Question:

[Coloradomtnman]

Really........ I lived in Denver 13 years ago near 38th and Zuni, very Hispanic neighborhood at the time, now it has become quite yuppified. I got along with my neighbors because they heard me playing Santana a lot(one neighbor told me with a thick Mexican accent...."you know a lot about Santana for a white boy!". There were gunshots almost every night, I slept with a 357 under my pillow during the summer since the house had no ac (typical in Denver) and I had to keep the windows open. The house in front with 3 generations of Garcias, was shot up in a drive by. The Garcias, most on some form of welfare, had keg parties a minimum of 4 times a week in their backyard/my front yard. There was always plenty of weed available also. I enjoyed my time there because I made an effort to fit in, but, it was also a very scary place to live compared to my neighborhood now........ I don't think twice about walking down my street at 3 am to check my mail........ wouldn't of happened there.
One other thing, these people were easily the biggest racist I have ever been around, I am from the deep deep south and have never heard the word ****** used as often as in one conversation with the Garcias. They disliked all other races including the "wet backs" (their term) that were everywhere in the Denver area. When my ex-girlfriend living in the Liberal Republic of Boulder told me she wanted to visit Nepal to see another culture, I told her to save her money and stay in my neighborhood for a couple of weeks.......... she didn't, that wouldn't have given her any lib-cred. She was always quick to throw out the racist accusation even though she lived in a place that was overwhelmingly white......... they only allowed blacks in town to play football at CU.

That's weird, I work near 38th & Zuni, and I don't see any Yuppies at all. I don't see anything but Latinos. That itself is no problem, but 25 years ago, that area was known as "little Italy". What suprises me, that LEGAL Mexican immigrants are very uncomfortable around illegal aliens. That is something that rarely gets any attention. Illegal aliens put everybody off. And the reason is pretty damned obvious. They don't want to adopt the host culture, they want to ignore us. As if we didn't matter or exsist. That is something immigrants NEVER do. Which goes back to my original post. What do we do with these people? I don't know.

The last time I was there , about 3 years ago, it appeared that many young professionals were rebuilding the classic old homes in that neighborhood, I figured it would continue, you obviously would have a much better idea of what is happening there now.

Its true. The Highlands are being rapidly gentrified. There are blocks where the residents are hispanics, then across the street are blocks of young hipster kids, and then the next block over are old decrepit Victorian-era houses that have been remodeled into nice, expensive homes for yuppies. Kinda like Lodo and just north of downtown at Five Points and the Cole neighborhood, where I live at 36th and Williams, where upper-middle class young white couples are buying fixer-uppers and slowly changing the 'hood into the 'burbs. There's no way in hell I would've lived where I do now 10 years ago with all the gang violence that Denver was going through at the time, but things have certainly changed.

Now the worst places to live are Commerce City, Montbello, Saudi Aurora, East Colfax, West Colfax (Federal and west until you get to west Lakewood/east Golden) south Federal, and Sheridan and Wadsworth around 6th Ave. And those places aren't that bad.

Boulder isn't the liberal paradise it used to be. At least not genuinely so. There are the wealthy, psuedo-liberals that make up the most of the residents of the western side of town; then there are the real liberals who attend Naropa or who live in Nederland, and the rest of Boulder is far more conservative including CU. When I attended CU three years ago there was graffiti found on some of the buildings saying things like "******" or "Fag" and one of the professors, a lesbian, had received death threats. Ward Churchill, another psuedo-liberal, was kicked out of the school because of his little Eikman comment (not because he was a fraud - he won the suit recently. Don't get me wrong, he was a fraud but that isn't why he was fired). The student council and government were overwhelmingly Republican (which surprised me because I thought it didn't really matter when in college what polititcal party one belonged to if serving in student government) but the student body president made it very publicly known that he was a conservative Republican. Denver has become far more liberal than Boulder, culturally speaking, even if Boulder still retains a large liberal population and a liberal government. It won't last. "Times they are a changin'."

 

[Coloradomtnman]

You can have the nicest neighbors in the world, and if that's the case, it a very good thing BUT people living in America need to speak English. I get so tired of going to Wal-Mart, McDonald's, out to just about any public place and keep hearing this constant chatter in Spanish. I also find it offending that many of the things you buy in the store are now labeled to accomodate Spanish speaking folks, mostly Mexicans. This is America. I shouldn't have to press 1 to get something in English. If you're going to be here, be here legally and for God's sake, speak ENGLISH.

Oh, God, BBD. The US has never had an official language. Why do you care what language people speak? What harm does it cause you that Spanish is written on labels or on signs or you hear it spoken? Get over your xenophobia, man.

First post here.

I cant stand that philosophy. So what, our country doesnt have an "official" language. English has been spoken by the majority from 1776 until about 1996...then all the immigrants were told by the bleeding hearts that they didnt neeeeeed to learn English, that they are fiiiiiine the way they arrrrrre. Well screw that, the rest of the world's countries have official languages and just because it isnt written somewhere that English is the official language does it mean that people can be lazy and not learn the language of the country they just moved into, illegally or legally.

God, Dems will do anything for a vote...including sell out their own country.

Yeah, not forcing immigrants to learn English sure is selling out our own country. Give me a break. How about giving tax breaks to huge oil companies that sell us foreign oil who then make record profits in the billions of dollars? Something tells me that that is selling out our country.

Why do you care if some immigrants don't learn English? What does that do to you, or how does it affect you or your life? Does it somehow cause you harm to hear people speaking another language in this country? Sounds like xenophobia and bigotry to me.

 

[JBeukema]

Language is one of the most powerful unifying factors. Combine this loss of identity with non-enforcement of sovereignty (read: non-existent borders) and no nation can survive.

 

[LaLinda75]

Alot of opportunities are lost in this country when one does not speak english. It has nothing to do with bigotry or xenophobia (the word of the 21st century). It has to do more with making it a better country when one can communicate in english. That is just the reality. But - it IS a free country therefore it's a mute argument as one is free to do whatever one wishes to do - learn or not learn it and to make it a bigotry issue or a xenophobia issue is silly.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Alot of opportunities are lost in this country when one does not speak english. It has nothing to do with bigotry or xenophobia (the word of the 21st century). It has to do more with making it a better country when one can communicate in english. That is just the reality. But - it IS a free country therefore it's a mute argument as one is free to do whatever one wishes to do - learn or not learn it and to make it a bigotry issue or a xenophobia issue is silly.

What opportunities are lost? If someone doesn't speak the language of the vast majority of this country's citizens, the only opportunities lost are those of the person who doesn't learn the common language. I don't care if they don't learn English. We need janitors, fruit pickers, burger flippers, car washers, etc. And it creates opportunities for those who learn Spanish. Bilingual workers get paid better and have more opportunities, at least they do out West.

The reason I call bigot is because to react so vehemently to people not speaking English in the US is about fear and hatred of others based solely on language, ethnicity, and nationality.

 

[JBeukema]

If I move to their country, I'll learn their language. If they want to come to our country, they learn our language. If they want to turn America into the shithole they made their country into, they can go back.

 

[Ravi]

Alot of opportunities are lost in this country when one does not speak english. It has nothing to do with bigotry or xenophobia (the word of the 21st century). It has to do more with making it a better country when one can communicate in english. That is just the reality. But - it IS a free country therefore it's a mute argument as one is free to do whatever one wishes to do - learn or not learn it and to make it a bigotry issue or a xenophobia issue is silly.

What opportunities are lost? If someone doesn't speak the language of the vast majority of this country's citizens, the only opportunities lost are those of the person who doesn't learn the common language.

Excellent point. If these people were consistent they'd actually make a law saying non-citizens cannot speak english. I can only conclude that they are offended by hearing other languages. Boo hoo.

btw, in my state english is the official language and that translates into meaning exactly nothing.

 

[JBeukema]

If these people were consistent they'd actually make a law saying non-citizens cannot speak english

That's a total non-sequitur; thank you for once again demonstrating the utter stupidity of the Left

 

[Coloradomtnman]

If I move to their country, I'll learn their language. If they want to come to our country, they learn our language. If they want to turn America into the shithole they made their country into, they can go back.

Sometimes I admire your ability to think rationally and logically. This is not one of those times.

 

[JBeukema]

I am being perfectly logical and reasonable. You move to America to be an American ans enjoy what America is and was meant to be. I don't walk around speaking Dutch. I don't wave the Dannebrog around. I don't try to turn this country into what my grandmother, who left (Mexico because it's a shithole and America is better) left behind and walked away from. I remember why they left and that they came to America because they wanted to live in America, not because they wanted to turn it into a clone of everything they left behind in hopes of something better.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

I am being perfectly logical and reasonable. You move to America to be an American ans enjoy what America is and was meant to be. I don't walk around speaking Dutch. I don't wave the Dannebrog around. I don't try to turn this country into what my grandmother, who left (Mexico because it's a shithole and America is better) left behind and walked away from. I remember why they left and that they came to America because they wanted to live in America, not because they wanted to turn it into a clone of everything they left behind in hopes of something better.

What logic leads you to believe that immigrants leaving their homelands with which they obviously weren't happy or even remotely content and coming to the US are trying to turn the US into the very country from which they are escaping?

See? Not logical.

 

[JBeukema]

I am being perfectly logical and reasonable. You move to America to be an American ans enjoy what America is and was meant to be. I don't walk around speaking Dutch. I don't wave the Dannebrog around. I don't try to turn this country into what my grandmother, who left (Mexico because it's a shithole and America is better) left behind and walked away from. I remember why they left and that they came to America because they wanted to live in America, not because they wanted to turn it into a clone of everything they left behind in hopes of something better.

What logic leads you to believe that immigrants leaving their homelands with which they obviously weren't happy or even remotely content and coming to the US are trying to turn the US into the very country from which they are escaping?

See? Not logical.

When they run around yelling 'VIVA MEXICO', fly Mexican flags in place of American flags, seek to replace our language and culture with their own, destroy our borders and undrmine our soveriwengty...

yes, many of them want to turn America in to Mexico. Interestingly, it's usually the 2nd generation idiots who do this, who forget why their families came over here in the first damned place. I remember why my family came here. Mama's family wanted nothing to do w/ early 20's Europe and Nana wanted nothing to do with the 3rd world shithole that is Mexico. I appreciate what America is and why they came here. Too many people don't.

 

[sitarro]

I am being perfectly logical and reasonable. You move to America to be an American ans enjoy what America is and was meant to be. I don't walk around speaking Dutch. I don't wave the Dannebrog around. I don't try to turn this country into what my grandmother, who left (Mexico because it's a shithole and America is better) left behind and walked away from. I remember why they left and that they came to America because they wanted to live in America, not because they wanted to turn it into a clone of everything they left behind in hopes of something better.

What logic leads you to believe that immigrants leaving their homelands with which they obviously weren't happy or even remotely content and coming to the US are trying to turn the US into the very country from which they are escaping?

See? Not logical.

Now I see why you could be a liberal, you hike around with blinders on. Are you kidding? Immigrants? Try users, people that use this country to make money to sennd back to their country. Immigrants are people that come to a country to actually become part of that country, not continue to worship the country they left.

Living in Colorado, you should know it better than most. I watched as wave after wave of people from California moved into Colorado in the nineties to escape the fires, earthquakes, riots, taxes, etc. They came with condescending attitudes and all sorts of great ideas to change Colorado into what they just left. People from Chicago moved in and wanted to turn Denver into what they left, they wanted baseball so they could go sit on their fat asses and watch, rather than do what most Colorado did.......... actually participate in activities themselves. Coloradans were active, busy people that wouldn't sit and waste hours watching others play a game, except for football fans and the Broncos, most were spending their time rollerblading, running, biking, walking, hiking, playing assorted sports, skiing...... etc.

Denver isn't recognizable from what it was in the eighties, it's now any big city, with crime, gangs, traffic jams, rude people and excess and growing waist lines.

 

[JBeukema]

What happened to my other post?

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Now I see why you could be a liberal, you hike around with blinders on. Are you kidding? Immigrants? Try users, people that use this country to make money to sennd back to their country. Immigrants are people that come to a country to actually become part of that country, not continue to worship the country they left.

Where did you get your understanding of what it means to immigrate to another country? I don't think immigrating has anything at all to do with adopting a new culture and abandoning one's own. Some people may adapt to the new culture better than others, but I would say that has more to do with tradition and cultural conservatism more than it does someone "using" another economy to help support their less fortunate family members back in their native country.

What would you do if you moved to a country with more opportunity, better opportunities, where you made more money by a factor of 10s? Would you abandon and ignore your impoverished family who remain in your hopelessly poor nation of origin?

Living in Colorado, you should know it better than most. I watched as wave after wave of people from California moved into Colorado in the nineties to escape the fires, earthquakes, riots, taxes, etc. They came with condescending attitudes and all sorts of great ideas to change Colorado into what they just left. People from Chicago moved in and wanted to turn Denver into what they left, they wanted baseball so they could go sit on their fat asses and watch, rather than do what most Colorado did.......... actually participate in activities themselves. Coloradans were active, busy people that wouldn't sit and waste hours watching others play a game, except for football fans and the Broncos, most were spending their time rollerblading, running, biking, walking, hiking, playing assorted sports, skiing...... etc.

I think people moving to Colorado from California and Chicago aren't really "immigrants" in the same sense as people moving to the US from foreign nations. False analogy.

Denver is still the most active city in the US, by the way. And the youngest and drunkest, too.

Denver isn't recognizable from what it was in the eighties, it's now any big city, with crime, gangs, traffic jams, rude people and excess and growing waist lines.

What has that at all to do with the subject of this thread?

 

[Vel]

What does that do to you, or how does it affect you or your life? [/B] Does it somehow cause you harm to hear people speaking another language in this country? Sounds like xenophobia and bigotry to me.

Why don't we start with the property tax increase my county just levied to pay for the ESL classes ( ESL teachers starting pay is about 12,000 a year higher than regular starting teacher pay) in our public schools as well as the cost of having to provide translators for all of our court sessions.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

What does that do to you, or how does it affect you or your life? [/B] Does it somehow cause you harm to hear people speaking another language in this country? Sounds like xenophobia and bigotry to me.

Why don't we start with the property tax increase my county just levied to pay for the ESL classes ( ESL teachers starting pay is about 12,000 a year higher than regular starting teacher pay) in our public schools as well as the cost of having to provide translators for all of our court sessions.

So, you're complaining about people who don't speak English, and then complaining about paying teachers to teach people who don't speak English to speak English? You want your cake and eat it too, huh (translation: you want it both ways [in case English isn't your first language or thinking your first reaction]).

Sounds like good job opportunities for bilingual Americans to me.

 

[sitarro]

Now I see why you could be a liberal, you hike around with blinders on. Are you kidding? Immigrants? Try users, people that use this country to make money to sennd back to their country. Immigrants are people that come to a country to actually become part of that country, not continue to worship the country they left.

Where did you get your understanding of what it means to immigrate to another country? I don't think immigrating has anything at all to do with adopting a new culture and abandoning one's own. Some people may adapt to the new culture better than others, but I would say that has more to do with tradition and cultural conservatism more than it does someone "using" another economy to help support their less fortunate family members back in their native country.

What would you do if you moved to a country with more opportunity, better opportunities, where you made more money by a factor of 10s? Would you abandon and ignore your impoverished family who remain in your hopelessly poor nation of origin?

Living in Colorado, you should know it better than most. I watched as wave after wave of people from California moved into Colorado in the nineties to escape the fires, earthquakes, riots, taxes, etc. They came with condescending attitudes and all sorts of great ideas to change Colorado into what they just left. People from Chicago moved in and wanted to turn Denver into what they left, they wanted baseball so they could go sit on their fat asses and watch, rather than do what most Colorado did.......... actually participate in activities themselves. Coloradans were active, busy people that wouldn't sit and waste hours watching others play a game, except for football fans and the Broncos, most were spending their time rollerblading, running, biking, walking, hiking, playing assorted sports, skiing...... etc.

I think people moving to Colorado from California and Chicago aren't really "immigrants" in the same sense as people moving to the US from foreign nations. False analogy.

Denver is still the most active city in the US, by the way. And the youngest and drunkest, too.

Denver isn't recognizable from what it was in the eighties, it's now any big city, with crime, gangs, traffic jams, rude people and excess and growing waist lines.

What has that at all to do with the subject of this thread?

Why don't you send your money to Mexico to support all of those swell people, I don't want my taxes paying for them to come here and fuck up our country. I work with enough hispanics to know that the bullshit mentality that they are hard workers is a joke. What are the positives of having people move here that owe their allegiance to another country? Let them use the same energy they expend breaking our laws and sneaking in our country to fix their own lousy countries and stay there. We don't need useless, uneducated burdens to our society moving here, you may want them for whatever utopian ideology you profess to, but most here don't want them.

Being a drunk is nothing to brag about, it's only impressive to ignorant kids and frats.

 

[JBeukema]

I noticed CMM stopped responding to my points

 

[Vel]

What does that do to you, or how does it affect you or your life? [/B] Does it somehow cause you harm to hear people speaking another language in this country? Sounds like xenophobia and bigotry to me.

Why don't we start with the property tax increase my county just levied to pay for the ESL classes ( ESL teachers starting pay is about 12,000 a year higher than regular starting teacher pay) in our public schools as well as the cost of having to provide translators for all of our court sessions.

So, you're complaining about people who don't speak English, and then complaining about paying teachers to teach people who don't speak English to speak English? You want your cake and eat it too, huh (translation: you want it both ways [in case English isn't your first language or thinking your first reaction]).

Sounds like good job opportunities for bilingual Americans to me.

What I want is for those that are moving here to take responsibility for learning the language and not expect the general public to pay for it. Is that simple enough for YOU to understand?