Question for teachers

[Dr.Traveler]

At the college level I'm seeing a lot of topics deal with redesigns to accommodate increased class sizes, a lot of lines are being closed (essentially empty positions are eliminated rather than actively replaced), and other attrition methods are in play. I've also seen a movement towards program closures and consolidation, a move that voids tenure, as a way to deal with rising costs.

I saw a big restructure of administrative positions all over the nation about 2 years back when the nations troubles first started. A lot of folks with titles of "Associate" Administrator found themselves tossed out. However now the classroom is the only place left to cut. Everything else is cut to the bone. People hate administrators, but with all the Federal and State regulations that an educational institution has to deal with there's a certain number of Administrators you HAVE to have if you're going to stay open. A lot places in Higher Ed are at that bare minimum point.

Then there's also the fact that if you're at a State institution a lot of the secretarial positions are Civil Service. Civil servants are even harder to fire than a tenured Professor. Again, you have to have a certain number of secretaries or nothing gets done administratively, but if you have an excess, good luck eliminating them.

 

[bill5]

sorry, where i'm from marching band was it. it was band - and yes, it was an expensive program. but not really any more so than say the football or wrestling teams. where i'm from the community supported the band, bought the uniforms, paid for the equipment, and raised money for the travel. this did not come out of the school budget.

that aside - it's anecdotal but arts programs are first on the chopping block when it comes to lay offs. makes the most sense. nobody does standardized tests in music. and if you have to choose between laying off a math or a music teacher you always keep the math teacher.

and i apologize if i read you wrong, but it seemed to me that you were diminishing the value of the arts in general.

Sorry but despite stating things in a rational, logical and oh btw accurate way, you are wrong and the person you addressed is right, because they repeatedly drove it home with the f-word. Try again.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Since most of the money for education in the past couple decades has gone to increase the number of administrators and the size of the bureaucracy, I'd say it's time to start firing the bureaucrats.

 

[Samson]

you have to be kidding me.

arts programs are among the first to get cut - and if you don't see value in educating students in the arts i suggest you go back to your cave and give it some more thought.

Really?

Number one, I suggest you try to focus: I said Marching Band.

Since when was Marching Band elevated to a fucking "art?"

Two: before you begin making moronically hyperbolic comments, at least support them with some research: What evidence is there that most teachers being laid off are art teachers?

Three: Marching Band is an extremely fucking expensive program. I'm comparing the lay-off of all teachers with the maintenance of expensive public programs that have tenuous value compared to the mission of public schools, which seem to have failed you since I need to point out the obvious contrast.

sorry, where i'm from marching band was it. it was band - and yes, it was an expensive program. but not really any more so than say the football or wrestling teams. where i'm from the community supported the band, bought the uniforms, paid for the equipment, and raised money for the travel. this did not come out of the school budget.

that aside - it's anecdotal but arts programs are first on the chopping block when it comes to lay offs. makes the most sense. nobody does standardized tests in music. and if you have to choose between laying off a math or a music teacher you always keep the math teacher.

Huh?

On the one hand you say that the "community supported the band."

On the other hand you claim that given the choice, the community lays off the music teacher first.

Make up you mind.

My contention is that if the community will raise money for the band, or football, or whatever EXTRA-curricular activity (we all pay for the transportation, field maintenance, storage, operational expenses...not insignificant costs), why are they laying off anyone, especially teachers?

 

[Samson]

sorry, where i'm from marching band was it. it was band - and yes, it was an expensive program. but not really any more so than say the football or wrestling teams. where i'm from the community supported the band, bought the uniforms, paid for the equipment, and raised money for the travel. this did not come out of the school budget.

that aside - it's anecdotal but arts programs are first on the chopping block when it comes to lay offs. makes the most sense. nobody does standardized tests in music. and if you have to choose between laying off a math or a music teacher you always keep the math teacher.

and i apologize if i read you wrong, but it seemed to me that you were diminishing the value of the arts in general.

Sorry but despite stating things in a rational, logical and oh btw accurate way, you are wrong and the person you addressed is right, because they repeatedly drove it home with the f-word. Try again.

You wouldn't know logical or accurate if it bit you on your fuck'n ass.

 

[bill5]

lol - the pot/kettle thing, what a surprise. I'm also impressed by your stellar grammar.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Since most of the money for education in the past couple decades has gone to increase the number of administrators and the size of the bureaucracy, I'd say it's time to start firing the bureaucrats.

Most folks support that. The only problem is that thanks to the sheer amount of red tape attached to the Federal and State money, you have to have a certain level of administration in order to function. We have administrative positions to deal with student organizations, course redesign, continuing education, dual enrollment, etc. The number of non-teaching positions at a University these days would drive a person insane, but nearly every last one of them is indispensable thanks to some little known Federal or State regulation. Some of that you can push off to faculty as committee work, but a great deal of it requires a full time person tracking stats, filing forms, and attending hearings and inquiries.

The last 2 years have seen most higher education institutions I know cut Administrative positions down the bare bones. Until some of the regulations are eased, those positions are probably as tight as they can be. Most Universities are down to the very bare bones on the Physical Plant and other support staff for the buildings, so what's left is the classroom and programs, which is what you're seeing happen now.