Question for proponents of the Public Option Plan/Single Payer Plan.

[Immanuel]

Democrats have been saying that they are all for the elimination of private health insurance. Don't believe me, watch the videos in this thread:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...lead-to-single-payer-government-run-care.html

How many jobs will that costs? I am not just talking about the CEOs and upper management jobs but how many jobs of people like you and me who work hard every day just to put dinner on the table will be lost. From the Janitor to middle management and don't forget the little guys, the independent agents who work for you to get you coverage. Those CEO's employ you; your brothers, sisters, parents, children, friends.

Where are those people going to go when the private health insurer disappears?

How many hundreds of thousands of jobs (Democrat jobs) are going to be lost? What industry do you work in?

Is your job safe?

edit: Oh and let me ask you this, aren't you glad Barney Frank and Barack Obama are working so hard to eliminate those jobs?

Immie

 

[toomuchtime_]

Democrats have been saying that they are all for the elimination of private health insurance. Don't believe me, watch the videos in this thread:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...lead-to-single-payer-government-run-care.html

How many jobs will that costs? I am not just talking about the CEOs and upper management jobs but how many jobs of people like you and me who work hard every day just to put dinner on the table will be lost. From the Janitor to middle management and don't forget the little guys, the independent agents who work for you to get you coverage. Those CEO's employ you; your brothers, sisters, parents, children, friends.

Where are those people going to go when the private health insurer disappears?

How many hundreds of thousands of jobs (Democrat jobs) are going to be lost? What industry do you work in?

Is your job safe?

edit: Oh and let me ask you this, aren't you glad Barney Frank and Barack Obama are working so hard to eliminate those jobs?

Immie

Well, a government run plan would have to hire people, too, so it's not clear to me how many jobs net would be lost or gained. What we do know is that if private insurance were replaced by government run insurance similar to Canada's system, massive amounts of capital that insurance companies now invest in our private sector economy would be diverted to buy Treasuries, as Medicare and SS do with their reserve funds, and to pay for the federal government's deficits. I've got to think that withdrawing this much capital from private investment would have a negative effect on economic growth and job creation.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Come on, Immanuel, those folks will need to find real jobs, just like the folks who are skimping pay medical bills of their loveds ones because the health insurance companies only insure the healthy.

Too darn bad.

 

[Zona]

I dont think the insurance companies are making enough money. Look, you have to understand, they make money when people pay, then get denied and dropped when they get sick.

Leave them alone!

 

[toomuchtime_]

I dont think the insurance companies are making enough money. Look, you have to understand, they make money when people pay, then get denied and dropped when they get sick.

Leave them alone!

That might well be how Medicare tries to hold costs down since, according to the AMA, Medicare denies more claims than any private insurance company.

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/368/reportcard.pdf

Scroll down to metric 12.

Is this how the public plan Obama and Pelosi want would try to hold down costs, too? By denying more claims than any private insurance company?

 

[driveby]

This is how they'll create the jobs the stimulus package was supposed to create.........

 

[veritas]

That's the only real question nobody has asked [except for me]. The truth is, the skills required are easily skills that would transfer to any clerical/office/administration sort of work. These are the job holders that the insurance companies shed first, and have already and they've started to stop insuring them and/or raising their rates for health insurance. There is only alarm because this is legislatively driven, if it were innovation driven then there would be no outcry whatsoever. Typesetters had to just dry up and go away with the advent of desktop publishing, steel workers just had to adjust and on and on......ad nauseum. Nothing is constant except for change itself. That's life. But these people are not highly skilled , nor do their skills relegate them to some obscure and small type of employment pool. Maybe they should get some education and be doctors or nurses. That's what the right says about the American auto industry......but they actually produce stuff.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Interesting arguments, the one I like the most is what will happen to all the people employed by insurance companies. I wonder, is this a concern for those who want to shrink government? Do they ask what will the cop, fireman, clerk, prosecutor, child welfare worker, teacher, social worker, etc. do?
By the way, we know what each of these government workers does, and they do not answer their phone and seek to find away to deny you their services.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Interesting arguments, the one I like the most is what will happen to all the people employed by insurance companies. I wonder, is this a concern for those who want to shrink government? Do they ask what will the cop, fireman, clerk, prosecutor, child welfare worker, teacher, social worker, etc. do?
By the way, we know what each of these government workers does, and they do not answer their phone and seek to find away to deny you their services.

According to the AMA, the government workers at Medicare pick up their phones to deny your claims more often than workers at private insurance companies do.


http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/368/reportcard.pdf

Since proponents of a public option argue it would be just like Medicare, does that mean that the public plan would also deny more claims than private insurance plans do?

 

[Immanuel]

Come on, Immanuel, those folks will need to find real jobs, just like the folks who are skimping pay medical bills of their loveds ones because the health insurance companies only insure the healthy.

Too darn bad.

That's the only real question nobody has asked [except for me]. The truth is, the skills required are easily skills that would transfer to any clerical/office/administration sort of work. These are the job holders that the insurance companies shed first, and have already and they've started to stop insuring them and/or raising their rates for health insurance. There is only alarm because this is legislatively driven, if it were innovation driven then there would be no outcry whatsoever. Typesetters had to just dry up and go away with the advent of desktop publishing, steel workers just had to adjust and on and on......ad nauseum. Nothing is constant except for change itself. That's life. But these people are not highly skilled , nor do their skills relegate them to some obscure and small type of employment pool. Maybe they should get some education and be doctors or nurses. That's what the right says about the American auto industry......but they actually produce stuff.

My question to the both of you, is how many "real jobs" do you think are out there?

Nationwide we are at 10% unemployment and rising... and of course, I blame President Obama for that... JUST KIDDING!, but jobs, real jobs are scarce these days. I'm worried about my job. The economy is struggling (part of the cycle, but it is still struggling) and the business I work in is being affected just like everything else.

Do you think adding that many job seekers to the unemployment lines will help. I tell you, I hope to God, I don't have to start competing for a job in the near future.

Immie

 

[PeterS]

Democrats have been saying that they are all for the elimination of private health insurance. Don't believe me, watch the videos in this thread:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...lead-to-single-payer-government-run-care.html

edit: Oh and let me ask you this, aren't you glad Barney Frank and Barack Obama are working so hard to eliminate those jobs?

Immie

Fine with me. I have no desire to protect an industry whose costs double every eight years. And fewer jobs means lower prices right?

Sounds better all the time...

 

[PeterS]

Come on, Immanuel, those folks will need to find real jobs, just like the folks who are skimping pay medical bills of their loveds ones because the health insurance companies only insure the healthy.

Too darn bad.

That's the only real question nobody has asked [except for me]. The truth is, the skills required are easily skills that would transfer to any clerical/office/administration sort of work. These are the job holders that the insurance companies shed first, and have already and they've started to stop insuring them and/or raising their rates for health insurance. There is only alarm because this is legislatively driven, if it were innovation driven then there would be no outcry whatsoever. Typesetters had to just dry up and go away with the advent of desktop publishing, steel workers just had to adjust and on and on......ad nauseum. Nothing is constant except for change itself. That's life. But these people are not highly skilled , nor do their skills relegate them to some obscure and small type of employment pool. Maybe they should get some education and be doctors or nurses. That's what the right says about the American auto industry......but they actually produce stuff.

My question to the both of you, is how many "real jobs" do you think are out there?

Nationwide we are at 10% unemployment and rising... and of course, I blame President Obama for that... JUST KIDDING!, but jobs, real jobs are scarce these days. I'm worried about my job. The economy is struggling (part of the cycle, but it is still struggling) and the business I work in is being affected just like everything else.

Do you think adding that many job seekers to the unemployment lines will help. I tell you, I hope to God, I don't have to start competing for a job in the near future.

Immie

You are not talking about something that will occur over night and whether a business survives will depend on how well they are managed. The post office has not eliminated UPS or any other courier even though one is nonprofit and the others for profit. So just why are you assuming that the insurance industry cannot compete with a public option? Businesses that give better service at a competitive price will survive. Those that don't, won't, and I will shed nary a tear to see them go...

 

[Big Black Dog]

OK, folks. Here's a question for you. Let's say for the sake of conversation the government ends up running the insurance companies out of business with the public option they are going to be offering up if it passes Congress. The first thing you will notice is that there are indeed a lot of people out of work - everybody from CEO's to the guys that clean the insurance company offices and mow their grass. The next thing you will notice is now the insurance companies are sitting on very large cash reserves because they are no longer obligated to pay claims. They are out of business and so their responsibility to pay any medical claims is also gone. I suppose the large cash reserves the insurance companies have would be split up among the share holders. You don't honestly think the government is going to get all of this "unobligated" money from the insurance companies do you? If passed, all the public option thing will do in the long run is make a select group of people very very much wealthier than they already are.

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Look here is the thing........You have THREE options for health care. Get it through your employer. Get it by buying it YOURSELF from an ins company(not possible for most people since it cost's over $1,000 dollars(more than a house payment for many) or go without and hope like HELL you or a family member NEVER gets sick. Now here's the REALLY bad thing. Let's say you get REALLY sick and lose your job because you can't work......Guess what.......Your ins is GONE when you need it MOST. I guess you could get COBRA for a few months but there is NO WAY you could afford it cause hey you are OUT OF A JOB!

 

[Cold Fusion38]

So you go into HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of $$$s in debt or you DIE!!! Those are the options you are left with.

 

[PeterS]

OK, folks. Here's a question for you. Let's say for the sake of conversation the government ends up running the insurance companies out of business with the public option they are going to be offering up if it passes Congress. The first thing you will notice is that there are indeed a lot of people out of work - everybody from CEO's to the guys that clean the insurance company offices and mow their grass. The next thing you will notice is now the insurance companies are sitting on very large cash reserves because they are no longer obligated to pay claims. They are out of business and so their responsibility to pay any medical claims is also gone. I suppose the large cash reserves the insurance companies have would be split up among the share holders. You don't honestly think the government is going to get all of this "unobligated" money from the insurance companies do you? If passed, all the public option thing will do in the long run is make a select group of people very very much wealthier than they already are.

So buy stock in Blue Cross and get wealthier. What's the problem?

 

[Immanuel]

Democrats have been saying that they are all for the elimination of private health insurance. Don't believe me, watch the videos in this thread:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/healt...lead-to-single-payer-government-run-care.html

edit: Oh and let me ask you this, aren't you glad Barney Frank and Barack Obama are working so hard to eliminate those jobs?

Immie

Fine with me. I have no desire to protect an industry whose costs double every eight years. And fewer jobs means lower prices right?

Sounds better all the time...

Fewer jobs means more people on the unemployment line. I'm not talking about protecting the industry itself but the individuals like you and I who survive because of it.

That being said, I believe the only way to keep any industry honest is to have competition. The public option is designed to eliminate competition. In my humble opinion, that is a terrible idea.

Come on, Immanuel, those folks will need to find real jobs, just like the folks who are skimping pay medical bills of their loveds ones because the health insurance companies only insure the healthy.

Too darn bad.

That's the only real question nobody has asked [except for me]. The truth is, the skills required are easily skills that would transfer to any clerical/office/administration sort of work. These are the job holders that the insurance companies shed first, and have already and they've started to stop insuring them and/or raising their rates for health insurance. There is only alarm because this is legislatively driven, if it were innovation driven then there would be no outcry whatsoever. Typesetters had to just dry up and go away with the advent of desktop publishing, steel workers just had to adjust and on and on......ad nauseum. Nothing is constant except for change itself. That's life. But these people are not highly skilled , nor do their skills relegate them to some obscure and small type of employment pool. Maybe they should get some education and be doctors or nurses. That's what the right says about the American auto industry......but they actually produce stuff.

My question to the both of you, is how many "real jobs" do you think are out there?

Nationwide we are at 10% unemployment and rising... and of course, I blame President Obama for that... JUST KIDDING!, but jobs, real jobs are scarce these days. I'm worried about my job. The economy is struggling (part of the cycle, but it is still struggling) and the business I work in is being affected just like everything else.

Do you think adding that many job seekers to the unemployment lines will help. I tell you, I hope to God, I don't have to start competing for a job in the near future.

Immie

You are not talking about something that will occur over night and whether a business survives will depend on how well they are managed. The post office has not eliminated UPS or any other courier even though one is nonprofit and the others for profit. So just why are you assuming that the insurance industry cannot compete with a public option? Businesses that give better service at a competitive price will survive. Those that don't, won't, and I will shed nary a tear to see them go...

True, it will not happen over night. It will happen (if HR 3200 correct number?) were passed it would take no longer than five years before many of the insurers were driven out of business.

As for your Postal Service example, it is a decent one, but there is one major difference between the Postal Service and the public option/health insurance idea. The government has not mandated that UPS provide its services at $0.44 per delivery whereas under the health care plans that have been debated, private insurers are required to provide identical policies at identical prices as the public option and no other policies will be allowed. Nor will insurers be allowed to offer policies to new customers.

Those two facts, in and of themselves will kill the industry and the videos discussed above prove that this is the goal of our elected politicians.

Immie

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Well I am just a call from getting a seasonal job at Cost Co and I knew once I have a chance I will be hired FULL time permanent job. One of the best employers in the country. YEAH BABY!

 

[Emma]

I dont think the insurance companies are making enough money. Look, you have to understand, they make money when people pay, then get denied and dropped when they get sick.

Leave them alone!

That might well be how Medicare tries to hold costs down since, according to the AMA, Medicare denies more claims than any private insurance company.

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/368/reportcard.pdf

Scroll down to metric 12.

Now scroll down to the codes.

 

[PeterS]

Immie

Fewer jobs means more people on the unemployment line. I'm not talking about protecting the industry itself but the individuals like you and I who survive because of it.

But you aren't taking capital out of the system and it is capital that creates jobs. This is the same argument the left used against free trade and it was a fallacy then and a fallacy now.

Immie

That being said, I believe the only way to keep any industry honest is to have competition. The public option is designed to eliminate competition. In my humble opinion, that is a terrible idea.

In our current system price is negotiated between providers then packaged and sold to employers with cost to employees determined by the elimination of services and higher deductibles and co-pays. Where is the competition?

And I have every respect for your opinion but we do not have a competitive freemarket system now because it is not the consumer, but provider, who determines price.

Immie

True, it will not happen over night. It will happen (if HR 3200 correct number?) were passed it would take no longer than five years before many of the insurers were driven out of business.

As for your Postal Service example, it is a decent one, but there is one major difference between the Postal Service and the public option/health insurance idea. The government has not mandated that UPS provide its services at $0.44 per delivery whereas under the health care plans that have been debated, private insurers are required to provide identical policies at identical prices as the public option and no other policies will be allowed. Nor will insurers be allowed to offer policies to new customers.

Those two facts, in and of themselves will kill the industry and the videos discussed above prove that this is the goal of our elected politicians.Immie

True, if that is indeed what HR3200 does. Where does it say that though? Do you have a page number?