Questions For Muslims

[Chuckt]

Islam questions from Dr Geisler book on Answering Islam and Reaching Muslims for Christ by William J. Saal

(1) Has the Bible been annulled?
(2) Has the Bible been corrupted?
(3) Does the Bible contradict itself
(4) What do you believe about the gospel of Barnabus?
(5) Do you have any doubtful texts of the Bible?
(6) What does it mean to a Muslim that God is merciful and passionate? What does it mean to you?
(7) Is it possible for a Muslim to be saved without acknowledging the deity of Jesus?
(8) Did Jesus really die on the cross?
(9) What does the cross mean to a Muslim?
(10) What does the sacrifice in Genesis 22 mean to a Muslim in your tradition?
(11) What does it mean to you to have faith in and trust in the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross?
(12) Does the Bible contain prophecies of Mohammed?
(13) Does Mohammed meet the Biblical criteria for a prophet?


(1) Islam’s view of God involves a form of agnosticism because we can’t know God’s essence and therefore unable to know God.
(2) There are problems with Islamic Determinism because God performs contradictory actions as leading astray and being the one who guides.
(3) The moral problem with Islamic Determinism is that man isn’t responsible for his actions because God is responsible and I find it troubling that Islam doesn’t recognize the concept of Original sin. It has been stated that you would have to change the passage to state something else: [9:51] Say, "Nothing happens to us, except what GOD has decreed for us. He is our Lord and Master. In GOD the believers shall trust."
(4) 6:35 And if it distress thee that those who deny the truth [24] turn their backs on thee - why, then, if thou art able to go down deep into the earth or to ascend a ladder unto heaven [25] in order to bring them a [yet more convincing] message, [do so;] but [remember that] had God so willed, He would indeed have gathered them all unto [His] guidance. Do not, therefore, allow thyself to ignore [God's ways]. [26]

“If thou art able” implies that Muhammad wasn’t able to do miracles.

(5) The problem with there being no canon for the hadith seems to be troubling to anyone wanting to consider Islam.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Chuck, I do not know if Daws misunderstood you or if it was someone else here. The matter was about your having said Ishmael was not a son of Abraham, if I remember correctly. As you are a bible scholar I am thinking there must be some misunderstanding. Perhaps he thought you were saying Ishmael wasn't in the bible.

Anyway, I told Daws I would provide some references to Ishmael in the bible yesterday. I will post them here so he can see your thread and also you can see the scripture references to Ishmael I am giving him.

Genesis 16:11
Genesis 16:15
Genesis: 16:16
Genesis 17:18, 20, 23,26
Genesis 25: 9,12,13,16,17
Genesis 28:9
1 Chronicles 1:28,29, 31
2 Chronicles 19:11
1 Chronicles 8: 38, 44
2 Chronicles 23:1
Ezekiel 10:22
1 Kings 25:23
2 Kings 25:25
Jeremiah 40: 8, 14, 15, 16
Jeremiah 41: 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8,9
Jeremiah 41: 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 18

The reference for Ishaelites is in 1 Chronicles 27: 30
Also... Jude 8:24 and Psalm 83: 6

there are more but those are enough to verify the facts on Ishmaels birth, lineage, what his inheritance was,promises from God, prophecies concerning his descendants, etc.

 

[Chuckt]

Chuck, I do not know if Daws misunderstood you or if it was someone else here. The matter was about your having said Ishmael was not a son of Abraham, if I remember correctly. As you are a bible scholar I am thinking there must be some misunderstanding. Perhaps he thought you were saying Ishmael wasn't in the bible.

This is not what I was talking about. I see I may have to get my books out.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

You may as I posted this on the other thread and found that he believes all Muslims descended from the lineage of Abraham and his son Ishmael. That is not true. Mohammad was not born until 577 A.D. and Islam was not in existence until somewhere around 622 A.D. I believe. I know some have sought to claim the Druze religion is associated with Islam but I have spoken with those who know the Druze people in Israel and they say there is no truth in the claim.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Let me give this example to make my point. Mr. X is in college and converts to Islam after listening to a lecture by a Muslim scholar. Mr. X. is Irish American. All of his ancestors were Irish, none were Jewish, none were Egyptian, none were of middle eastern ethnicity yet Mr. X. is now told that because he converted to Islam and has become a Muslim he is now a descendant of Ishmael. Is Mr. X a descendant of Ishmael? No. He is not.

*
Neither is he a descendant of Abraham.

 

[Chuckt]

You may as I posted this on the other thread and found that he believes all Muslims descended from the lineage of Abraham and his son Ishmael. That is not true. Mohammad was not born until 577 A.D. and Islam was not in existence until somewhere around 622 A.D. I believe. I know some have sought to claim the Druze religion is associated with Islam but I have spoken with those who know the Druze people in Israel and they say there is no truth in the claim.

"If all the Arabs of the Middle East are the descendants of Abraham, whatever happened to all the Akkadians, Sumerians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, etc. that lived before, during, and after Abraham? What happened to all those millions of people who were not Abraham's descendants? Where did they go?", pg. 24, The Islamic Inbasion, Confronting the World's Fastest Growing Religion by Dr. Robert Morey

"Even the Dictionary Of Islam questions the whole idea that the Arabs are descendants of Ishmael.7
-ibid.

 

[The Irish Ram]

As the Bible is quite clear on Ishmael, and his parents, nothing is left up to our imagination.
Ishmael was Sarah's plan for her and her husband. Issac was God's plan for Sarah and Abraham. God stuck to His plan.
Even so, when Hagar called out to God, and was given a prophesy concerning her seed, it was the God of Abraham that she called out to, and was answered by.
Birth right has been the issue ever since.

Mr. X may not know his genealogy. The queen of English is Jewish and can trace her line back to David and consequently back to Abraham, but does not consider herself Jewish.
Because of the diaspora, and lost tribes, many fighting against Israel, will learn their own Jewish genealogy and will take up arms for Israel instead of against it.
There are lot of Jewish names, Jerome being one, in Ireland.
As for the battle between Ishmael and Issac, God loved Abraham, and Abraham loved his sons. And asked God to keep Ishmael in favor also. And God is going to, because He loves His friend Abraham.
And because Christ loves us all, His judgement on the nations based on their treatment of Israel, will be merciful. He will remove the hatred between the two brothers, which will cause them to love one another. And they will live together in harmony with Christ as their Bright Morning Star.

Isaiah 19:25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed [be] Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance

Issac and Ishmael's hatred for each other will bring this earth to utter destruction in the upcoming war. Only remnants of them both will survive it.
Christ's return will usher in peace between them and a love for each other that in turn will provide peace for us all. He will cause peace on earth, good will towards men to be in effect when He returns.
All of it resolved by the love Christ has for us.

Maranatha Lord, Maranatha

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

You may as I posted this on the other thread and found that he believes all Muslims descended from the lineage of Abraham and his son Ishmael. That is not true. Mohammad was not born until 577 A.D. and Islam was not in existence until somewhere around 622 A.D. I believe. I know some have sought to claim the Druze religion is associated with Islam but I have spoken with those who know the Druze people in Israel and they say there is no truth in the claim.

"If all the Arabs of the Middle East are the descendants of Abraham, whatever happened to all the Akkadians, Sumerians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, etc. that lived before, during, and after Abraham? What happened to all those millions of people who were not Abraham's descendants? Where did they go?", pg. 24, The Islamic Inbasion, Confronting the World's Fastest Growing Religion by Dr. Robert Morey

"Even the Dictionary Of Islam questions the whole idea that the Arabs are descendants of Ishmael.7
-ibid.

Well that is exactly the point. It is not possible but when you give these people ( such as Daws ) the answer they have no response. Which is why I think his reply to me was no, do not give me bible scriptures. ( do not give me truth ) I am familiar with Dr. Robert Morey's work and find him to be one of the most accurate scholars on the subject of Islam today. * If I am not mistaken he was challenged to a debate by a team of Muslim Scholars and soundly defeated all of them. It was quite a spectacular demonstration of the mans knowledge and wisdom concerning the history of Islam and bible scripture.

*It could have been Dr. Morey who challenged the team of Muslim Scholars to the debate. Whatever the case, the final outcome was he won.

 

[Sunni Man]

I am familiar with Dr. Robert Morey's work and find him to be one of the most accurate scholars on the subject of Islam today. * If I am not mistaken he was challenged to a debate by a team of Muslim Scholars and soundly defeated all of them. It was quite a spectacular demonstration of the mans knowledge and wisdom concerning the history of Islam and bible scripture.

You mean so called Dr. Robert Morey........ the goofy guy with the fake PhD in Islamic studies? .

When did this alleged debate take place???

And what 'trophy' did he receive for winning? .

http://www.loonwatch.com/2011/06/my...ctor-behind-the-allah-is-the-moon-god-theory/

 

[Chuckt]

I am familiar with Dr. Robert Morey's work and find him to be one of the most accurate scholars on the subject of Islam today. * If I am not mistaken he was challenged to a debate by a team of Muslim Scholars and soundly defeated all of them. It was quite a spectacular demonstration of the mans knowledge and wisdom concerning the history of Islam and bible scripture.

You mean so called Dr. Robert Morey........ the goofy guy with the fake PhD in Islamic studies? .

When did this alleged debate take place???

And what 'trophy' did he receive for winning? .

My God is Better Than Yours (II): Robert Morey, The Fake Doctor Behind the "Allah is the Moon-God" Theory | loonwatch.com

Where is your education?

Education

Dr. Robert A. Morey is the author of over 58 books, some of which have been translated into French, German, Italian, Dutch, Danish, Swedish, Spanish, Arabic, Farsi, Polish, and Finnish. He is listed in The International Authors and Writers Who’s Who and Contemporary Authors. Many of Dr. Morey’s books are also available in electronic library format from Logos Bible Software.

He earned a B.A. from Covenant College, an MDiv. and DMin. from Westminster Seminary, a PhD. from Louisiana Baptist University and an honorary D.D. from Faith Theological Seminary.

1969 B.A. (Philosophy) Covenant College
1972 M.Div. (Theology) Westminster Theological Seminary
1989 D.Min. (Apologetics) Westminster Theological Seminary
1996 D.D. (Islamic Studies) Faith Theological Seminary
2004 Ph.D. (Islamic Studies) Louisiana Baptist University
2005 Culinary Arts (chef) Thompson Institute

It should be noted that Dr. Robert A. Morey as a young protégé with an IQ of 185 was selected by Yale University in the tenth grade of high school to become part of the School Mathematics Study Group (SMSG). Dr. Bob is also a Greek and Hebrew scholar and has debated some of the top scholars in the world who are against Christianity--see some of his free video debates on this website.

Professional Training

He was elected chairman of the membership committee of the Evangelical Theological Society for several years. Dr. Morey is recognized internationally as a professional apologist and theologian whose careful scholarship and apologetic abilities establish him as one of Christianity’s top defenders. He is also adjunct Professor of Apologetics at Evangelical Theological Seminary and President of California Biblical University and Seminary.

Dr. Morey has studied alongside some great Christian theologians and apologists.
They include:

Walter Martin (NYC, NJ CRI)
Francis Schaeffer (Covenant College, L’Abri in Switzerland)
Gordon Clark (Covenant College)
Cornilius Van Til (WTS)
Hans Rookmaaker (NYC, Holland L’Abri)

Faith Defenders | Education and Training of Dr. Robert A. Morey | About Faith Defenders

Where are your credentials?

 

[Sunni Man]

"Worse than this, Morey is a quack, claiming credentials that are outright fake: on his website, he claims that he has an honorary doctor of divinity (D.D.) in Islamic Studies from the Faith Theological Seminary located in Pakistan. Firstly, it should be noted that an “honorary degree” would mean that he never actually attended the school at all.

But if this wasn’t bad enough, the degree itself is fraudulent. When the Faith Theological Seminary found out Morey was claiming to have a degree from their school, they categorically denied that they had ever issued such a degree to him and ordered him to remove the claim from his site or face criminal charges. The school referred to Morey’s “degree” as an “illegal and fake degree”. (Morey did not remove it from his site and continues to claim the degree.)

Robert Morey also claims a PhD in Islamic Studies from the Louisiana Baptist University (LBU). This is an unaccredited institution that is not recognized by the U.S. Department of Education or by the Council on Higher Education Accreditation (CHEA). LBU is a “distance learning program” (teaching via the internet), with one alumnus boasting that “the LBU program may be completed 100% via distance learning”, while noting that “I did spend one week on campus”. In other words, the PhD is “earned” over the internet, not the classroom.

In 1998, the Louisiana Board of Regents (a government agency responsible for overseeing higher education) issued a unanimous ruling to deny LBU an operating license for its business education programs, and ordered the school to cease admitting students and cease advertising. LBU was later exempted based on the religious institution exemption and was allowed to operate as a religious institution.

Once again, things go from bad to worse for Morey when the matter is investigated further. Morey claims on his bio that he has obtained a PhD degree in “Islamic Studies”. The only problem? LBU does not offer any such degree."

Following a familiar pattern, we find that the situation gets worse for “Dr.” Robert Morey when we find out that the Westminster Theological Seminary does not seem to offer a D.Min. in “Apologetics”. It is difficult to determine which of his “credentials” is more impressive: an “illegal or fake degree” from a real university or a fake degree from a fake university or a fake degree from a real university offering fluff degrees?

My God is Better Than Yours (II): Robert Morey, The Fake Doctor Behind the "Allah is the Moon-God" Theory | loonwatch.com

 

[Indofred]

The bible is an odd book.
It has been edited to hell and all the bits that were less than handy for sales to the masses, removed or simply ignored.
For "edited", read, ripped up.

75 Bible References on Drinking Alcohol

Christians should not drink alcohol but, as that was so unpopular, the rule was ignored or they used language to hide it.

Did Constantine decide what books belonged in the Bible?

Concerning manuscripts that were burned at the order of Constantine, there is really no mention of such a thing actually happening at the order of Constantine or at the Council of Nicea. The Arian party's document claiming Christ to be a created being, was abandoned by them because of the strong resistance to it and was torn to shreds in the sight of everyone present at the council.

As I said, they edited, aggressively.

T

 

[Chuckt]

"Worse than this, Morey is a quack, claiming credentials that are outright fake: on his website, he claims that he has an honorary doctor of divinity (D.D.) in Islamic Studies from the Faith Theological Seminary located in Pakistan. Firstly, it should be noted that an “honorary degree” would mean that he never actually attended the school at all.

First of all, your "proof" is from a hate site with "loon" in it's name.
Second, Pakistan is an Islamic country with Sharia law. All they have to do is put the screws to people and they will obey.

 

[Chuckt]

The bible is an odd book.
It has been edited to hell and all the bits that were less than handy for sales to the masses, removed or simply ignored.
For "edited", read, ripped up.

75 Bible References on Drinking Alcohol

Christians should not drink alcohol but, as that was so unpopular, the rule was ignored or they used language to hide it.

Did Constantine decide what books belonged in the Bible?

Concerning manuscripts that were burned at the order of Constantine, there is really no mention of such a thing actually happening at the order of Constantine or at the Council of Nicea. The Arian party's document claiming Christ to be a created being, was abandoned by them because of the strong resistance to it and was torn to shreds in the sight of everyone present at the council.

As I said, they edited, aggressively.

T

Concerning manuscripts that were burned at the order of Constantine, there is really no mention of such a thing actually happening at the order of Constantine or at the Council of Nicea. The Arian party's document claiming Christ to be a created being, was abandoned by them because of the strong resistance to it and was torn to shreds in the sight of everyone present at the council. Constantine, and the Council of Nicea, for that matter, had virtually nothing to do with the forming of the canon. It was not even discussed at Nicea. The council that formed an undisputed decision on the canon took place at Carthage in 397, sixty years after Constantine's death. However, long before Constantine, 21 books were acknowledged by all Christians (the 4 Gospels, Acts, 13 Paul, 1 Peter, 1 John, Revelation). There were 10 disputed books (Hebrews, James, 2 Peter, 2-3 John, Jude, Ps-Barnabas, Hermas, Didache, Gospel of Hebrews) and several that most all considered heretical—Gospels of Peter, Thomas, Matthaias, Acts of Andrew, John, etc.

Liberal scholars and fictional authors like to purport the idea that the gospels of Thomas and Peter (and other long-disputed books) contain truths that the church vehemently stomped out, but that simply has no basis historically. It is closer to the truth to say that no serious theologians really cared about these books because they were obviously written by people lying about authorship and had little basis in reality. That is one reason why a council declaring the canon was so late in coming (397 AD), because the books that were trusted and the ones that had been handed down were already widely known.

Did Constantine decide what books belonged in the Bible?

 

[Sunni Man]

"Worse than this, Morey is a quack, claiming credentials that are outright fake: on his website, he claims that he has an honorary doctor of divinity (D.D.) in Islamic Studies from the Faith Theological Seminary located in Pakistan. Firstly, it should be noted that an “honorary degree” would mean that he never actually attended the school at all.

First of all, your "proof" is from a hate site with "loon" in it's name.

Regardless of the name of the site.......the information is correct.

And that's what counts. ...

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I am familiar with Dr. Robert Morey's work and find him to be one of the most accurate scholars on the subject of Islam today. * If I am not mistaken he was challenged to a debate by a team of Muslim Scholars and soundly defeated all of them. It was quite a spectacular demonstration of the mans knowledge and wisdom concerning the history of Islam and bible scripture.

You mean so called Dr. Robert Morey........ the goofy guy with the fake PhD in Islamic studies? .

When did this alleged debate take place???

And what 'trophy' did he receive for winning? .

My God is Better Than Yours (II): Robert Morey, The Fake Doctor Behind the "Allah is the Moon-God" Theory | loonwatch.com

Years ago, Sunni. I was told it was held at a University before a very large audience. What trophy did he receive? Well, I don't know if one would call this a trophy but the reward for his victory was acid thrown at his car, his book was banned from distribution in the United States and he was forced into exile taking refuge in another country as the FBI had warned him his life was in grave danger. I think perhaps this was in response to his having openly humiliated the Muslim scholars in their loss of the debate.
This was the account I was given concerning the outcome of his victory due to that debate. I don't believe slandering Dr. Morey will help your position though. Why not read an independent assessment of his credentials before dismissing the story? - Jeri

 

[Sunni Man]

I am familiar with Dr. Robert Morey's work and find him to be one of the most accurate scholars on the subject of Islam today. * If I am not mistaken he was challenged to a debate by a team of Muslim Scholars and soundly defeated all of them. It was quite a spectacular demonstration of the mans knowledge and wisdom concerning the history of Islam and bible scripture.

You mean so called Dr. Robert Morey........ the goofy guy with the fake PhD in Islamic studies? .

When did this alleged debate take place???

And what 'trophy' did he receive for winning? .

My God is Better Than Yours (II): Robert Morey, The Fake Doctor Behind the "Allah is the Moon-God" Theory | loonwatch.com

Years ago, Sunni. I was told it was held at a University before a very large audience. What trophy did he receive? Well, I don't know if one would call this a trophy but the reward for his victory was acid thrown at his car, his book was banned from distribution in the United States and he was forced into exile taking refuge in another country as the FBI had warned him his life was in grave danger. I think perhaps this was in response to his having openly humiliated the Muslim scholars in their loss of the debate.

Sorry, but I don't believe the story is true.

And without any supporting evidence such as time, place, date......it's just a bunch of malarky. .

 

[Chuckt]

You mean so called Dr. Robert Morey........ the goofy guy with the fake PhD in Islamic studies? .

When did this alleged debate take place???

And what 'trophy' did he receive for winning? .

My God is Better Than Yours (II): Robert Morey, The Fake Doctor Behind the "Allah is the Moon-God" Theory | loonwatch.com

Years ago, Sunni. I was told it was held at a University before a very large audience. What trophy did he receive? Well, I don't know if one would call this a trophy but the reward for his victory was acid thrown at his car, his book was banned from distribution in the United States and he was forced into exile taking refuge in another country as the FBI had warned him his life was in grave danger. I think perhaps this was in response to his having openly humiliated the Muslim scholars in their loss of the debate.

Sorry, but I don't believe the story is true.

And without any supporting evidence such as time, place, date......it's just a bunch of malarky. .

In each of these amendments,298-A, 295-B and 295-C, the necessity to establish the deliberate and malicious intention of the accused is totally avoided. The measure of guilt depends entirely upon the subjective perception and sentiment of the hearer. The intention and knowledge of the accused is not taken into account easily allowing for prosecution of imputation, innuendo, or insinuation, directly or indirectly. The terms ' derogatory remarks ' or ' defile the sacred name ' are very vogue and broad based. Blame can easily be placed, and is used as rivalry and personnel grudges against Christians. The accused is snared in the web of the Pakistani Islamic Judicial System. Its very interesting that prior to 1980 there were almost no allegations of blasphemy.

There have been many arrest of Christians under section 295-B &C in Pakistan. some have been brutally murdered in day light from hands of radical Muslims, some killed in jails and police lock ups. Its fact that accused under blasphemy are not safe and cant fairly in trials of courts.

Pakistan Christian Congress

Funny how you can supposedly quote from these sources as an authority and at the same time deny the terror that is happening to non-Muslims.

 

[Chuckt]

"Worse than this, Morey is a quack, claiming credentials that are outright fake: on his website, he claims that he has an honorary doctor of divinity (D.D.) in Islamic Studies from the Faith Theological Seminary located in Pakistan. Firstly, it should be noted that an “honorary degree” would mean that he never actually attended the school at all.

First of all, your "proof" is from a hate site with "loon" in it's name.

Regardless of the name of the site.......the information is correct.

And that's what counts. ...

How do I know it is correct? How do I know that they didn't accuse someone of Blasphemy if they didn't comply.

In 1982, another amendment was made and section 295-B was added in PPC, punishable with imprisonment of life. In 1986, section 295-C, was added, the most serious, controversial and presently invoked amendment was made, a capital punishment of death penalty.

In each of these amendments,298-A, 295-B and 295-C, the necessity to establish the deliberate and malicious intention of the accused is totally avoided. The measure of guilt depends entirely upon the subjective perception and sentiment of the hearer. The intention and knowledge of the accused is not taken into account easily allowing for prosecution of imputation, innuendo, or insinuation, directly or indirectly. The terms ' derogatory remarks ' or ' defile the sacred name ' are very vogue and broad based. Blame can easily be placed, and is used as rivalry and personnel grudges against Christians. The accused is snared in the web of the Pakistani Islamic Judicial System. Its very interesting that prior to 1980 there were almost no allegations of blasphemy.

There have been many arrest of Christians under section 295-B &C in Pakistan. some have been brutally murdered in day light from hands of radical Muslims, some killed in jails and police lock ups. Its fact that accused under blasphemy are not safe and cant fairly in trials of courts.

Pakistan Christian Congress

 

[Unkotare]

I am not formally a Muslim...

But you're going to pretend to be an Imam anyway? Haven't made enough of an ass of yourself here already?