Questions and comments about individual mandate

[Ravi]

I've noticed and heard that the individual mandate was once called personal responsibility by the Republicans. This is the plan they favored when the country was faced with HillaryCare. In fact, as recently as 2009 Republican Chuck Grassley spoke in favor of the individual mandate, calling it personal responsibility. And yes, at the same time the Democrats were against an individual mandate.

I also notice that SCOTUS is hyper partisan and we all know that the vast majority of the nine justices will vote their party ideals and that is a shame. Perhaps we should have monkeys that throw darts at a dart board pick supreme court justices and we'd get a more bi-partisan panel.

My questions are:

1) If the individual mandate is unconstitutional because it forces all to pay money to a private insurance company then are not all privatization schemes also unconstitutional? (For instance, privatizing Medicare)

2) If the Senate, which is equal representation of all 50 States, voted to approve the individual mandate (which they did) how can anyone claim that the individual mandate is against State's rights?

3) If we are allowed to get health care at the emergency room, then shouldn't we be required to make everyone pay for it?

I would much rather have seen the public option, btw.

 

[IHBF]

2) If the Senate, which is equal representation of all 50 States, voted to approve the individual mandate (which they did) how can anyone claim that the individual mandate is against State's rights?

I believe some states like Virginia have passed legislation that basically says no citizen of Virginia can be penalized for not buying health insurance. This Act, a federal one, would conflict with that.


On a previous point you made: Why isn't the Occupy crowd up in arms about being forced to buy a product from a corporation?

 

[SniperFire]

I've noticed and heard that the individual mandate was once called personal responsibility by the Republicans. This is the plan they favored when the country was faced with HillaryCare. In fact, as recently as 2009 Republican Chuck Grassley spoke in favor of the individual mandate, calling it personal responsibility. And yes, at the same time the Democrats were against an individual mandate.

I also notice that SCOTUS is hyper partisan and we all know that the vast majority of the nine justices will vote their party ideals and that is a shame. Perhaps we should have monkeys that throw darts at a dart board pick supreme court justices and we'd get a more bi-partisan panel.

My questions are:

1) If the individual mandate is unconstitutional because it forces all to pay money to a private insurance company

That is not why the individual mandate is unconstitutional.

2) If the Senate, which is equal representation of all 50 States, voted to approve the individual mandate (which they did) how can anyone claim that the individual mandate is against State's rights?

The Senate is part of the Federal government, not the State governments.

3) If we are allowed to get health care at the emergency room, then shouldn't we be required to make everyone pay for it?

What you are saying is the liberal laws to force providers to give away their services is fucked up.

I would much rather have seen the public option, btw.

--

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Regarding Number Three -

How is it constitutional to force me to pay more because other's don't pay for their own care?

 

[Ravi]

2) If the Senate, which is equal representation of all 50 States, voted to approve the individual mandate (which they did) how can anyone claim that the individual mandate is against State's rights?

I believe some states like Virginia have passed legislation that basically says no citizen of Virginia can be penalized for not buying health insurance. This Act, a federal one, would conflict with that.


On a previous point you made: Why isn't the Occupy crowd up in arms about being forced to buy a product from a corporation?

I'm not sure how that law in Virginia will work. Do they also claim someone can't be penalized for not paying their payroll taxes?

As for OWS, I have no idea nor do I care.

 

[SniperFire]

Regarding Number Three -

How is it constitutional to force me to pay more because other's don't pay for their own care?

Don't buy the services if you don't wish.

Or better yet, dump Liberal politicians who insist on giving away healthcare to freeloaders, thereby driving up your costs.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Sniiper Fire

What you are saying is the liberal laws to force providers to give away their services is fucked up.

That's not even remotely related to what he/she said but my question is, why to rw's believe that those who pay for own insurance should be forced to pay for their care too?

I am so sick of the welfare right wingers who talk such a good game right up until they have to get their check book out and pay their own way. No one who pays for their own insurance would be stupid enough to NOT want the opportunity to pay less. Therefore, they also would not want the Affordable Health Care Act struck down.

 

[Ravi]

I've noticed and heard that the individual mandate was once called personal responsibility by the Republicans. This is the plan they favored when the country was faced with HillaryCare. In fact, as recently as 2009 Republican Chuck Grassley spoke in favor of the individual mandate, calling it personal responsibility. And yes, at the same time the Democrats were against an individual mandate.

I also notice that SCOTUS is hyper partisan and we all know that the vast majority of the nine justices will vote their party ideals and that is a shame. Perhaps we should have monkeys that throw darts at a dart board pick supreme court justices and we'd get a more bi-partisan panel.

My questions are:

1) If the individual mandate is unconstitutional because it forces all to pay money to a private insurance company

That is not why the individual mandate is unconstitutional.

2) If the Senate, which is equal representation of all 50 States, voted to approve the individual mandate (which they did) how can anyone claim that the individual mandate is against State's rights?

The Senate is part of the Federal government, not the State governments.

3) If we are allowed to get health care at the emergency room, then shouldn't we be required to make everyone pay for it?

What you are saying is the liberal laws to force providers to give away their services is fucked up.

I would much rather have seen the public option, btw.

--

Why is it unconstitutional, then?

The Senate is elected to represent their states.

So you think emergency services shouldn't be provided at all? I'm not totally sure, but I thought that was a Ronald Reagan thing.

 

[Ravi]

Regarding Number Three -

How is it constitutional to force me to pay more because other's don't pay for their own care?

You end up paying for it anyway in higher healthcare costs.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Regarding Number Three -

How is it constitutional to force me to pay more because other's don't pay for their own care?

That's between you and the insurer.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

I've noticed and heard that the individual mandate was once called personal responsibility by the Republicans. This is the plan they favored when the country was faced with HillaryCare. In fact, as recently as 2009 Republican Chuck Grassley spoke in favor of the individual mandate, calling it personal responsibility. And yes, at the same time the Democrats were against an individual mandate.

I also notice that SCOTUS is hyper partisan and we all know that the vast majority of the nine justices will vote their party ideals and that is a shame. Perhaps we should have monkeys that throw darts at a dart board pick supreme court justices and we'd get a more bi-partisan panel.

My questions are:

1) If the individual mandate is unconstitutional because it forces all to pay money to a private insurance company

That is not why the individual mandate is unconstitutional.

2) If the Senate, which is equal representation of all 50 States, voted to approve the individual mandate (which they did) how can anyone claim that the individual mandate is against State's rights?

The Senate is part of the Federal government, not the State governments.

3) If we are allowed to get health care at the emergency room, then shouldn't we be required to make everyone pay for it?

What you are saying is the liberal laws to force providers to give away their services is fucked up.

I would much rather have seen the public option, btw.

--

Why is it unconstitutional, then?

The Senate is elected to represent their states.

So you think emergency services shouldn't be provided at all? I'm not totally sure, but I thought that was a Ronald Reagan thing.

It forces a contract between an individual and an insurance company with penalties of fines or jail if said individual doesn't comply. No court will uphold a contract through coercion. That applies to any contract, not just healthcare.


Aside from that, I don't see other parts being struck down.

 

[WillowTree]

It's going down down down..

 

[SniperFire]

Sniiper Fire

What you are saying is the liberal laws to force providers to give away their services is fucked up.

That's not even remotely related to what he/she said

Sure it is. The only reason 'others are required to pay for it' is the liberal laws force the providers to give away services for free and raise everyone else's costs to compensate.

 

[DontBeStupid]

--

Why is it unconstitutional, then?

The Senate is elected to represent their states.

So you think emergency services shouldn't be provided at all? I'm not totally sure, but I thought that was a Ronald Reagan thing.

It forces a contract between an individual and an insurance company with penalties of fines or jail if said individual doesn't comply. No court will uphold a contract through coercion. That applies to any contract, not just healthcare.


Aside from that, I don't see other parts being struck down.

Point of fact, there is no jail time mentioned in the law.

 

[Ravi]

--

Why is it unconstitutional, then?

The Senate is elected to represent their states.

So you think emergency services shouldn't be provided at all? I'm not totally sure, but I thought that was a Ronald Reagan thing.

It forces a contract between an individual and an insurance company with penalties of fines or jail if said individual doesn't comply. No court will uphold a contract through coercion. That applies to any contract, not just healthcare.


Aside from that, I don't see other parts being struck down.

That at least makes sense, though I don't think there is any jail time involved. You can be incarcerated for not paying your taxes, but that is pretty rare.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Sniiper Fire

What you are saying is the liberal laws to force providers to give away their services is fucked up.

That's not even remotely related to what he/she said

Sure it is. The only reason 'others are required to pay for it' is the liberal laws force the providers to give away services for free and raise everyone else's costs to compensate.

Ronnie Ray-Gun was a republican.

 

[DontBeStupid]

1) If the individual mandate is unconstitutional because it forces all to pay money to a private insurance company then are not all privatization schemes also unconstitutional? (For instance, privatizing Medicare)

It's not the same. The GOP plan to changed Medicare to a voucher system, would not force anyone to get insurance or care or face a penalty. All the Ryan Voucher Plan would do is have the Federal government reimburse less and less for the services.

2) If the Senate, which is equal representation of all 50 States, voted to approve the individual mandate (which they did) how can anyone claim that the individual mandate is against State's rights?

Senators do not always perfectly represent the rights of their State.

3) If we are allowed to get health care at the emergency room, then shouldn't we be required to make everyone pay for it?

Yes, which is what the Mandate would effectively do, which makes me wonder why so many "conservatives" are against it. The Mandate would hold people personally responsible for their decisions and not allow them (as much) to dump those costs onto society.

If the GOP were truly for "Repeal and Replace" they would offer a law that penalizes people who use ER services and then never pay for them.

I would much rather have seen the public option, btw.

Agreed.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Why is it unconstitutional, then?

The Senate is elected to represent their states.

So you think emergency services shouldn't be provided at all? I'm not totally sure, but I thought that was a Ronald Reagan thing.

It forces a contract between an individual and an insurance company with penalties of fines or jail if said individual doesn't comply. No court will uphold a contract through coercion. That applies to any contract, not just healthcare.


Aside from that, I don't see other parts being struck down.

Point of fact, there is no jail time mentioned in the law.

That's correct. It was Bill O'Reilly who started THAT particular lie. He was called on it several times, he repeated it several times and now, all the rws can remember is that their gawd, O'Reilly said it so it must be true.

A lot like the utterly stupid "death panels" and Joe Wilson's lie that President Obama lied.

One the rw's get a lie like this going, they won't let go. They'll just keep repeating it.

Several here screeched at me when I explained what I was saving. They said I couldn't be saving any money because the Act isn't in effect yet.

How can people say they hate something when they don't even know what it is?

 

[WillowTree]

It forces a contract between an individual and an insurance company with penalties of fines or jail if said individual doesn't comply. No court will uphold a contract through coercion. That applies to any contract, not just healthcare.


Aside from that, I don't see other parts being struck down.

Point of fact, there is no jail time mentioned in the law.

That's correct. It was Bill O'Reilly who started THAT particular lie. He was called on it several times, he repeated it several times and now, all the rws can remember is that their gawd, O'Reilly said it so it must be true.

A lot like the utterly stupid "death panels" and Joe Wilson's lie that President Obama lied.

One the rw's get a lie like this going, they won't let go. They'll just keep repeating it.

Several here screeched at me when I explained what I was saving. They said I couldn't be saving any money because the Act isn't in effect yet.

How can people say they hate something when they don't even know what it is?

We have to pass this bill before we know what's in it! Nancy Pelosi.. so conversely wasn't she stupid for voting yes to a bill when she didn't even know what was in it? so were all the stupid democrats.. Not a single Republican voted for it.. Good for the smart Republicans.. What the hell kind of idiot would vote for something when they had no clue what was in it??

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I've noticed and heard that the individual mandate was once called personal responsibility by the Republicans. This is the plan they favored when the country was faced with HillaryCare. In fact, as recently as 2009 Republican Chuck Grassley spoke in favor of the individual mandate, calling it personal responsibility. And yes, at the same time the Democrats were against an individual mandate.

I also notice that SCOTUS is hyper partisan and we all know that the vast majority of the nine justices will vote their party ideals and that is a shame.

It’s also inconsistent on the part of the conservatives, Scalia in particular; where conservative jurisprudence rejects citizens running to the courts whenever a law is passed someone doesn’t like, rejecting the will of the people and overturning laws passed by democratically elected lawmakers. Republicans and conservatives refer to this as ‘legislating from the bench’ and ‘judicial activism.’

But you’re correct: the ACA was dead before the justices granted cert.

1) If the individual mandate is unconstitutional because it forces all to pay money to a private insurance company then are not all privatization schemes also unconstitutional? (For instance, privatizing Medicare)

The ‘privatizing’ of Medicare would be accomplished by getting rid of it, something along the lines of Ryan’s first budget proposal. The government might drop a few bucks in your lap and let you go fend for yourself. If you can’t afford health insurance after that, too bad.

2) If the Senate, which is equal representation of all 50 States, voted to approve the individual mandate (which they did) how can anyone claim that the individual mandate is against State's rights?

The issue is: does the Commerce Clause authorize Congress to regulate the health insurance industry to the extent of ‘mandating’ purchasing insurance, or more precisely, subjecting one to some ‘punitive measure’ for failing to do so. It’s not a ‘states’ rights’ issue per se; but to many radical rightists who believe Congress lacks the authority to do anything, they’ve incorrectly contrived this to be a ‘states’ rights’ issue.

3) If we are allowed to get health care at the emergency room, then shouldn't we be required to make everyone pay for it?

Everyone is required to pay for it, de facto – when indigent care is provided we pay for it through various public funding sources, state and local. We also pay for it through our ever-increasing insurance premiums.

I would much rather have seen the public option, btw.

I would have as well.