Question of hell

[Cecilie1200]

I think that God Judges Us Individually because that is how He made Us. Conscience see's past Language and Culture, and outside Influence. Think Holy Spirit.

While it is true that God judges us individually, it doesn't change the fact that the standard for going to Heaven is objective, and not based on our personal goodness. We do not earn our way to Heaven by impressing God with how spiffy we are in and of ourselves. Salvation is not commerce, where you pay X price and get Y reward, or a little kid trading good behavior in exchange for an eternal trip to Disneyland. It's a gift, and if you don't accept the gift, it doesn't matter what else you did.

That's right it's a gift that comes after your works. You couldn't get it on your own. But that's another discussion for another forum.

It's a gift that comes after ONE work: acceptance of the gift. If it required any more works, it wouldn't be a gift any more. We call that a "payment".

 

[Cecilie1200]

Cecilie, tru and intense, keep believing in that book written from heresay by men. I hear there's a sequel coming soon?
Amazing though that peeps can run their whole lives and belief systems by a book of fiction.

Well, I tell you what. When believing in and following that book stops working for me, maybe THEN I'll be interested in hearing about YOUR great and wonderful insight into how to live my life. I'm always fascinated to meet people who believe they have achieved greater enlightenment in and of themselves than moral codes and belief systems that have been working for centuries.

 

[Cecilie1200]

My god has given me a purpose in life, to show those afflicted with religion the error of their ways.

Okay. You can start with a detailed description of how wonderful following YOUR god has made YOUR life. We can certainly eliminate "made me popular and helped me win friends easily" from the list right now.

 

[logical4u]

For all you people with a strong religous belief, christians or muslims:

If a person lives his whole life as a good, law abaiding and honest person but totally reject the idea of the existens of a God. Or perhaps this person even worship something else. The wrong God.

Would he be sent to hell?

In the book, Revelations, it talks about the judgement.
What I got out of it: every person will be judged and evey knee will bend before Him (Yeshua). At that point if you have lived your life believing and doing good works, you will be rewarded. If you are repentant (either always believed, or not sure, or not knowledgeable about Yeshua) for your sins and accept the One before you as the Lord, you have a very good chance of being forgiven and welcomed into heaven.
That said, I was listening to one man that said, the Lord is just: you will be punished according to your sins (even if you are forgiven), kind of like a child be punished by their parent (the parent still loves the child and has forgiven them), but the child must be taught the consequences of their actions.

 

[Big Black Dog]

Doesn't matter which church you attend. Depends on which church you attend as to what your actual religious beliefs are concerning the acceptance of God. If you believe, and have given your heart to the Lord, then you are "saved" from the lake of fire.

 

[Intense]

The Conscience is the window to the Soul, Keep nothing closer, Jesus is there, too.

 

[Truthspeaker]

A lot of people believe in a different concept of heaven/hell than their subscribed religion. They just believe the parts they agree with. It seems most people believe that they will be judged according to their actions and hearts; even if their religion might teach them otherwise.

I think this is interesting because it is what makes sense.

 

[RodISHI]

The Bible is specific. It describes Hell as separation from God. If you do not believe in God you are stuck down here sleeping in the dust (aka confusion) of the earth. That place of confusion where you know only death of the flesh that turns back into dust and you cannot understand the eternal life that is given freely by the breath of the Spirit of God through Jesus (Jehovah with us. The Word of God). Heaven is God's throne. It is that spirit of Lucifer that says I will ascend to God's throne (heaven).

 

[007]

As manu1959 has in his sig line...

... "I'd rather live my life as though there is a God and die to find out there isn't, then to live my life as though there isn't a God, and die to find out there is."

 

[Truthspeaker]

As manu1959 has in his sig line...

... "I'd rather live my life as though there is a God and die to find out there isn't, then to live my life as though there isn't a God, and die to find out there is."

This is true. because if there is really no God and we just cease to exist then no one will be alive to have the last "see I told you so."

I for one do not believe in a literal lake of fire and brimstone where you just burn forever and continue feeling the pain of burning with no end. that doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[John Lemmon]

As manu1959 has in his sig line...

... "I'd rather live my life as though there is a God and die to find out there isn't, then to live my life as though there isn't a God, and die to find out there is."

This is true. because if there is really no God and we just cease to exist then no one will be alive to have the last "see I told you so."

I for one do not believe in a literal lake of fire and brimstone where you just burn forever and continue feeling the pain of burning with no end. that doesn't make any sense to me.

So tru, you don't mind living your whole life as a lie? Man, THAT'S fucked up. Why not live your life as you please (and don't say you are, you're obviously not by your last statement agreeing with the sig line), and then 3 seconds before you die, repent and ask god for forgiveness. Anyways, didn't jesus already die for your sins? Double jeopardy is attached.

 

[Dr Grump]

I reckon if there is a god i'll argue the toss with him...or her....

 

[John Lemmon]

My god has given me a purpose in life, to show those afflicted with religion the error of their ways.

Okay. You can start with a detailed description of how wonderful following YOUR god has made YOUR life. We can certainly eliminate "made me popular and helped me win friends easily" from the list right now.

Actually, my band became so popular that I don't ever have to work again. And I don't believe that a god has ever been proven to exist! So what has YOUR god done for you, except make you extremely crabby?

 

[Intense]

A lot of people believe in a different concept of heaven/hell than their subscribed religion. They just believe the parts they agree with. It seems most people believe that they will be judged according to their actions and hearts; even if their religion might teach them otherwise.

I think this is interesting because it is what makes sense.

There is this side of the Veil, and the other side of the Veil. Let's speak of what We Know, and use Faith, for what We do not know.

I think that You and can agree, that God is not limited by our understanding and expectations, nor should He be. When doing good for goodnesses sake, is a part of Your Nature, When Serving Justice and Truth, in big or little ways brings comfort to you, I perceive it as a sign that God's spirit is working through You. That in Itself is a Gift. The Bible, acts as a Guide, A Very Significant Guide, with Great Depth, and multiple layers of understanding, yet it is still, One of Gods many Tools. It Has Blessing, It Has Curse, It has Sanctuary, It has Pitfalls, With Good Reason. The Perverse still hope to storm Heaven and Conquer, personally, I believe the Closer One Gets, the more profound internal change, Evil doesn't recognize that. The Battle for the Key's, for Dominion, has blinded them to The True Treasure. Unblemished is a good thing. Don't under rate it.

Locke, Madison, Thoreau, King, Gandhi, sought Communion with God Through Conscience.
Locke was a strong Christian, Out Nation has been blessed by his insight and council in many ways.

This Thread is not so much for the purpose of edification, it does in part serve the opposite of what you want to accomplish. You can see evidence of that, right?

 

[Truthspeaker]

As manu1959 has in his sig line...

... "I'd rather live my life as though there is a God and die to find out there isn't, then to live my life as though there isn't a God, and die to find out there is."

This is true. because if there is really no God and we just cease to exist then no one will be alive to have the last "see I told you so."

I for one do not believe in a literal lake of fire and brimstone where you just burn forever and continue feeling the pain of burning with no end. that doesn't make any sense to me.

So tru, you don't mind living your whole life as a lie? Man, THAT'S fucked up. Why not live your life as you please (and don't say you are, you're obviously not by your last statement agreeing with the sig line), and then 3 seconds before you die, repent and ask god for forgiveness. Anyways, didn't jesus already die for your sins? Double jeopardy is attached.

Poor Lemmon. It just escapes you that people would want to live a moral life even if there was no God at all. Some people are good because it's who they are. I do live my life as I choose. There's no one stopping me from doing what I want.
What I want to do is be honorable and kind.

 

[Truthspeaker]

A lot of people believe in a different concept of heaven/hell than their subscribed religion. They just believe the parts they agree with. It seems most people believe that they will be judged according to their actions and hearts; even if their religion might teach them otherwise.

I think this is interesting because it is what makes sense.

There is this side of the Veil, and the other side of the Veil. Let's speak of what We Know, and use Faith, for what We do not know.

I think that You and can agree, that God is not limited by our understanding and expectations, nor should He be. When doing good for goodnesses sake, is a part of Your Nature, When Serving Justice and Truth, in big or little ways brings comfort to you, I perceive it as a sign that God's spirit is working through You. That in Itself is a Gift. The Bible, acts as a Guide, A Very Significant Guide, with Great Depth, and multiple layers of understanding, yet it is still, One of Gods many Tools. It Has Blessing, It Has Curse, It has Sanctuary, It has Pitfalls, With Good Reason. The Perverse still hope to storm Heaven and Conquer, personally, I believe the Closer One Gets, the more profound internal change, Evil doesn't recognize that. The Battle for the Key's, for Dominion, has blinded them to The True Treasure. Unblemished is a good thing. Don't under rate it.

Locke, Madison, Thoreau, King, Gandhi, sought Communion with God Through Conscience.
Locke was a strong Christian, Out Nation has been blessed by his insight and council in many ways.

This Thread is not so much for the purpose of edification, it does in part serve the opposite of what you want to accomplish. You can see evidence of that, right?

certainly. Great points.

 

[RodISHI]

I reckon if there is a god i'll argue the toss with him...or her....

I doubt you'll get that opportunity.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I reckon if there is a god i'll argue the toss with him...or her....

I doubt you'll get that opportunity.

Not necessarily. Ever hear of the story of Jacob who wrestled all night with God Himself?

 

[Intense]

I reckon if there is a god i'll argue the toss with him...or her....

I doubt you'll get that opportunity.

Not necessarily. Ever hear of the story of Jacob who wrestled all night with God Himself?

Ever hear of Jacobs Ladder?

Genesis

28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

28:13 And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I am the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;

28:14 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.

28:15 And, behold, I am with thee, and will keep thee in all places whither thou goest, and will bring thee again into this land; for I will not leave thee, until I have done that which I have spoken to thee of.

 

[ErikViking]

There has been some great input here, I gather that most people that believe also believe that the faith itself isn't necessary for salvation. Although some differ...