Question from a newbie

[NicoleMandel]

Right off the bat lemme just say that I don't have a deep understanding of politics but I recently started reading and watching documentaries about Snowden and I have a couple of questions about politics in regards to our flow of information. Please forgive me if the questions might seem stupid to you.

Firstly, all of our communications and flow of information can be intercepted by the NSA. What I want to know is something that may never happen but it still makes me wonder -- What if a corrupt president is at the helm of the country or even the head of the NSA who has access to all the information about all the Americans. Can they sell this information to other countries or terrorist groups for personal gain? Another way to put this would be: Hypothetically speaking, let's forget about the NSA. Let's say there's a conspiracy in which a group of powerful people in the government devise a method to bug American houses. Now in this hypothesis, they have access to all our conversations and our daily activities and secrets and information. Would they be able to trade all this data and sell/give access to this data to another government of another country? Or to any other powerful person of another country?

Secondly, if they could, how would another country misuse this information about Americans? Let's say someone like China's president (or is it PM?) or the North Korean dictator get access to all our information because of some corrupt politicians/officials... what could they do with that information? Would it even be valuable to them? If so, then how?

I understand that these answers require speculation and because of the highly hypothesized scenarios, this knowledge may be redundant but please play ball with me. I would really like to understand this. Many thanks to anyone who's sweet enough to answer!

 

[Statistikhengst]

Welcome to USMB.

I think you will fit into the conspiracies subforum really well....

 

[Roadrunner]

Welcome to USMB.

I think you will fit into the conspiracies subforum really well....

How do we know he isn't the nefarious RR trying to fool old SarahG?

 

[Roadrunner]

Right off the bat lemme just say that I don't have a deep understanding of politics but I recently started reading and watching documentaries about Snowden and I have a couple of questions about politics in regards to our flow of information. Please forgive me if the questions might seem stupid to you.

Firstly, all of our communications and flow of information can be intercepted by the NSA. What I want to know is something that may never happen but it still makes me wonder -- What if a corrupt president is at the helm of the country or even the head of the NSA who has access to all the information about all the Americans. Can they sell this information to other countries or terrorist groups for personal gain? Another way to put this would be: Hypothetically speaking, let's forget about the NSA. Let's say there's a conspiracy in which a group of powerful people in the government devise a method to bug American houses. Now in this hypothesis, they have access to all our conversations and our daily activities and secrets and information. Would they be able to trade all this data and sell/give access to this data to another government of another country? Or to any other powerful person of another country?

Secondly, if they could, how would another country misuse this information about Americans? Let's say someone like China's president (or is it PM?) or the North Korean dictator get access to all our information because of some corrupt politicians/officials... what could they do with that information? Would it even be valuable to them? If so, then how?

I understand that these answers require speculation and because of the highly hypothesized scenarios, this knowledge may be redundant but please play ball with me. I would really like to understand this. Many thanks to anyone who's sweet enough to answer!

Hi, sure you aren't me?

Have fun here, lots of conspiracies.

 

[Liffy]

That is a great post! I'd like to know all that too

 

[Sonny Clark]

Right off the bat lemme just say that I don't have a deep understanding of politics but I recently started reading and watching documentaries about Snowden and I have a couple of questions about politics in regards to our flow of information. Please forgive me if the questions might seem stupid to you.

Firstly, all of our communications and flow of information can be intercepted by the NSA. What I want to know is something that may never happen but it still makes me wonder -- What if a corrupt president is at the helm of the country or even the head of the NSA who has access to all the information about all the Americans. Can they sell this information to other countries or terrorist groups for personal gain? Another way to put this would be: Hypothetically speaking, let's forget about the NSA. Let's say there's a conspiracy in which a group of powerful people in the government devise a method to bug American houses. Now in this hypothesis, they have access to all our conversations and our daily activities and secrets and information. Would they be able to trade all this data and sell/give access to this data to another government of another country? Or to any other powerful person of another country?

Secondly, if they could, how would another country misuse this information about Americans? Let's say someone like China's president (or is it PM?) or the North Korean dictator get access to all our information because of some corrupt politicians/officials... what could they do with that information? Would it even be valuable to them? If so, then how?

I understand that these answers require speculation and because of the highly hypothesized scenarios, this knowledge may be redundant but please play ball with me. I would really like to understand this. Many thanks to anyone who's sweet enough to answer!

First, we don't know the extent the government has already gone to, in order to gather information on all American citizens. For all we know, the government knows everything about us. I'm sure they know everything about those that they believe are anti-America, cult members, possible terrorists, etc.. And, what they do with that information is anyone's guess. There is NO privacy in America, not even in your own home.

Secondly, what would it benefit a foreign government if they did knew what you ate last night? I doubt a foreign government would be interested in what color sunhat you wore to the pool yesterday. And, I do believe that we have people in our government that would betray us in a heartbeat, no doubt.

Unless you have value, I doubt anyone would be interested in how many times you grocery shop each month.

 

[NicoleMandel]

Secondly, what would it benefit a foreign government if they did knew what you ate last night? I doubt a foreign government would be interested in what color sunhat you wore to the pool yesterday.

Unless you have value, I doubt anyone would be interested in how many times you grocery shop each month.

That's what I want to figure out. Is there ANY way that the information can be used? For instance... let's branch out the conspiracy. Let's say our information is illegally given to some Chinese official in the top levels of their government. They might not have any use for it. But what if they traded that information to someone else in order to get money, info, arms, etc? What if they get our info from us and give it to ISIS or a terrorist group? Is that possible?

What I'm looking for here is speculation and possibilities, however far-fetched they may be. Since I don't know much about these things, I couldn't think of any myself. Which is why I'm hoping someone here uses their imagination and comes up with a hypothetical theory of the possibility of some connection and misuse of said information. It doesn't necessarily have to be an equation of A gives to B and B misuses it. It may very well be A gives to B and B gives to C and it's C who actually misuses it. But in what ways can C misuse it? Any thoughts on this?

 

[Sonny Clark]

Secondly, what would it benefit a foreign government if they did knew what you ate last night? I doubt a foreign government would be interested in what color sunhat you wore to the pool yesterday.

Unless you have value, I doubt anyone would be interested in how many times you grocery shop each month.

That's what I want to figure out. Is there ANY way that the information can be used? For instance... let's branch out the conspiracy. Let's say our information is illegally given to some Chinese official in the top levels of their government. They might not have any use for it. But what if they traded that information to someone else in order to get money, info, arms, etc? What if they get our info from us and give it to ISIS or a terrorist group? Is that possible?

What I'm looking for here is speculation and possibilities, however far-fetched they may be. Since I don't know much about these things, I couldn't think of any myself. Which is why I'm hoping someone here uses their imagination and comes up with a hypothetical theory of the possibility of some connection and misuse of said information. It doesn't necessarily have to be an equation of A gives to B and B misuses it. It may very well be A gives to B and B gives to C and it's C who actually misuses it. Any thoughts on this?

Look, who would want your information? What would the Chinese want that information for? No one wants your information unless you have something to offer them in the way of value. What value do you have? Do you have information that would be of value to any government?

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Welcome to USMB.

I think you will fit into the conspiracies subforum really well....

How do we know he isn't the nefarious RR trying to fool old SarahG?

uh Sarah G never posts in the conspiracy section.

 

[NicoleMandel]

Look, who would want your information? What would the Chinese want that information for? No one wants your information unless you have something to offer them in the way of value. What value do you have? Do you have information that would be of value to any government?

It's not about information about a single American. It's about collective information. You know how these websites collect information about millions of their customers and sell it to these big-ass corporations? I don't exactly know why but probably so that these corporations or companies can determine a pattern of consumer behavior which they can use for advertising purposes or to target certain demographics. I dunno. But what I do know is that information about just me is not valuable to them but information about a million of us? That's the same way I'm looking at this.

And there's no cause to be rude and/or impatient. You don't have to take part in this thread, you know? You may very well choose to ignore my questions. I'll wait for someone else to give me more insight.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Right off the bat lemme just say that I don't have a deep understanding of politics but I recently started reading and watching documentaries about Snowden and I have a couple of questions about politics in regards to our flow of information. Please forgive me if the questions might seem stupid to you.

Firstly, all of our communications and flow of information can be intercepted by the NSA. What I want to know is something that may never happen but it still makes me wonder -- What if a corrupt president is at the helm of the country or even the head of the NSA who has access to all the information about all the Americans. Can they sell this information to other countries or terrorist groups for personal gain? Another way to put this would be: Hypothetically speaking, let's forget about the NSA. Let's say there's a conspiracy in which a group of powerful people in the government devise a method to bug American houses. Now in this hypothesis, they have access to all our conversations and our daily activities and secrets and information. Would they be able to trade all this data and sell/give access to this data to another government of another country? Or to any other powerful person of another country?

Secondly, if they could, how would another country misuse this information about Americans? Let's say someone like China's president (or is it PM?) or the North Korean dictator get access to all our information because of some corrupt politicians/officials... what could they do with that information? Would it even be valuable to them? If so, then how?

I understand that these answers require speculation and because of the highly hypothesized scenarios, this knowledge may be redundant but please play ball with me. I would really like to understand this. Many thanks to anyone who's sweet enough to answer!

First, we don't know the extent the government has already gone to, in order to gather information on all American citizens. For all we know, the government knows everything about us. I'm sure they know everything about those that they believe are anti-America, cult members, possible terrorists, etc.. And, what they do with that information is anyone's guess. There is NO privacy in America, not even in your own home.

Secondly, what would it benefit a foreign government if they did knew what you ate last night? I doubt a foreign government would be interested in what color sunhat you wore to the pool yesterday. And, I do believe that we have people in our government that would betray us in a heartbeat, no doubt.

Unless you have value, I doubt anyone would be interested in how many times you grocery shop each month.

I did not know how to answer the OP but yeah I think that sums it up the best and is the best answer.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

Look, who would want your information? What would the Chinese want that information for? No one wants your information unless you have something to offer them in the way of value. What value do you have? Do you have information that would be of value to any government?

It's not about information about a single American. It's about the collective information. You know how these websites collect information about millions of their customers and sell it to these big-ass corporations? I don't exactly know why but probably so that these corporations or companies can determine a pattern of consumer behavior which they can use for advertising purposes or to target certain demographics. I dunno. But what I do know is that information about just me is not valuable to them but information about a million of us? That's the same way I'm looking at this.

And there's no cause to be rude and/or impatient. You don't have to take part in this thread, you know? You may very well choose to ignore my questions. I'll wait for someone else to give me more insight.

He wasnt being rude.He was just explaining as best as he could the answers to you.I dont know how you interpreted it as being rude.Thats pretty much how i would have said and explained it.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Look, who would want your information? What would the Chinese want that information for? No one wants your information unless you have something to offer them in the way of value. What value do you have? Do you have information that would be of value to any government?

It's not about information about a single American. It's about collective information. You know how these websites collect information about millions of their customers and sell it to these big-ass corporations? I don't exactly know why but probably so that these corporations or companies can determine a pattern of consumer behavior which they can use for advertising purposes or to target certain demographics. I dunno. But what I do know is that information about just me is not valuable to them but information about a million of us? That's the same way I'm looking at this.

And there's no cause to be rude and/or impatient. You don't have to take part in this thread, you know? You may very well choose to ignore my questions. I'll wait for someone else to give me more insight.

Oh, so you consider simple questions to be rude? Hell, you pose the question and I answered you the best I could. I wasn't being rude. What do you want me to say? FYI - Your information is collected every single day of the week. It is sold to telemarketers that call you trying to sell you shit. They watch to see what your buying habits are every time you use a credit card. Web sites place cookies on your computer to track your activity. That doesn't mean that the Chinese government wants your information, nor does it mean the U.S. Government wants your information.

 

[NicoleMandel]

Oh, so you consider simple questions to be rude?

No but your tone was and still is rude and/or condescending. Besides, you answered back with the same thing you already said before. Only with more questions

That doesn't mean that the Chinese government wants your information, nor does it mean the U.S. Government wants your information.

But it's common knowledge that the U.S. Government DOES want our information and IS collecting it every second so I don't know what you're talking about when you say they don't want it. I think that's pretty obvious and the whole premise of this discussion is based on that. What it does with that information is something that I was wondering about.

It's clear to me that you're not interested in this topic because I clearly asked for speculation and hypothesis whereas you kept asking me to determine why anyone would want my information unless I have something of value to give them. That frame of thought is too obvious to talk about and I believe you misunderstood the intent of this entire discussion. I would appreciate if we don't get into silly arguments which take up space and amount to nothing. Thanks for your replies. I'll wait for someone else to maybe share their thoughts on this subject.

 

[NicoleMandel]

He wasnt being rude.He was just explaining as best as he could the answers to you.I dont know how you interpreted it as being rude.Thats pretty much how i would have said and explained it.

Rude, confrontational, irritated, impatient, whatever. Yes, he is in regards to his tone. But it's nothing personal. He can very well talk in whichever manner he pleases just as I can point out my perception of his tone. The point is, I don't want this to turn into some silly argument over 'I'm right, you're wrong' which is why I told him that he needn't take part in this discussion especially since he's already answered to the best of his knowledge. But again, what he does is his choice as it should be. That's my perception anyway. I know that whenever a newbie comes to any internet forum and disagrees or questions someone, his forum buddies come along and start taking sides. This isn't my first online rodeo. And even though it's cute, it's not really necessary here. And in case something is being lost in translation, let me be more clear since I have a feeling that nothing else is going to come out of this thread anyway --

"Oh, so you consider simple questions to be rude? What do you want me to say?" - If you consider this a polite way of talking then we come from different worlds. It's like he's doing me a favor by replying back. Like I dragged him out of some important work and begged him to share his wisdom with me. Besides, all he did was state and re-instate one thing - no one wants my information. That was never what this thread was about. Let me be even more clear --

Your information is collected every single day of the week. It is sold to telemarketers that call you trying to sell you shit. They watch to see what your buying habits are every time you use a credit card. Web sites place cookies on your computer to track your activity. That doesn't mean that the Chinese government wants your information, nor does it mean the U.S. Government wants your information.

What does this tell you? My question was what can the government do with the information it collects but the way he put it is: your info is collected every day. It is sold to telemarketers for whatever purpose, cookies are placed on your computer for whatever purpose, but that doesn't mean the government wants your information. Get it? He changed the whole discussion by telling me that just because websites and telemarketers collect my information doesn't mean the government is also interested in it. Is this what I asked? I used the example of websites collecting my information just to show the difference between individual and collective information and he turned it into A doesn't equal B. If you think this constitutes as the best answer to what I asked then clearly I'm in the wrong place. I have a habit of calling a spade a spade and sometimes it can piss people off, as I'm sure it will this time again. But that's okay.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

The only logical reason I can think of for our government to want info on all of us is so they'd be able to classify us into groups. Patriot Constitutionalist types that could possibly be a threat to a planned government action that defies the document,to those who are likely to go along with whatever the government chooses to do.
If thats the case and they are gathering info,which it certainly appears they are,I would expect something is coming.
Add this to the fact the government is stockpiling ammo and weapons and arming every alphabet agency out there coupled with the apparent lack of concern with our massive debt....?
I'll just say it doesnt give me the warm fuzzies.

 

[washamericom]

Right off the bat lemme just say that I don't have a deep understanding of politics but I recently started reading and watching documentaries about Snowden and I have a couple of questions about politics in regards to our flow of information. Please forgive me if the questions might seem stupid to you.

Firstly, all of our communications and flow of information can be intercepted by the NSA. What I want to know is something that may never happen but it still makes me wonder -- What if a corrupt president is at the helm of the country or even the head of the NSA who has access to all the information about all the Americans. Can they sell this information to other countries or terrorist groups for personal gain? Another way to put this would be: Hypothetically speaking, let's forget about the NSA. Let's say there's a conspiracy in which a group of powerful people in the government devise a method to bug American houses. Now in this hypothesis, they have access to all our conversations and our daily activities and secrets and information. Would they be able to trade all this data and sell/give access to this data to another government of another country? Or to any other powerful person of another country?

Secondly, if they could, how would another country misuse this information about Americans? Let's say someone like China's president (or is it PM?) or the North Korean dictator get access to all our information because of some corrupt politicians/officials... what could they do with that information? Would it even be valuable to them? If so, then how?

I understand that these answers require speculation and because of the highly hypothesized scenarios, this knowledge may be redundant but please play ball with me. I would really like to understand this. Many thanks to anyone who's sweet enough to answer!

i like you already. there are no stupid questions, only stupid people who say there are. what you have describe is privacy and the constitution. it's a big subject. i would also suggest that the internet is a major component. emails are that new wild west, as we have seen. i'm glad there are still wild areas of humanity. what will be the next big thing like the advent of the internet. drones will play a starring role in this brave new world of information, gathering, maintaining, protecting. my hope is that at least one country (US) will stay preserved the wholesome awe and beauty of personal privacy, which increasingly, is becoming a global luxury imho.

welcome to the forum, everyone is a newbie in this arena.

 

[shadow355]

Right off the bat lemme just say that I don't have a deep understanding of politics but I recently started reading and watching documentaries about Snowden and I have a couple of questions about politics in regards to our flow of information. Please forgive me if the questions might seem stupid to you.

---------------- 1

Firstly, all of our communications and flow of information can be intercepted by the NSA. What I want to know is something that may never happen but it still makes me wonder -- What if a corrupt president is at the helm of the country or even the head of the NSA who has access to all the information about all the Americans. Can they sell this information to other countries or terrorist groups for personal gain? Another way to put this would be: Hypothetically speaking, let's forget about the NSA. Let's say there's a conspiracy in which a group of powerful people in the government devise a method to bug American houses. Now in this hypothesis, they have access to all our conversations and our daily activities and secrets and information. Would they be able to trade all this data and sell/give access to this data to another government of another country? Or to any other powerful person of another country?

Secondly, if they could, how would another country misuse this information about Americans? Let's say someone like China's president (or is it PM?) or the North Korean dictator get access to all our information because of some corrupt politicians/officials... what could they do with that information? Would it even be valuable to them? If so, then how?

I understand that these answers require speculation and because of the highly hypothesized scenarios, this knowledge may be redundant but please play ball with me. I would really like to understand this. Many thanks to anyone who's sweet enough to answer!

NSA...FBI who ever has to have a warrant to listen into phone conversations. You get a warrant, in most circumstances, by filing an affidavit ( Sworn Statement ).

Anyone can perform a surveillance.....video or audio. But again....in most circumstances, it is not admissible without a warrant. One exception... would be if you were in public and were video, and/or audio recorded. If I am correct, the Supreme Court ruled that no one has a reasonable expectation of privacy in public (places).....only in their homes. I am no lawyer, but I believe I read that some years ago.

Paranoia. The US Government and the FBI is not going to waste money, nor manpower on you to perform a surveillance if it is not to their benefit....and for good reason. With the hundreds...if not thousands of tips for bad guys they receive....plus ongoing investigations ; Suzy Homemaker is not on the top of their surveillance lists. The FBI has better thing to do, and people to investigate...than Joe and Jane Blow citizen. Locking up someone, and getting monies back in from defendant in criminal penalties is more important than listening to Jane and Suzy talk about a cake recipe.


------------------------ 2

Other countries misusing information about Americans. What kind of information could they misuse? Birthdays? Date of Births? Favorite clothing store?

Financial and or credit card information from purchases abroad, or credit card information you give to a foreign national abroad to book a room, flight...ect.

Common sense in safeguarding information should save you troubles. For men...the women dressed sexy and provocative and does her best to be friendly and get information out of you. For women...just the opposite. The handsome guy at the coffee shop or bar...whos only purpose is to get accurate and reliable information. What you do, where you work, what is your job specialty, corporate information, travel plans...ect - canal be useful to a competitor or foreign Government. You can give them false information, or no information at all. But remember....not giving information...and giving information even, has gotten people killed. Especially if the enemy agent is pressing, and you have seen them a number of times - you know what they look like, and it must die with you.

China, Japan, Taiwan and a few other places in that area.....are experts at corporate / industrial espionage ; and do it better than any other nation. To include spying, tradecraft and surveillance. Russia is bragged about, but cannot hold a candle to these Asian folks. But there has to be a benefit.....and for some countries = it has to be information that will continue to be forthcoming and accurate. A simple thread of info, or a small bit of data is not what they are looking for, they want information that will be long term. SOMETHING WORTH you going to prison for if you got caught passing the info. And if you tick them off, they tip the US Govt that you are a spy, or committing treason...and you go to prison.

Don't go for the hype.

Ponder the possibilities and percentage of "This and that occurring" , and/or "This person done that....this person is doing that."

The world is filled with the Main Stream Media - so some news is printed because a Government entity, corporation, and others...pay for it to be there. So it may not be accurate...or only partially accurate.

Use good common sense - deduce - factor the hypothesis and how possible it is.

Enjoy a cold beer and pretzels.

Shadow 355

 

[washamericom]

this is weird: Right Now - Hawaii's anti-'birther' bill becomes law

The new law, Act 100, allows state agencies a limited exemption from Freedom of Information requirements when duplicative requests for information are made by the same person. Although the law covers all agencies, the measure targets people who repeatedly request a copy of Obama's Hawai'i birth certificate.

https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/rnr/5301155131.html