Question of hell

[N4mddissent]

But then, I talked to a Jewish scholar once who had a completely different view of Satan. It means adversary, and he used Job as an example demonstrating that satan was a bit like a prosecutor working for god. Job is a fascinating book. You see in it, clear indications that there were some in the faith rejecting the quid pro quo covenant relationship demonstrated under Moses. Those views were that god punishes the wicked and rewards the good. God basically says in Job that he's god and he'll punish and reward whoever he wants. Ecclesiastes also states that the wicked are rewarded and good punished sometimes. Going through the destruction of the temple and being conquered by Babylon and later Rome, it's easy to see how the stage was set for a new interpretation- one in which good is rewarded and evil is punished in some unseeable afterlife.

That's the beauty of Judaism... they say if you ask three rabbis a question, you get six different answers.... hence talmudic study eventually giving rise to the socratic method of study by questioning....

I'm afraid I'm far from a scholar, but I always find these subjects intersting. I've never heard that view of Ecclesiastes. Nor have I ever heard Satan described in the manner you told. That doesn't mean there aren't some who believe that. Obviously things like that vary greatly. It does make sense though that there would be some means of addressing the "bad things happen to good people thing". But I hate to think that G-d is so actively random in his acts.

Frankly, I don't think he's much of a micromanager anymore.

It wasn't so much a view of Ecclesiastes as it's what is stated in Ecclesiastes

Ecc 2:16

For, just like the fool, there is no lasting remembrance of the wise man, (Y) since in the days to come both will be forgotten. How is it that the wise man dies just like the fool? 17 Therefore, I hated life because the work that was done under the sun was distressing to me. For everything is futile and a pursuit of the wind.​

Ecc 3:16

I also observed under the sun: there is wickedness at the place of judgment and there is wickedness at the place of righteousness. (Q) 17 I said to myself, "God will judge the righteous and the wicked, (R) since there is a time for every activity and every work." (S) 18 I said to myself, "This happens concerning people, so that God may test them and they may see for themselves that they are like animals." (T) 19 For the fate of people and the fate of animals is the same. (U) As one dies, so dies the other; they all have the same breath. People have no advantage over animals, for everything is futile. 20 All are going to the same place; all come from dust, and all return to dust. (V) 21 Who knows if the spirit of people rises upward and the spirit of animals goes downward to the earth? 22 I have seen that there is nothing better than for a person to enjoy his activities, (W) because that is his reward. For who can enable him to see what will happen after he dies? (X) [f]​

Ecc 8:14

14 There is a futility that is done on the earth: there are righteous people who get what the actions of the wicked deserve, (P) and there are wicked people who get what the actions of the righteous deserve. (Q) I say that this too is futile. 15 So I commended enjoyment, because there is nothing better for man under the sun except to eat, drink, and enjoy himself, (R) for this will accompany him in his labor during the years of his days that God gives him under the sun.​

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know, I kinda like the Judaic concept of hell, which is Ghenninom. And yes, it's more of a burning trash dump than anything else. What it is, is the place where the sin (bad things you've done) is burned out of your soul so that you are allowed to enter into Heaven and rejoin God again.

It's the Catholics and their bastardization of the concept of hell that is the problem. Hell isn't a place where everyone goes for eternity. Humans have a beginning, and therefore are not eternal, so how can you possibly go to hell for eternity? Lie number one.

Lie number two. The Catholics and those running the church found out that if you scare people into thinking they will be burning in a pit of fire forever (a la Dante), then they will be scared and start attending church. When they are in church and worried about their souls, they will donate cash to stay out of hell, which is why the Catholic church sold indulgences (look it up). Scare people enough, they show up at your place and give you cash.

Lie number three. The Rapture is a myth. God isn't going to come down and scoop up the righteous people. He's going to wink out of existence those who are evil. Read the Torah sometime for that one.

Any other questions?

 

[ErikViking]

.
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He's going to wink out of existence those who are evil.
.
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I think that if you belive in God, that would be the one option? Everything else would be very confusing. At least to me.
The question of who is really evil is also something best left to a God to decide. Perhaps the worst (only?) sin would be to betray our own heart?

 

[John Lemmon]

Hell is where everyone who supports war or guns should go and meet dick cheney.

 

[amrchaos]

For all you people with a strong religous belief, christians or muslims:

If a person lives his whole life as a good, law abaiding and honest person but totally reject the idea of the existens of a God. Or perhaps this person even worship something else. The wrong God.

Would he be sent to hell?

Atheists, skeptics, Non believers--
yo it does not matter!!
They all going to burn and burn forever!!​

 

[amrchaos]

You're asking ErikViking, right?

did i use a question mark in that post? i responded to KK's question.

I love your attempts to be clever.

Do other religions believe in the concept of hell? Uh, yeah Jillan, they do. Whenever you're ready to get educated enlightenment is waiting for you.

You can begin with the not-so-reliable wikipedia: Hell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and work your way out from there.

I can't wait to see your links that show that only Christianity and Islam have a concept of hell....

If you are talking about hell as a place for eternal punishment--yep, only 2.

 

[eagleseven]

Eh, what the hell...

 

[Cecilie1200]

For all you people with a strong religous belief, christians or muslims:

If a person lives his whole life as a good, law abaiding and honest person but totally reject the idea of the existens of a God. Or perhaps this person even worship something else. The wrong God.

Would he be sent to hell?

First of all, people are not "sent" to Hell. They choose to go.

Second, the Bible doesn't say, "For God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son, that whosoever was a good, law-abiding and honest person shall not perish, but have everlasting life." Those things are ancillary to believing on Christ, not the main purpose of the exercise.

 

[Intense]

For all you people with a strong religous belief, christians or muslims:

If a person lives his whole life as a good, law abaiding and honest person but totally reject the idea of the existens of a God. Or perhaps this person even worship something else. The wrong God.

Would he be sent to hell?

Only Vikings.

 

[Intense]

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.



Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.



Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.



Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Intense]

Buddhist Version

Abstract:

In spite of the modern idea that Buddhism is too rational a religion to have a conception of hell, the case is just the opposite. The Buddhists promoted this idea very early. This is not really surprising, since the idea of hell is closely connected with the concept of kamma, action, and its fruit or result. Every living being is what it is by the force of its actions in this or earlier lives: good actions entail rebirth in heaven or as a human, while bad actions have as their result rebirth as an animal, a ghost, or worst of all, in hell. In the Buddhist hell one is thus punished by the evil actions themselves, not by some sort of divine justice. Although life in hell is not eternal in Buddhism, it can still last for an enormous time span until the bad actions have been atoned for and one is reborn to a happier state of existence. Thus hell plays a great part in the Buddhist system of teachings, and it is a favourite topic in the monastic rules as well as in the narrative literature of the Jātakas, the subject of which is the Buddha's earlier lives. Hell is discussed as a topic already in the Kathāvatthu, the first scholarly treatise of Buddhism with a named author, datable between 250 and 100 BC. The discussion in the Kathāvatthu represents what may be seen as a fully developed conception of hell, and thus the Buddhist hell as described by its earliest canonical literature predates the appearance of the idea in most, if not all other religious traditions.

IngentaConnect The Buddhist Hell: An Early Instance of the Idea?

 

[Intense]

HINDU HELL: Because Hinduism is based on the idea of perpetual reincarnation, Hindu hell is merely a stopping point where souls burn off evil before proceeding to the next life. The number of hells varies greatly, with some accounts listing as many as 136 separate underworld realms, each corresponding to a different sin. In these chambers of punishment, the spirit rids itself of bad KARMA (the sum of its evil acts). Tortures in the lower hells, the worst places of agony, include being burned alive, boiling in oil, and being eaten by ravenous birds.

Hindu Hell

 

[Truthspeaker]

For all you people with a strong religous belief, christians or muslims:

If a person lives his whole life as a good, law abaiding and honest person but totally reject the idea of the existens of a God. Or perhaps this person even worship something else. The wrong God.

Would he be sent to hell?

Definitely not. If there is a God He would judge all of us by our hearts and actions, not by what church we belong to. Although the church you choose does have some effect on what actions you take.

 

[Avatar4321]

For all you people with a strong religous belief, christians or muslims:

If a person lives his whole life as a good, law abaiding and honest person but totally reject the idea of the existens of a God. Or perhaps this person even worship something else. The wrong God.

Would he be sent to hell?

Introduce me to this person. We need him/her to be our President.

 

[Intense]

Ezekiel 18:27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

18:28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

18:29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the LORD is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

18:30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

 

[Truthspeaker]

All those quotes from Ezekiel are great and all but the problem is that God was talking to the Israelites at the time through Ezekiel.

There are lots of people who are great people who will never get to read those words. That's why God judges people individually regardless of their church affiliations.

 

[Intense]

All those quotes from Ezekiel are great and all but the problem is that God was talking to the Israelites at the time through Ezekiel.

There are lots of people who are great people who will never get to read those words. That's why God judges people individually regardless of their church affiliations.

I think that God Judges Us Individually because that is how He made Us. Conscience see's past Language and Culture, and outside Influence. Think Holy Spirit.

 

[Truthspeaker]

All those quotes from Ezekiel are great and all but the problem is that God was talking to the Israelites at the time through Ezekiel.

There are lots of people who are great people who will never get to read those words. That's why God judges people individually regardless of their church affiliations.

I think that God Judges Us Individually because that is how He made Us. Conscience see's past Language and Culture, and outside Influence. Think Holy Spirit.

I couldn't agree more. To me it's the only logical explanation.

 

[Intense]

Here is something that would suggest the Old Testament benefits all of Mankind. It's in King Solomons Prayer of dedication of The First Temple.

1 Kings

8:38 prayer and supplication soever be made by any man, or by all thy people Israel, which shall know every man the plague of his own heart, and spread forth his hands toward this house:

8:39 Then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men

8:40 That they may fear thee all the days that they live in the land which thou gavest unto our fathers.

8:41 Moreover concerning a stranger, that is not of thy people Israel, but cometh out of a far country for thy name's sake;

8:42 (For they shall hear of thy great name, and of thy strong hand, and of thy stretched out arm when he shall come and pray toward this house;

8:43 Hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and do according to all that the stranger calleth to thee for: that all people of the earth may know thy name, to fear thee, as do thy people Israel; and that they may know that this house, which I have builded, is called by thy name.

 

[RodISHI]

God does judge the nations.

Genesis 15:14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.


The people are to seek righteous judgments.
Leviticus 19:15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: [but] in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.

1 Samuel 2:10 The adversaries of the LORD shall be broken to pieces; out of heaven shall he thunder upon them: the LORD shall judge the ends of the earth; and he shall give strength unto his king, and exalt the horn of his anointed.

1 Samuel 3:13 For I have told him that I will judge his house for ever for the iniquity which he knoweth; because his sons made themselves vile, and he restrained them not.

The world. Psalms 9:8 And he shall judge the world in righteousness, he shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness.

The individual is judged by the Lord. Ezekiel 33:20 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways

Jesus gave warning.

And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Then He told them,
Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. He judges the spirit.

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.


But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?