Question for Government Run Healthcare Supporters...

[KMAN]

How many of you take your extra money in your check each week and give that to people who don't have health insurance?

 

[sealybobo]

How many of you take your extra money in your check each week and give that to people who don't have health insurance?

If you knew there was a car out there that worked better than your car and cost $6K less, would you buy it?

They are ripping us off and you know it.

 

[Big Black Dog]

This lame health care bill is never going to pass. Funny thing about the bill is that the President himself doesn't even know what's in the bill. None of the members of Congress have read it either. It's a stupid, over price piece of a bill that's only intention is one of those "feel good" liberal things. More and more everyday it is even loosing support within the Democratic party. I wouldn't get so worked up over this mess. It's dying a slow but sure death. Obama talked about it for an hour on TV last night and he didn't say anything meaningful about the bill. He tap danced around every question and didn't give a decent answer to anything. He explained nothing about how the bill would work, how much it would cost people who enrolled into it, and he all but outright said medical services would be rationed. Wish they would stop talking about it and get on to the next hokey pokey bill that Obama wants the country to spend trillions on.

 

[PoliticalChic]

How many of you take your extra money in your check each week and give that to people who don't have health insurance?

You know, we are really scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to left-wing arguments on this board.

Can you believe that Nixon, above, is actually useing the "there's a better car..." argument?

To call it juvenile is giving a bad name to juveniles. To actually waste valuable keyboard time positing that the Obama Healthcare scam is better...???

No proof, no links, no documentation, no comparison, ... no brains.

When will he move all the way up to "Oh, yeah, my daddy can beat up your daddy"?

 

[Big Black Dog]

When will he move all the way up to "Oh, yeah, my daddy can beat up your daddy"?

I bet my daddy can beat up your daddy!

 

[PoliticalChic]

When will he move all the way up to "Oh, yeah, my daddy can beat up your daddy"?

I bet my daddy can beat up your daddy!

Oh, ...and how much is this gonna' cost me?

 

[PixieStix]

How many of you take your extra money in your check each week and give that to people who don't have health insurance?

Why don't you ask how much I put toward my own healthcare? That happens to be ZERO, because in reality there is money stolen from me each week from my government to take care of others who do not work, many times they do not work because they just don't feel like it, poor things.
Meanwhile I have no healthcare. But I really do not want to be part of a healthcare system that will soon be totally run by the same entity that controls my paycheck

 

[Big Black Dog]

Oh, ...and how much is this gonna' cost me?

What's it worth to ya?

 

[KMAN]

How many of you take your extra money in your check each week and give that to people who don't have health insurance?

If you knew there was a car out there that worked better than your car and cost $6K less, would you buy it?

They are ripping us off and you know it.

Once again, like Obama you fail to answer the question.... go figure.

 

[KMAN]

This lame health care bill is never going to pass. Funny thing about the bill is that the President himself doesn't even know what's in the bill. None of the members of Congress have read it either. It's a stupid, over price piece of a bill that's only intention is one of those "feel good" liberal things. More and more everyday it is even loosing support within the Democratic party. I wouldn't get so worked up over this mess. It's dying a slow but sure death. Obama talked about it for an hour on TV last night and he didn't say anything meaningful about the bill. He tap danced around every question and didn't give a decent answer to anything. He explained nothing about how the bill would work, how much it would cost people who enrolled into it, and he all but outright said medical services would be rationed. Wish they would stop talking about it and get on to the next hokey pokey bill that Obama wants the country to spend trillions on.

I hope you are right but they passed the stimulus without reading it....scary...

 

[KMAN]

How many of you take your extra money in your check each week and give that to people who don't have health insurance?

Why don't you ask how much I put toward my own healthcare? That happens to be ZERO, because in reality there is money stolen from me each week from my government to take care of others who do not work, many times they do not work because they just don't feel like it, poor things.
Meanwhile I have no healthcare. But I really do not want to be part of a healthcare system that will soon be totally run by the same entity that controls my paycheck

I hear you... Just imagine if the government cut spending and gave us some of our own money back to pay for our own healthcare...

 

[PixieStix]

How many of you take your extra money in your check each week and give that to people who don't have health insurance?

Why don't you ask how much I put toward my own healthcare? That happens to be ZERO, because in reality there is money stolen from me each week from my government to take care of others who do not work, many times they do not work because they just don't feel like it, poor things.
Meanwhile I have no healthcare. But I really do not want to be part of a healthcare system that will soon be totally run by the same entity that controls my paycheck

I hear you... Just imagine if the government cut spending and gave us some of our own money back to pay for our own healthcare...

Then I could make my own choice, instead of being forced to do something against my will.

I am amazed that people have allowed this to get so far.

The right to make Personal choices are challenged daily with this obamunism.

Choices are being stolen from all of us. Therefore the character to do the right thing is being challenged by this regime

 

[Bfgrn]

When will he move all the way up to "Oh, yeah, my daddy can beat up your daddy"?

I bet my daddy can beat up your daddy!

Oh, ...and how much is this gonna' cost me?

How about HALF your income, if the status quo is kept in place...

The cost of the average employer-sponsored health insurance plan (ESI) for a family will reach $24,000 in 2016. This represents an 84 percent increase over 2008 premium levels. Under this scenario, we estimate that at least half of American households will need to spend more than 45 percent of their income to buy health insurance.
The Cost of Doing Nothing
Why the Cost of Failing to Fix Our Health System Is Greater than the Cost of Reform


BTW, you had your head handed to you HERE and you never responded PC...

I'm happy with my healthcare but I'm fortunate enough to have a decent job with benefits. I'm more concerned with helping those in need and eliminating waste.

You are in the vast majority. Over 85% are happy with their health care, and the number goes even higher when we poll those who have recently had serious procedures.

“…while the numbers clearly show that people are happier with their own health care than with the system as a whole, there is no dimension with which their happier than the quality of care they personally receive…a mere 15 percent complain about the quality of care they receive.”.(New England Journal of Medicine)
Health Beat: The Quality Question

And, of course, the 47 million figure of those uninsured is bogus, and is, in actuallity, closer to 15 million, 4.8 % of the population.

Which leads to the question as to why the Democrats are so hot to throw out a working system.

It's a good thing you didn't read any further PC; you weren't looking for TRUTH, you were looking for something that would support your dogma...

You picked the wrong article, organization and study...LOL!

The Quality Question

No doubt one of the reasons that quality doesn’t make it into the health care discussions as readily as coverage or cost is because of this very satisfaction: if people are happy, then there’s no problem—so why pick a fight where there need not be conflict? Health care reform is already hard enough.

But quality is a problem. Just because Americans are happy with their care, doesn’t mean that they are getting the best care—or even recommended levels of care, as determined through medical consensus.

In 2003, Elizabeth McGlynn, the associate director of RAND’s health care program, led the first national, comprehensive study on the quality of care for adults. (Read that sentence again: we didn’t have a major nation-wide study on quality until just five years ago. The Institute of Medicine did focus on medical errors in its 1999 report, “To Err is Human"; but the RAND study looked at whether doctors were following “best practice.”) Quality has clearly been an overlooked issue in health care assessments.

Maggie has touched on McGlynn's study in a previous post, but it’s worth discussing again here. Using telephone interviews and two-year medical records, McGlynn’s team assessed whether or not 13,275 participants in 12 metropolitan regions received the level of care that doctors recommend for their specific ailments (25 conditions in all, including congestive heart failure, hypertension, breast cancer, diabetes, asthma, coronary artery disease, STDs, headaches, and alcohol dependence). What they found was that, on average, patients receive just 55 percent of recommended care for their conditions. (“Recommended care” was determined by (1) poring over national guidelines and medical literature to come up with key indicators and (2) subjecting these indicators to four nine-person, multi-specialty panels, who nixed or okayed the metrics).

This proportion was remarkably consistent across different kinds of care. The authors found “little difference among the proportion of recommended preventive care provided (54.9 percent), the proportion of recommended acute care provided (53.5 percent), and the proportion of recommended care provided for chronic conditions (56.1 percent).”

In testimony before the Senate Finance Committee last month, McGlynn nicely summed up the implications of these numbers: “we spend nearly $2 trillion annually on health care and we get it right about half the time.”

 

[KMAN]

Is booboo the only supporter of this out there???? Jillian??? I'm sure you support this...

 

[KittenKoder]

Want some really strange irony?

I earn just under the poverty line, on purpose mainly because of a mental disability, but also because I am lazy and only work when I have to, so I don't pay taxes. Also, people think people in my "tax bracket" would benefit from this ... but I don't like it one bit. The people I do work for would pay much more for my services if they could afford it, pass this and they won't be able to ever, but if this doesn't pass I stand to make a small fortune once the "recession" is over. So no, this healthcare run by the government is not a good idea ... because all it will do is make it impossible for me to earn more.

 

[PoliticalChic]

How about HALF your income, if the status quo is kept in place...

The cost of the average employer-sponsored health insurance plan (ESI) for a family will reach $24,000 in 2016. This represents an 84 percent increase over 2008 premium levels. Under this scenario, we estimate that at least half of American households will need to spend more than 45 percent of their income to buy health insurance.
The Cost of Doing Nothing
Why the Cost of Failing to Fix Our Health System Is Greater than the Cost of Reform


BTW, you had your head handed to you HERE and you never responded PC...

You are in the vast majority. Over 85% are happy with their health care, and the number goes even higher when we poll those who have recently had serious procedures.

“…while the numbers clearly show that people are happier with their own health care than with the system as a whole, there is no dimension with which their happier than the quality of care they personally receive…a mere 15 percent complain about the quality of care they receive.”.(New England Journal of Medicine)
Health Beat: The Quality Question

And, of course, the 47 million figure of those uninsured is bogus, and is, in actuallity, closer to 15 million, 4.8 % of the population.

Which leads to the question as to why the Democrats are so hot to throw out a working system.

It's a good thing you didn't read any further PC; you weren't looking for TRUTH, you were looking for something that would support your dogma...

You picked the wrong article, organization and study...LOL!

The Quality Question

No doubt one of the reasons that quality doesn’t make it into the health care discussions as readily as coverage or cost is because of this very satisfaction: if people are happy, then there’s no problem—so why pick a fight where there need not be conflict? Health care reform is already hard enough.

But quality is a problem. Just because Americans are happy with their care, doesn’t mean that they are getting the best care—or even recommended levels of care, as determined through medical consensus.

In 2003, Elizabeth McGlynn, the associate director of RAND’s health care program, led the first national, comprehensive study on the quality of care for adults. (Read that sentence again: we didn’t have a major nation-wide study on quality until just five years ago. The Institute of Medicine did focus on medical errors in its 1999 report, “To Err is Human"; but the RAND study looked at whether doctors were following “best practice.”) Quality has clearly been an overlooked issue in health care assessments.

Maggie has touched on McGlynn's study in a previous post, but it’s worth discussing again here. Using telephone interviews and two-year medical records, McGlynn’s team assessed whether or not 13,275 participants in 12 metropolitan regions received the level of care that doctors recommend for their specific ailments (25 conditions in all, including congestive heart failure, hypertension, breast cancer, diabetes, asthma, coronary artery disease, STDs, headaches, and alcohol dependence). What they found was that, on average, patients receive just 55 percent of recommended care for their conditions. (“Recommended care” was determined by (1) poring over national guidelines and medical literature to come up with key indicators and (2) subjecting these indicators to four nine-person, multi-specialty panels, who nixed or okayed the metrics).

This proportion was remarkably consistent across different kinds of care. The authors found “little difference among the proportion of recommended preventive care provided (54.9 percent), the proportion of recommended acute care provided (53.5 percent), and the proportion of recommended care provided for chronic conditions (56.1 percent).”

In testimony before the Senate Finance Committee last month, McGlynn nicely summed up the implications of these numbers: “we spend nearly $2 trillion annually on health care and we get it right about half the time.”

The Rand Study in which you take so much joy is at best peripheral to the discussion, as you should have realized, as there no indication that the Obama plan would correct these problems in any way.
a)Medical knowledge is evolving so quickly that helping doctors keep up by delivering information on best practices would be beneficial. But telling doctors what to do for the sake of cost control in dangerous. The RAND Corporation, a nonpartisan research organization, found that often physicians did not give patients the optimal treatment for their condition. But over-treating patients was seldom the problem (only 11% of the time.) Failing to give patients a needed treatment was four times as big a problem (46% of the time.) That's why prompting doctors to do the right think will help patients but not curb spending.
Downgrading Health Care

b) Still, it remains to be seen whether certain drugs or procedures wouldn’t be denied to customers under a public plan as well. In fact, the criticism from conservatives has been that a public plan would be stingy in what it would cover in an effort to control costs. We can’t predict the future, but we find it unlikely that at least some denials wouldn’t take place no matter who is issuing insurance.
FactCheck.org: Pushing for a Public Plan


The idea that healthcare costs are 'skyrocketing' is as bogus as most of your posts are.
1) The following is the annual growth of healthcare expenditures:
2003 8.6%
2004 6.9%
2005 6.5%
2006 6.7%
2007 6.1%

Skyrocketing? Compared to what? In 1970, it was 10.5% and in 1980 it was 13%.
Downgrading Health Care

Too bad your comprehension didn't skyrocket.

Now for a lesson in economics. Gratis.
Rather than viewing only the healthcare costs alone, consider the largest 'package' of strain on spendable income: together- housing & food & fuel & healthcare:

Taken together, the package takes up the same 53-55% as it has since 1960 That's over two and a half generations.


"By Betsy McCaughey Betsy McCaughey, Ph.D., is a patient advocate, founder of the Committee to Reduce Infection Deaths, and a former Lt. Governor of New York State.
Downgrading Health Care
The administration has warned that soaring health spending threatens the stability of American families and the economy. These doomsday scenarios are untrue. Health care spending is increasing at more moderate rates than in previous decades. Spending increased 10.5 percent in 1970, 13 percent in 1980, and consistently less than 7 percent in each of the last five years, reaching a low of 6.1 percent a year ago. Each year since 1960, food and energy together have taken up a declining share of Americans' expenditures, while housing has taken up a steady share. This has enabled Americans to spend an increasing share of their budgets on another necessity, healthcare. These four necessities together consume the same share of American spending now (55%) as they did in 1960 (53%). As further evidence, Americans are increasing the share of their spending that goes to recreation. Moderate income families can be helped to buy health coverage with vouchers, refundable tax credits, or debit cards. That's a low risk, "fix what's broken" approach."

Let's see what else you are wrong about.
"The cost of the average employer-sponsored health insurance plan (ESI) for a family will reach $24,000 in 2016."
And you would be basing your assumption on what study of "accuracy in government estimates..."

You must love phrases like "...Under this scenario, we estimate ..."

And, more: " ...you had your head handed to you ...'
Only in your addled brain.

No better proof of liberal what-passed-for-thinking then the view that you folks always know better than the people that you are 'concerned' about.

No matter how many studies show that not only do the vast majority (80-85%) say they are pleased with their healthcare, and the view is over 90% when those who have recently had a serious illness are polled, you need to show that they really don't know what is good for them.

“…while the numbers clearly show that people are happier with their own health care than with the system as a whole, there is no dimension with which their happier than the quality of care they personally receive…a mere 15 percent complain about the quality of care they receive.”.(New England Journal of Medicine)
Health Beat: The Quality Question

The most recent ABC News/Washington Post poll (June 21) finds that 83 percent of Americans are very satisfied or somewhat satisfied with the quality of their health care, and 81 percent are similarly satisfied with their health insurance.

They have good reason to be. If you're diagnosed with cancer, you have a better chance of surviving it in the United States than anywhere else, according to the Concord Five Continent Study. And the World Health Organization ranked the United States No. 1 out of 191 countries for being responsive to patients' needs, including providing timely treatments and a choice of doctors.
Defend Your Health Care


The need to be smarter than the rest of the proletariat is a liberal inferiority complex, but I realize that you guys are actually inferior.

So let's review.
Healthcare has not skyrocketed.
Folks by and large are happy with the current healthcare.
My head remains majestically in place.
Democrat talking points lead your around as though you have a ring through your nose.

Suggestions:
1. To reduce healthcare costs, increase the number of doctors. Obama care would do the opposite.
2. Identify the 8-10 million who need and are unable to get healthcare, and provide debit cards as is done for food stamps.
3. Drop the nonsense about declining care for pre-existing conditions, or else folks on their deathbed would take out life insurance.
4. Admit that the Obama care program is predicated on getting seniors to die.
5. Provide free lie-detector tests for Democrat politicians.

 

[KMAN]

Great post!

 

[PoliticalChic]

Why don't you ask how much I put toward my own healthcare? That happens to be ZERO, because in reality there is money stolen from me each week from my government to take care of others who do not work, many times they do not work because they just don't feel like it, poor things.
Meanwhile I have no healthcare. But I really do not want to be part of a healthcare system that will soon be totally run by the same entity that controls my paycheck

I hear you... Just imagine if the government cut spending and gave us some of our own money back to pay for our own healthcare...

Then I could make my own choice, instead of being forced to do something against my will.

I am amazed that people have allowed this to get so far.

The right to make Personal choices are challenged daily with this obamunism.

Choices are being stolen from all of us. Therefore the character to do the right thing is being challenged by this regime

And if healcare plans of all stripes were allowed to use free market ideas, such as Progressive Insurance does, letting the user select what is necessary for the individual. You could choose something available in every other field, such as telephone or e-mail consultation programs, which are not paid for currently, and costs commensurate with your particular health situation.
The government could allow tax deductions, as they do now, based on what percentage is spent out-of-pocket depending on the health problem.
And never, ever put forth a plan that prevents private individuals from spending their own money as they see fit.

 

[Midnight Marauder]

The "community health care policing" shouldn't be a part of this bill, or part of any bill in this country. This is a provision whereby ACORN or some other "community" group comes to your house for a "wellness" check. Interviewing you, weighing you, seeing if you're living a "healthy lifestyle."

I'm sure all the health scare reform nuts are loving that provision, and will welcome these "community wellness" police into their home.

 

[PixieStix]

I hear you... Just imagine if the government cut spending and gave us some of our own money back to pay for our own healthcare...

Then I could make my own choice, instead of being forced to do something against my will.

I am amazed that people have allowed this to get so far.

The right to make Personal choices are challenged daily with this obamunism.

Choices are being stolen from all of us. Therefore the character to do the right thing is being challenged by this regime

And if healcare plans of all stripes were allowed to use free market ideas, such as Progressive Insurance does, letting the user select what is necessary for the individual. You could choose something available in every other field, such as telephone or e-mail consultation programs, which are not paid for currently, and costs commensurate with your particular health situation.
The government could allow tax deductions, as they do now, based on what percentage is spent out-of-pocket depending on the health problem.
And never, ever put forth a plan that prevents private individuals from spending their own money as they see fit.

Government simply needs to be stopped. We need to hold each one of the governmental agencies accountable, we need to stop the bloated beurocracies that this regime is creating. As if we did not already have enough.

Beurocracy costs money.

Why does the government have to "allow" anything. Why can't they just stay out of it, and mind the business "allowing" freedom???