Questions for the muslims on the board

[actsnoblemartin]

I'm confused, why does the islamic community seem to vehemently dislike israel so much?

I mean, the muslim world has 57 countries, how come the jews cant have one

second, why does the quran have some verses, that arent very nice, almost seem down right hateful

and finally, what is islam about??

 

[Tom Clancy]

Muslims see the Jews as a Disease, actually more like an Abomination... (Most Muslims)

As I stated before, They think giving Israel about 0.5 of the Middle East is too much..

They don't want to negotiate, if they did, there would be a resolution..

And even if there was a so-called "Resolution" Hamas would continue firing Qassam Rockets into Israel..

This isn't about Land, or Peace.. This is about the Hatred and people wanting the Jews dead.

Sad really..

--

Quran, has some nice verses and some downright hateful ones..

Mostly, showing that a Woman isn't anything but an Object, the whole Jihad way of life, and all those Hate Messages it contains..

And like I said.. The Quran has some very nice verses..

--

Ask a Muslim..

 

[Kalam]

I'm confused, why does the islamic community seem to vehemently dislike israel so much?

Rather than attempting to assimilate without causing a complete social upheaval, Jewish immigrants flocked to Palestine and imposed their customs and laws on Muslims. Israel continues to slaughter and oppress Muslims with relative impunity. Resisting oppression is a duty incumbent on every Muslim of sound body and mind, so the state of Israel will be fought until it abandons its ideology of ethnic supremacism or until it's overthrown completely.

I mean, the muslim world has 57 countries, how come the jews cant have one

Try forming one where a non-Jewish population doesn't already exist...

second, why does the quran have some verses, that arent very nice, almost seem down right hateful

Examples?

and finally, what is islam about??

"As a religion, Islam stands for complete submission and obedience to Allah. Everyone can see that we live in an orderly universe, where everything is assigned a place in a grand scheme. The moon, the stars and all the heavenly bodies are knit together in a magnificent system. They follow unalterable laws and make not even the slightest deviation from their ordained courses. Similarly, everything in the world, from the minute whirling electron to the mighty nebula, invariably follows its own laws. Matter, energy and life - all obey their laws and grow and change and live and die in accordance with those laws. Even in the human world the laws of nature are paramount. Man’s birth, growth and life are all regulated by a set of biological laws. He derives sustenance from nature in accordance with an unalterable law. All the organs of his body, from the smallest tissues to the heart and the brain, are governed by the laws prescribed for them. In short, ours is a law-governed universe and everything in it is following the course that has been ordained for it. This powerful, all-pervasive law, which governs all that comprises the universe, from the tiniest specks of dust to the magnificent galaxies of the heavens, is the law of God, the Creator and Ruler of the universe. As the whole of creation obeys the law of God, the whole universe, therefore, literally follows the religion of Islam - for Islam signifies nothing but obedience and submission to Allah, the Lord of the Universe."​

- Abul A'la Maududi, Towards Understanding Islam

 

[Si modo]

Israel is a sovereign country and Israelis can do with it as they see fit.

 

[JW Frogen]

Rather than attempting to assimilate without causing a complete social upheaval, Jewish immigrants flocked to Palestine and imposed their customs and laws on Muslims. l

And who was there first, and and Islam got to Palestine how?

I thought you hated imperialism?

 

[editec]

Expecting that the state of Israel should come back into being with no blood on their hands is sort of silly when you look at it through the eyes of a historian.

What nation on earth would have the right to exist if we demanded that of them?

None. Certainly not the USA, as but one example.

I don't think that the Jews control Israel because "God gave this land to me", I think Israel exists for the same damned reason every othernation exists...

...because the current occupants took it from the previous occupants.

PROPERTY IS THEFT

That is as true today for every nation that exists as it ever was.


​

 

[Dr Gregg]

I'm confused, why does the islamic community seem to vehemently dislike israel so much?

I mean, the muslim world has 57 countries, how come the jews cant have one

second, why does the quran have some verses, that arent very nice, almost seem down right hateful

and finally, what is islam about??

probably because its a very holy city for not just Jews, but Muslims and Christians as well.

The bible has plenty of not very nice, violent and hateful verses also. So does Judaism.

The violence has more to do with being ruled by corruptions and having economical hardship, and these leaders for decades spreading anti-West propaganda and raising generations of kids that grow up to feel they are being wronged by the West. Islam is just used to justify the violence and rally the masses to think they have a religious duty to hate the West, as misguided as it is

 

[Dr Gregg]

Israel is a sovereign country and Israelis can do with it as they see fit.

Yeah, but they had no right to get the country in the first place IMO. Huge mistake after WWII, which frankly history may repeat itself with. The actions of WWI against the Germans lead to the rise of Hitler and WWII. Seems the actions of WWII may lead to WWIII. Hopefully not, but lots of tension caused by it

 

[Dr Gregg]

Israel is a sovereign country and Israelis can do with it as they see fit.

Yeah, but they had no right to get the country in the first place IMO. Huge mistake after WWII, which frankly history may repeat itself with. The actions of WWI against the Germans lead to the rise of Hitler and WWII. Seems the actions of WWII may lead to WWIII. Hopefully not, but lots of tension caused by it

Here's a comment from GHOok that I got for this post

You are you parent's huge mistake - They should have wore a condom!

Gotta laugh at a shining example of a forum idiot that can't actually argue their opinion, just attack others, all while putting forth absolutely no reason why what I said was wrong. Way to go GHook, impressive a child born from two retarded parents has the ability to type and use the internet

 

[Baruch Menachem]

As far as I can figure the argument, Israel is the last colonial outpost from 19th century colonialism. It is a European anachronism grafted into the middle east. That the folks who live there are rejected by Europeans is irrelevant, as it has a European style social order, government, and even sees itself more as part of Europe than the levant.

It is as if the US set up a colony in China and sent all the Indians there.

I am not endorsing the argument, I am just presenting it as the most coherent one I have heard.

Palestine before the Jews moved in was one of the worst managed and governed piece of real estate on earth. Its total population was tiny. Jerusalem was one of the biggest towns, and it had 10,000 in it. All there was before the Jews was scorpions, cactus and rocks. You can read contemporary accounts of the place over the years in many places.

The Muslims believe that Israel is a colony. It does not belong there. Whatever sins of the Europeans, Islam should not be afflicted by European wrongs.

As to point three, there are lots of place in the both the New and Old testiments that make modern people very uncomfortable. The story of lot and his daughters, the story of what happened to the tribe of Benjamin, the whole deal with Leviticus, how Joshua waged war, the book of Revelations, etc etc.

That said, a lot of the Koran makes the objective observer shudder. Even one inured to some of the problematic features of other 'holy' books.


Islam is about submission to the will of Gd. The word comes from the Arabic verb to Submit. It is also about return to first cases. Over time, religion becomes encrusted with hierarchy and rote practice. Islam is about maintaining fervor and submission to Gd's orders. You do what is demanded, there are lots of rewards. (Islam doesn't worry much about Hell. No where to the degree that Christianity does) The continued refrain throughout the Koran is Gd's infinite mercy and compassion.

Islam regards Judaism and Christianity as perversions of Gd's message. The essential message does not change, but things happen to break the message. Both Judaism and Islam have serious problems with the concept of the Virgin Birth, both sides considering it blasphemous, but the Muslims are a bit more hot under the collar about it. (Jews tend to get more insulted about the concept of Easter, but they don't make that big a deal of it, as the actual practice of Easter is not the theory of Easter) So Islam considers itself the redemption of religion from bad practice.

The moral code of Islam at best seems a parody of good sense, in my opinion. They excuse the inexcusable, and allow all kinds of grand sins, but go bat crazy over minor stuff. Islam allows cheating strangers, but makes women wear weird clothes to preserve virtue. But also allows marriage for definite terms, as little as an hour.
More so than Christianity, Islam is more about outward form rather than inward behavior. As long as you do the prayers, submit to the rules, what you do to your neighbor is irrelevant.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

Kalam, you mentioned making a jewish homeland where their wasnt a non jewish population. That is impossible, if you look at two factors, the holocaust, and 1948, where jews were kicked out of arab lands.

they only had israel to go to, and when did the palestinians ever own palestine, it was either ruled by the brits, and egypt and jordan

let me get this straight, israel with its 20% arab population opresses the palestians?, how do they do that, and why do you think.

Thanks for having this dialogue with me , i find it useful

TheReligionofPeace - Islam: Hatred and Hell

you wanted example in the quran, that i found objecitonable, here are a few

As mentioned, there are nearly 500 verses from 87 Suras that speak of Hell. This is just a sample:

Qur'an (40:71-72) - When the fetters and the chains shall be on their necks; they shall be dragged Into boiling water, then in the fire shall they be burned

Qur'an (22:19-21) - But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads; Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron

Qur'an (4:56) - Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment Lo! Allah is ever Mighty, Wise

Qur'an (56:92-94) - But if he is of the rejecters, the erring, then the welcome will be boiling water and roasting at hell-fire


As to what regard Muslims are to show for those who don't believe, the Qur'an says to be ruthless toward them, since they are going to Hell anyway:

Qur'an (9:73) - O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination

I'm confused, why does the islamic community seem to vehemently dislike israel so much?

Rather than attempting to assimilate without causing a complete social upheaval, Jewish immigrants flocked to Palestine and imposed their customs and laws on Muslims. Israel continues to slaughter and oppress Muslims with relative impunity. Resisting oppression is a duty incumbent on every Muslim of sound body and mind, so the state of Israel will be fought until it abandons its ideology of ethnic supremacism or until it's overthrown completely.

I mean, the muslim world has 57 countries, how come the jews cant have one

Try forming one where a non-Jewish population doesn't already exist...

second, why does the quran have some verses, that arent very nice, almost seem down right hateful

Examples?

and finally, what is islam about??

"As a religion, Islam stands for complete submission and obedience to Allah. Everyone can see that we live in an orderly universe, where everything is assigned a place in a grand scheme. The moon, the stars and all the heavenly bodies are knit together in a magnificent system. They follow unalterable laws and make not even the slightest deviation from their ordained courses. Similarly, everything in the world, from the minute whirling electron to the mighty nebula, invariably follows its own laws. Matter, energy and life - all obey their laws and grow and change and live and die in accordance with those laws. Even in the human world the laws of nature are paramount. Man’s birth, growth and life are all regulated by a set of biological laws. He derives sustenance from nature in accordance with an unalterable law. All the organs of his body, from the smallest tissues to the heart and the brain, are governed by the laws prescribed for them. In short, ours is a law-governed universe and everything in it is following the course that has been ordained for it. This powerful, all-pervasive law, which governs all that comprises the universe, from the tiniest specks of dust to the magnificent galaxies of the heavens, is the law of God, the Creator and Ruler of the universe. As the whole of creation obeys the law of God, the whole universe, therefore, literally follows the religion of Islam - for Islam signifies nothing but obedience and submission to Allah, the Lord of the Universe."​

- Abul A'la Maududi, Towards Understanding Islam

 

[Douger]

bUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUR P
Bullshit

 

[actsnoblemartin]

wow, really adding to the conversation/dialogue arent ya?

bUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUR P
Bullshit

 

[Kalam]

And who was there first, and and Islam got to Palestine how?

Who was there first? Neanderthals. Zionists lay claim to Palestine as if countless civilizations didn't occupy the land before the Israelites arrived. Islam came to Palestine after the Rashidun liberated the region from Byzantine Christian rule.

I thought you hated imperialism?

Of course.

 

[Kalam]

Israel is a sovereign country and Israelis can do with it as they see fit.

If they recognize that continuing on their present course will lead to their country's destruction, sure.

 

[Si modo]

Israel is a sovereign country and Israelis can do with it as they see fit.

If they recognize that continuing on their present course will lead to their country's destruction, sure.

Grow a pair and go fight them, then.

 

[Toro]

I'm confused, why does the islamic community seem to vehemently dislike israel so much?

I mean, the muslim world has 57 countries, how come the jews cant have one

second, why does the quran have some verses, that arent very nice, almost seem down right hateful

and finally, what is islam about??

Have you ever read Leviticus in the Bible? Talk about not nice.

Leviticus on slavery?worse than I imagined. (1) - By David Plotz - Slate Magazine

 

[jillian]

I'm confused, why does the islamic community seem to vehemently dislike israel so much?

I mean, the muslim world has 57 countries, how come the jews cant have one

second, why does the quran have some verses, that arent very nice, almost seem down right hateful

and finally, what is islam about??

Have you ever read Leviticus in the Bible? Talk about not nice.

Leviticus on slavery?worse than I imagined. (1) - By David Plotz - Slate Magazine

well, true, except jews don't follow leviticus... haven't since the temple was destroyed. so its been a while since anyone was stoned to death for mixing two fibers.

just sayin.

 

[THE LIGHT]

I'm confused, why does the islamic community seem to vehemently dislike israel so much?

I mean, the muslim world has 57 countries, how come the jews cant have one

second, why does the quran have some verses, that arent very nice, almost seem down right hateful

and finally, what is islam about??

One more question. If Muslims believe in the Bible to a certain extent. Where in the Bible does it prophesy about Mohamed?

 

[Kalam]

Kalam, you mentioned making a jewish homeland where their wasnt a non jewish population. That is impossible, if you look at two factors, the holocaust, and 1948, where jews were kicked out of arab lands.

The Holocaust? If the Holocaust was a driving force behind Israel's formation, Jews should have petitioned for the creation of a state in former Nazi territory. Palestine had nothing to do with the suffering of European Jews and should not have been partitioned and colonized to the detriment of those who had been living in the region before the arrival of the Jewish immigrants.

they only had israel to go to,

That's not true. Even if it was, it was their duty to assimilate and they clearly failed to do so. Many people complain about Muslims failing to integrate and attempting to "Islamicize" Europe and Western culture. That's precisely what Jewish immigrants did in Palestine.

and when did the palestinians ever own palestine, it was either ruled by the brits, and egypt and jordan

What difference does that make? Is subjugating a group of people somehow more permissible if they have a history of being subjugated?

let me get this straight, israel with its 20% arab population opresses the palestians?, how do they do that,

How? Answering that question fully would require a lot more time than you and I have. I'll give you some quick examples:

U.S. State Department: Israel is not a tolerant society - Haaretz - Israel News
Arabs are denied residency rights in Jerusalem, rights group says | j. the Jewish news weekly of Northern California

and why do you think.

Why do I think Israel pursues discriminatory policies? Israel pursues discriminatory policies because the belief that one ethnicity was "chosen" above all others encourages prejudice.

www.thereligionofpeace.com

you wanted example in the quran, that i found objecitonable, here are a few

As mentioned, there are nearly 500 verses from 87 Suras that speak of Hell. This is just a sample:

Qur'an (40:71-72) - When the fetters and the chains shall be on their necks; they shall be dragged Into boiling water, then in the fire shall they be burned

Qur'an (22:19-21) - But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads; Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron

Qur'an (4:56) - Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment Lo! Allah is ever Mighty, Wise

Qur'an (56:92-94) - But if he is of the rejecters, the erring, then the welcome will be boiling water and roasting at hell-fire

You're complaining about passages that describe disbelievers being in Hell? If that seems like novel concept to you, you may be disappointed to learn that virtually every religion teaches that sinners will suffer some sort of recompense in the hereafter.

As to what regard Muslims are to show for those who don't believe, the Qur'an says to be ruthless toward them, since they are going to Hell anyway:

Qur'an (9:73) - O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination

So what? Where in this ayah is "ruthlessness" mentioned? What makes you so certain that striving hard against unbelievers necessarily involves violence?