Question For War and Artillery Buffs

[IGetItAlready]

Okay, so I've set the second world war on a shelf for a while and have been digging all things WWI.
I've been pretty amazed with some of the WWI era artillery diagrams I've come across which got me wondering; When did man make the transition from solid projectile (ie cannon balls and smaller multiple projectile loads) to shrapnel and fused projectiles?

I've spent quite a bit of time researching this topic and can find nothing as far as a where and when on what would appear to have been a major breakthrough in artillery effectiveness.

Thanks in advance.

 

[IGetItAlready]

Can someone move this to Military or History please?
Sorry for my mistake.

 

[del]

Henry Shrapnel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Grapeshot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

grapeshot dates from mid 18th c as does cannister

 

[IGetItAlready]

Henry Shrapnel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Grapeshot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

grapeshot dates from mid 18th c as does cannister

It took until 1803 for the British artillery to adopt the shrapnel shell (as "spherical case"), albeit with great enthusiasm when it did. Henry Shrapnel was promoted to Major in the same year. The first recorded use of shrapnel by the British was in 1804 against the Dutch at Fort Amsterdam in Surinam.[1] The Duke of Wellington's armies used it from 1808 in the Peninsular War and at the Battle of Waterloo, and he wrote admiringly of its effectiveness.

Very cool!
Thanks!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Okay, so I've set the second world war on a shelf for a while and have been digging all things WWI.
I've been pretty amazed with some of the WWI era artillery diagrams I've come across which got me wondering; When did man make the transition from solid projectile (ie cannon balls and smaller multiple projectile loads) to shrapnel and fused projectiles?

I've spent quite a bit of time researching this topic and can find nothing as far as a where and when on what would appear to have been a major breakthrough in artillery effectiveness.

Thanks in advance.

I think you have the timeline wrong.

The earliest artillery devices were essentially rocket powered arrows fired from a large launcher. It wasn't very hard for the Chinese to go from that to two stage rockets that had an explosive charge that would burst about the same time it landed. In other words, the two technologies developed about the same time. When cannons were finally developed solid shot, canister rounds, and even explosive shells already existed.

 

[IGetItAlready]

Okay, so I've set the second world war on a shelf for a while and have been digging all things WWI.
I've been pretty amazed with some of the WWI era artillery diagrams I've come across which got me wondering; When did man make the transition from solid projectile (ie cannon balls and smaller multiple projectile loads) to shrapnel and fused projectiles?

I've spent quite a bit of time researching this topic and can find nothing as far as a where and when on what would appear to have been a major breakthrough in artillery effectiveness.

Thanks in advance.

I think you have the timeline wrong.

The earliest artillery devices were essentially rocket powered arrows fired from a large launcher. It wasn't very hard for the Chinese to go from that to two stage rockets that had an explosive charge that would burst about the same time it landed. In other words, the two technologies developed about the same time. When cannons were finally developed solid shot, canister rounds, and even explosive shells already existed.

No, I was wondering when ground artillery first moved beyond straight lining solid balls of lead across a battlefield and started lobbing shells with the ability to detonate and fragment either upon or just prior to impact.
Based on the links Del provided, it appears ground forces first implemented the use of Shrapnell's shell in 1803 and its first recorded land use was in 1804.
Just needed to take a different approach.
Thanks!

 

[M14 Shooter]

Okay, so I've set the second world war on a shelf for a while and have been digging all things WWI.
I've been pretty amazed with some of the WWI era artillery diagrams I've come across which got me wondering; When did man make the transition from solid projectile (ie cannon balls and smaller multiple projectile loads) to shrapnel and fused projectiles?

I've spent quite a bit of time researching this topic and can find nothing as far as a where and when on what would appear to have been a major breakthrough in artillery effectiveness.

Thanks in advance.

Pre-US civil war.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Okay, so I've set the second world war on a shelf for a while and have been digging all things WWI.
I've been pretty amazed with some of the WWI era artillery diagrams I've come across which got me wondering; When did man make the transition from solid projectile (ie cannon balls and smaller multiple projectile loads) to shrapnel and fused projectiles?

I've spent quite a bit of time researching this topic and can find nothing as far as a where and when on what would appear to have been a major breakthrough in artillery effectiveness.

Thanks in advance.

I think you have the timeline wrong.

The earliest artillery devices were essentially rocket powered arrows fired from a large launcher. It wasn't very hard for the Chinese to go from that to two stage rockets that had an explosive charge that would burst about the same time it landed. In other words, the two technologies developed about the same time. When cannons were finally developed solid shot, canister rounds, and even explosive shells already existed.

No, I was wondering when ground artillery first moved beyond straight lining solid balls of lead across a battlefield and started lobbing shells with the ability to detonate and fragment either upon or just prior to impact.
Based on the links Del provided, it appears ground forces first implemented the use of Shrapnell's shell in 1803 and its first recorded land use was in 1804.
Just needed to take a different approach.
Thanks!

The first shells that were designed to explode above a group of enemy troops were launched from ballistas, where do you think we get the word ballistics? When cannons were built it was simply a matter of adapting the technology.

 

[IGetItAlready]

I think you have the timeline wrong.

The earliest artillery devices were essentially rocket powered arrows fired from a large launcher. It wasn't very hard for the Chinese to go from that to two stage rockets that had an explosive charge that would burst about the same time it landed. In other words, the two technologies developed about the same time. When cannons were finally developed solid shot, canister rounds, and even explosive shells already existed.

No, I was wondering when ground artillery first moved beyond straight lining solid balls of lead across a battlefield and started lobbing shells with the ability to detonate and fragment either upon or just prior to impact.
Based on the links Del provided, it appears ground forces first implemented the use of Shrapnell's shell in 1803 and its first recorded land use was in 1804.
Just needed to take a different approach.
Thanks!

The first shells that were designed to explode above a group of enemy troops were launched from ballistas, where do you think we get the word ballistics? When cannons were built it was simply a matter of adapting the technology.

Okay, now that's what I'm talking about. I guess my point would be that the shells from the early 1900s seem to me to be ridiculously advanced for the time, which would make a little more sense if we're talking about first being used in a weapons system dating back to 400 bc.

I'm digging now but do you have a link?

 

[martybegan]

No, I was wondering when ground artillery first moved beyond straight lining solid balls of lead across a battlefield and started lobbing shells with the ability to detonate and fragment either upon or just prior to impact.
Based on the links Del provided, it appears ground forces first implemented the use of Shrapnell's shell in 1803 and its first recorded land use was in 1804.
Just needed to take a different approach.
Thanks!

The first shells that were designed to explode above a group of enemy troops were launched from ballistas, where do you think we get the word ballistics? When cannons were built it was simply a matter of adapting the technology.

Okay, now that's what I'm talking about. I guess my point would be that the shells from the early 1900s seem to me to be ridiculously advanced for the time, which would make a little more sense if we're talking about first being used in a weapons system dating back to 400 bc.

I'm digging now but do you have a link?

Try looking up artillery fuses, which were the technological barrier that needed to be crossed before RELIABLE artillery shells could be made. People tried making hollow shells filled with explosives since cannons were invented, however the problem was always the fuse.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Mortars, firing explosive shells, have been around since the 18th century.

 

[IGetItAlready]

The first shells that were designed to explode above a group of enemy troops were launched from ballistas, where do you think we get the word ballistics? When cannons were built it was simply a matter of adapting the technology.

Okay, now that's what I'm talking about. I guess my point would be that the shells from the early 1900s seem to me to be ridiculously advanced for the time, which would make a little more sense if we're talking about first being used in a weapons system dating back to 400 bc.

I'm digging now but do you have a link?

Try looking up artillery fuses, which were the technological barrier that needed to be crossed before RELIABLE artillery shells could be made. People tried making hollow shells filled with explosives since cannons were invented, however the problem was always the fuse.

Found some killer info on artillery fuses.
Thanks a lot!

 

[IGetItAlready]

Hella good information searching "explosive mortar shells" too.
What the hell have I been thinking in searching this topic in the past?

Thanks for the help all.