - all of them

 

[red states rule]

Thanks for the civil conversation...

That is as civil as it gets with him

 

[maineman]

I don't pretend to know everything already. I do know that the question fromthe QUinnipiac poll is a valid one. ANd the results for that question are instructive. I wrote a rather lengthy paragraph which stated my analysis of that answer and the reasons behind it. If you want to just denigrate the poll, I understand...and I understand WHY that might seem an easier argument to counter than my paragraph which followed. I have no desire to get into a pissing contest with you... or even to be uncivil. I just happen to be a guy who is vehemently opposed to this military action in Iraq and I have always been so. It is a phyrric victory for me to see that the American people are finally waking up and beginning to share my opposition.

 

[CSM]

That is as civil as it gets with him

To be fair, MM andf I have had some good discussions on this board. His hemeroids must be bothering him this morning.

 

[red states rule]

To be fair, MM andf I have had some good discussions on this board. His hemeroids must be bothering him this morning.

Perhaps he should get them checked out. It might be a brain tumor

 

[CSM]

I don't pretend to know everything already. I do know that the question fromthe QUinnipiac poll is a valid one. ANd the results for that question are instructive. I wrote a rather lengthy paragraph which stated my analysis of that answer and the reasons behind it. If you want to just denigrate the poll, I understand...and I understand WHY that might seem an easier argument to counter than my paragraph which followed. I have no desire to get into a pissing contest with you... or even to be uncivil. I just happen to be a guy who is vehemently opposed to this military action in Iraq and I have always been so. It is a phyrric victory for me to see that the American people are finally waking up and beginning to share my opposition.

I understand your position. I have the position that ALL polls are suspect (even the ones that supposedly support my POV) and that is why I have NEVER posted poll results to support anything I take as a POV. I respect your stance...I have to wonder if it is reciprocal.

 

[red states rule]

I don't pretend to know everything already. I do know that the question fromthe QUinnipiac poll is a valid one. ANd the results for that question are instructive. I wrote a rather lengthy paragraph which stated my analysis of that answer and the reasons behind it. If you want to just denigrate the poll, I understand...and I understand WHY that might seem an easier argument to counter than my paragraph which followed. I have no desire to get into a pissing contest with you... or even to be uncivil. I just happen to be a guy who is vehemently opposed to this military action in Iraq and I have always been so. It is a phyrric victory for me to see that the American people are finally waking up and beginning to share my opposition.

How about a link showing all the questions?

Your link showed polls about the candidates, but not the subject of this thread

 

[CSM]

"If you had to choose, which would you favor: the U.S. setting a timetable for removing its troops from Iraq and sticking to that timetable regardless of what is happening in Iraq, or the U.S. keeping troops in Iraq as long as necessary to secure the country, even if that takes many more years?"

Setting a Timetable for Removing Troops 57%
Keeping Troops as Long as Necessary 39%
Unsure 3%

I think that the longer this debacle in Iraq goes on and the longer the right continues to try and overplay the fear card and lump all those Iraqis fighting us and one another into some "one-size-fits-all--all-ragheads-are-our-enemy" "terrorist" category and ignore the fact that most of the folks killing US and killing Iraqis in Iraq are just sunni and shiite Iraqi citizens and NOT members of Al Qaeda or other groups bent on our destruction... the more the tide will continue to shift as Americans realize the repetitive idiocy of the administration's position. I think it is time to let the Iraqis stand on their own. Our own Vice President has stated that the Al Qaeda fighters in Iraq are nothing but a handful of deadenders in their final throes. How in the world can an army of 150 thousand Iraqi soldiers who have been trained for three years by the United States not be able to handle a handful of deadenders in their final throes? We have a war to fight against Islamic extremists. We can't afford to waste any more men money or time in Iraq. American people want us out...a majority of Iraqis believe that things will be better if we leave.... a majority of Iraqis support acts of violence against us! We toppled their dictator. We provided them with security while they wrote a constitution and held three free elections. We trained their military. They now want us out. They approve of attacks against us... I believe it is time to go. .

In essence, I agree with you...it is time for us to get out, but not for the reasons you state. Once the support of the citizens is lost (which appears to be the case) then our military can never win .... The people of this country have lost the will to fight and haven't had it since VietNam. Our enemies are correct in their assessment that the US is a paper tiger. All they have to do is wait for the media and population to engage, produce some casualties, and *viola* we hand them what they want.

 

[red states rule]

When Defeatocrats took over it made the job of the terrorists much easier

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Lets see... whom has more Knowledge of conditions in Iraq? A civilian in Maine or a military member in Iraq? A Liberal politician that never served a day in his life or a serving General in the military?

I know whom I would believe.

Your poll is as useful as say... Polling Registered Republicans and asking them if Liberals are sane or crazy.

You will get an opinion, but is it worth the time and effort of the poll? Is it indicitive of any important opinion?

 

[red states rule]

White Flag Harry Reid: We're Losing This War, and the Troops are Liars
"Senator Lost" Harry Reid, has unilaterally declared that the Iraq War is lost. Uh, Senator... how would you know and other top Democrats know, when you continue to skip briefings?

What's curious is that congressional Democrats don't seem much interested in what's actually happening in Iraq. The commander in Iraq, Gen. David Petraeus, returns to Washington this week, but last week Pelosi's office said "scheduling conflicts" prevented him from briefing House members. Two days later, the members-only meeting was scheduled, but the episode brings to mind the fact that Pelosi and other top House Democrats skipped a Pentagon videoconference with Petraeus on March 8.
Reid even labeled General David Petraeus a liar:

BASH: You talked several times about General Petraeus. You know that he is here in town. He was at the White House today, sitting with the president in the Oval Office and the president said that he wants to make it clear that Washington should not be telling him, General Petraeus, a commander on the ground in Iraq, what to do, particularly, the president was talking about Democrats in Congress.
He also said that General Petraeus is going to come to the Hill and make it clear to you that there is progress going on in Iraq, that the so-called surge is working. Will you believe him when he says that?

REID: No, I don't believe him, because it's not happening. All you have to do is look at the facts.



Look at the facts, Harry? You refuse to address the facts.

Here are a few comments for "Senator Lost" from men on the ground.

From a letter to Op-for:

We are winning over here in Al Anbar province. I don't know about Baghdad, but Ramadi was considered THE hotspot in Al Anbar, the worse province, and it has been very quiet. The city is calm, the kids are playing in the streets, the local shops are open, the power is on at night, and daily commerce is the norm rather than the exception. There have been no complex attacks since March. That is HUGE progress. This quiet time is allowing the Iraqi Army and Iraqi Police to establish themselves in the eyes of the people. The Iraqi people also want IA's and IP's in their areas. The Sunni Sheiks are behind us and giving us full support. This means that almost all Sunnis in Al Anbar are now committed to supporting the US and Iraqi forces. It also means that almost all insurgents left out here are AQ. FYI, the surge is just beginning. Gen Petraeus' strategy is just getting started and we're seeing huge gains here.
However, you don't see Harry Reid talking about this. When I saw what he said, it really pissed me off. That guy does not know what is going on over here because he hasn't bothered to come and find out. The truth on the ground in Al Anbar is not politically convenient for him, so he completely ignored it.



I suppose Reid considers this soldier a liar as well.

For more go to:

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/223936.php

 

[maineman]

How about a link showing all the questions?

Your link showed polls about the candidates, but not the subject of this thread

Gosh... I thought I made my position quite clear yesterday, but, to reiterate: I have absolutely no intention of answering any of your questions going forward until you have addressed the backlog of questions that I have posed to you and that you have continued to run away from.

It only seems fair. I seem to be able to carry on intelligent discussions with a variety of conservatives on this board....but not you. I have been quite clear on the fact that dialog requires more than insults at my party....but it requires responses to the things that I have written to you and the legitimate questions that your own posts have raised. When you decide to answer questions, you can have an expectation that I will, once again, begin to answer yours. Not until.

 

[red states rule]

Gosh... I thought I made my position quite clear yesterday, but, to reiterate: I have absolutely no intention of answering any of your questions going forward until you have addressed the backlog of questions that I have posed to you and that you have continued to run away from.

It only seems fair. I seem to be able to carry on intelligent discussions with a variety of conservatives on this board....but not you. I have been quite clear on the fact that dialog requires more than insults at my party....but it requires responses to the things that I have written to you and the legitimate questions that your own posts have raised. When you decide to answer questions, you can have an expectation that I will, once again, begin to answer yours. Not until.

So you do not have a link showing all the questions and sample size breakdown

 

[maineman]

Lets see... whom has more Knowledge of conditions in Iraq? A civilian in Maine or a military member in Iraq? A Liberal politician that never served a day in his life or a serving General in the military?

I know whom I would believe.

Your poll is as useful as say... Polling Registered Republicans and asking them if Liberals are sane or crazy.

You will get an opinion, but is it worth the time and effort of the poll? Is it indicitive of any important opinion?

if you are suggesting that we formulate our national position on how to use the military for the execution of our forign policy by polling the members of the military, I would beg to disagree. I have no doubt that miliary members have a good idea of the conditions on the ground in Iraq. I am also aware that 70% of the forces in Iraq believe that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, that we found them, and that he had a connection to 9/11....so their are clearly limits to the prescience and indepth understanding of the rank and file active duty member.

The quinnipiac poll is instructive.... I suggested what I thought it meant and what had driven the shift in public opinion. If you would care to debate that with me, I look forward to the conversation!

 

[red states rule]

if you are suggesting that we formulate our national position on how to use the military for the execution of our forign policy by polling the members of the military, I would beg to disagree. I have no doubt that miliary members have a good idea of the conditions on the ground in Iraq. I am also aware that 70% of the forces in Iraq believe that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, that we found them, and that he had a connection to 9/11....so their are clearly limits to the prescience and indepth understanding of the rank and file active duty member.

The quinnipiac poll is instructive.... I suggested what I thought it meant and what had driven the shift in public opinion. If you would care to debate that with me, I look forward to the conversation!

Still no link to all the questions and sample size breakdown