Question for everyone: Should the United States have open borders?

[BluesLegend]

So you believe we are responsible for these people correct?

I believe that we bear some responsibility for what has happened in those countries and that this immigrant crisis is a largely a result of our policies.

If we didn't want to take responsibilty we should not have intervened.

That's a hell of a claim, can you back it up?

Are you that ignorant of recent history?

The fact is that we intervened in Central America in the 1980s (Did you ever hear of Oliver North?)

We changed Central America and we are responsible for what we changed.

The fact that the immigrants are mostly coming from countries that we forced our policies on is no coincidence.

Still waiting for you to back up your claim, my guess is you can't. State the specific actions the USA took which resulted in the "immigrant crisis" or your claim is utter nonsense.

Here ya go dumbo:

America's Role in El Salvador's Deterioration - The Atlantic

You idiot, here from your own link "El Salvador has made remarkable progress since the end of the war in 1992" that was 26 years ago. As for THEIR civil war which was already raging during the Carter administration, you forgot to mention Cuba and the Soviet Union were backing the communists in this civil war, why was it selective? You libs and your habit of telling a twisted half truth.

 

[deanrd]

Question for everyone: Should the United States have open borders?

Of course not. Why do right wingers always ask such stupid questions.

They are the most binary people on earth. To them, everything and I mean everything is either this or that. One or the other. With only two choices for everything, no wonder they have no problem solving skills.
Normal people understand, but right wingers will answer that there are only two possible answers to everything.

 

[BluesLegend]

So you believe we are responsible for these people correct?

I believe that we bear some responsibility for what has happened in those countries and that this immigrant crisis is a largely a result of our policies.

If we didn't want to take responsibilty we should not have intervened.

That's a hell of a claim, can you back it up?

Are you that ignorant of recent history?

The fact is that we intervened in Central America in the 1980s (Did you ever hear of Oliver North?)

We changed Central America and we are responsible for what we changed.

The fact that the immigrants are mostly coming from countries that we forced our policies on is no coincidence.

So you were ok with Sandinistas, in Nicaragua
It was alarming that in just a few months after the Sandinista revolution, Nicaragua received international acclaim for its rapid progress in the fields of literacy and health. It was alarming that a socialist-mixed-economy state could do in a few short months what the Somoza dynasty, a U.S. client state, could not do in 45 years! It was truly alarming that the Sandinistas were intent on providing the very services that establish a government's political and moral legitimacy.
Contras - Wikipedia

Sounds like these guys were the good guys to you. Right?
In the resulting February 1990 elections, Violeta Chamorro and her party the UNO won an upset victory of 55% to 41% over Daniel Ortega,[112] even though polls leading up to the election had clearly indicated an FSLN victory.[113]

Possible explanations include that the Nicaraguan people were disenchanted with the Ortega regime as well as the fact that already in November 1989, the White House had announced that the economic embargo against Nicaragua would continue unless Violeta Chamorro won.[114] Also, there had been reports of intimidation from the side of the contras,[115] with a Canadian observer mission claiming that 42 people were killed by the contras in "election violence" in October 1989.[116] This led many commentators to conclude that Nicaraguans voted against the Sandinistas out of fear of a continuation of the contra war and economic deprivation.[113]
Contras - Wikipedia

It's none of my business what happened or is happening in Nicaragua. Carter kept us out of their conflict so we are not responsible for it.

To the extent that Reagan may have intervened we are reponsible. But any intervention in Nicaragua was minor as compared to our intervention in Guatemala, El Salvatore and Honduras.

Was I O.K. with the Sandinistas? It was none of my business and not for me to judge...and therefore not for me to be responsible for.

Cuba and the Soviet Union are not responsible? Are you an America hater?

 

[BluesLegend]

I believe that we bear some responsibility for what has happened in those countries and that this immigrant crisis is a largely a result of our policies.

If we didn't want to take responsibilty we should not have intervened.

That's a hell of a claim, can you back it up?

Are you that ignorant of recent history?

The fact is that we intervened in Central America in the 1980s (Did you ever hear of Oliver North?)

We changed Central America and we are responsible for what we changed.

The fact that the immigrants are mostly coming from countries that we forced our policies on is no coincidence.

Still waiting for you to back up your claim, my guess is you can't. State the specific actions the USA took which resulted in the "immigrant crisis" or your claim is utter nonsense.

Here ya go dumbo:

America's Role in El Salvador's Deterioration - The Atlantic

You post an editorial piece, so we should have let those countries fall to the Marist and turned communist.
Supplying Billions in aid was not enough,

Cuba and the Soviet Union stirred this shit up, Reagan was forced to step in.

 

[IsaacNewton]

It appears that the question is not stupid because everything that the Democrats oppose in GOP legislation point to the Democrats favor everyone coming in at any time.

Now historically we did have that... when on August 3,1882 the first "general immigration law" was passed.
Immigration Act of 1882 - Wikipedia
And the population of the USA at that time was 50,189,209 or 1/6 what it is today.

So our country was founded on the rule of law... not emotion. Not illogic. But founded on the preamble of the US Constitution what clearly states.."provide for the common defence".

So if we have no borders. No laws regarding who can come in what do we have but back to where we were
over 136 years when EVERYONE had a gun. A lot of the country had no law and anyone could come in.

So is that what the Democrats want? Our country to revert back to the way we were in the 1880s?

I'm all in favor then as there would be open season on protecting me and my property it sounds like.

The latest talking point handed down by conservative media. It is playing on all the con talk shows on que. Of course nobody is advocating open borders, Barack Obama deported many more than Trump because he followed the law. Obama though wasn't a nazi like Trump is. That is the difference.

But the spin has begun already because cons know this issue is a yuuuuuge loser for them when all these images show up in political ads in the next few months. So they are trying to put out the spin that the other side is for open borders. It is just another lie. But we've seen already, conservatives only have lies now, nobody follows their policies.

 

[Timmy]

Question for everyone: Should the United States have open borders?

Of course not. Why do right wingers always ask such stupid questions.

They are the most binary people on earth. To them, everything and I mean everything is either this or that. One or the other. With only two choices for everything, no wonder they have no problem solving skills.
Normal people understand, but right wingers will answer that there are only two possible answers to everything.

The cons typical MO Is to instantly take things to the far extreme .

“I don’t think mentally ill people should be able to buy guns.”

Cons :” OH MY GOD! YOU WANT TO BAN ALL GUNS !! “

 

[Richard-H]

I believe that we bear some responsibility for what has happened in those countries and that this immigrant crisis is a largely a result of our policies.

If we didn't want to take responsibilty we should not have intervened.

That's a hell of a claim, can you back it up?

Are you that ignorant of recent history?

The fact is that we intervened in Central America in the 1980s (Did you ever hear of Oliver North?)

We changed Central America and we are responsible for what we changed.

The fact that the immigrants are mostly coming from countries that we forced our policies on is no coincidence.

Still waiting for you to back up your claim, my guess is you can't. State the specific actions the USA took which resulted in the "immigrant crisis" or your claim is utter nonsense.

Here ya go dumbo:

America's Role in El Salvador's Deterioration - The Atlantic

You post an editorial piece, so we should have let those countries fall to the Marist and turned communist.
Supplying Billions in aid was not enough,

We should have let those countries run themselves. If they chose Communism, the they could suffer the consquences.

The fact that we had to supply billions in aid just to keep our prefered government in power shows that those governments did not deserve to exist.

Why should we intervene to support governments that their own people do not want?

 

[Theowl32]

No.

Next question. Should we intentionally target children with the intention of traumatizing them as our focus in order to enforce policies?

Do you detect their double talk? They are such deranged parhetic hypocritical losers.

 

[Cosmos]

Actions have consequences, the folks to blame are the one who took the wrong actions. You got what you wanted, the families will now stay together.
In prison until they are vetted and cleared. try and be happy.

So that's a yes, Children should be targeted with the intention of traumatizing them. Should children be physically harmed as well? How about thrown in to gas chambers? Where do you draw the line? Do you have a line?

Stupid people take things out to an illogical extreme. You got what you wanted, you won. They will stay together, be happy. The "targeted" folks are the law breakers. I know that's a tough thing for a Prog to understand but the blame lies squarely on the parents. Do try and grow up so you can learn to debate without being stupid.

So where do you draw the line? I asked you a question. What is NOT acceptable to you?

It wasn't a question, it was a patently stupid thing to type. Weak minded people throw out that Nazi shit when they are cornered. You won, they will stay together you can be happy now. Or is that you think we should just let them all in because they want in?

Here is my position. The "parents" broke the law, they brought the consequences down upon themselves and their children. The blame rests with the "parents".

No, their parents did not break the law. These are people who are applying for asylum and other legal immigrant status. They should all get a hearing under due process to determine if their application is accepted.

Right. So why invade our country? Why not make application at the US Consulate in their country of origin? We have diplomatic facilities in every Central and South American country designed for that purpose.


As to the question. Hell NO. No Open Borders.

 

[RDD_1210]

Question for everyone: Should the United States have open borders?

Of course not. Why do right wingers always ask such stupid questions.

They are the most binary people on earth. To them, everything and I mean everything is either this or that. One or the other. With only two choices for everything, no wonder they have no problem solving skills.
Normal people understand, but right wingers will answer that there are only two possible answers to everything.

To be fair, they are not smart people, didn't grow up in an environment where learning was encouraged and are actively taught that education is for "elites". Of course they are easily manipulated and can be led to believe ridiculous things (ie. Pizza Gate, Birtherism, or Sandy Hook is a govt hoax) to the scary (ie. brown kids should be traumatized to achieve political desires).

Some of them even know they aren't smart, but they don't care. They are just glad that there are others just like them and being a part of something, as wrong as it is, is more important than daring to be different than everything you know or putting forth effort to really learn about a topic.

Education takes effort, conservatism is easy to blindly follow.

 

[Richard-H]

I believe that we bear some responsibility for what has happened in those countries and that this immigrant crisis is a largely a result of our policies.

If we didn't want to take responsibilty we should not have intervened.

That's a hell of a claim, can you back it up?

Are you that ignorant of recent history?

The fact is that we intervened in Central America in the 1980s (Did you ever hear of Oliver North?)

We changed Central America and we are responsible for what we changed.

The fact that the immigrants are mostly coming from countries that we forced our policies on is no coincidence.

Still waiting for you to back up your claim, my guess is you can't. State the specific actions the USA took which resulted in the "immigrant crisis" or your claim is utter nonsense.

Here ya go dumbo:

America's Role in El Salvador's Deterioration - The Atlantic

You idiot, here from your own link "El Salvador has made remarkable progress since the end of the war in 1992" that was 26 years ago. As for THEIR civil war which was already raging during the Carter administration, you forgot to mention Cuba and the Soviet Union were backing the communists in this civil war, why was it selective? You libs and your habit of telling a twisted half truth.

'Remarkable progress' doesn't mean much for a country that's be devastated.

Cuba and the Soviet Union would be responsible IF the forces that they supported has won the war.

The forces that we supported won and have controlled the country since. They are responsible for the thousnads of the countrymen that are risking death and injury to get out of their country. We are responsible becuase we put those people in power.

Is the concept of people being responsible for their action so far beyond you?

 

[RDD_1210]

Question for everyone: Should the United States have open borders?

Of course not. Why do right wingers always ask such stupid questions.

They are the most binary people on earth. To them, everything and I mean everything is either this or that. One or the other. With only two choices for everything, no wonder they have no problem solving skills.
Normal people understand, but right wingers will answer that there are only two possible answers to everything.

The cons typical MO Is to instantly take things to the far extreme .

“I don’t think mentally ill people should be able to buy guns.”

Cons :” OH MY GOD! YOU WANT TO BAN ALL GUNS !! “

Look at the way Fox News portrays anything. It's always the extreme. Critical thinking and compromise are not in the toolbox of the lazy and uneducated.

 

[Richard-H]

So that's a yes, Children should be targeted with the intention of traumatizing them. Should children be physically harmed as well? How about thrown in to gas chambers? Where do you draw the line? Do you have a line?

Stupid people take things out to an illogical extreme. You got what you wanted, you won. They will stay together, be happy. The "targeted" folks are the law breakers. I know that's a tough thing for a Prog to understand but the blame lies squarely on the parents. Do try and grow up so you can learn to debate without being stupid.

So where do you draw the line? I asked you a question. What is NOT acceptable to you?

It wasn't a question, it was a patently stupid thing to type. Weak minded people throw out that Nazi shit when they are cornered. You won, they will stay together you can be happy now. Or is that you think we should just let them all in because they want in?

Here is my position. The "parents" broke the law, they brought the consequences down upon themselves and their children. The blame rests with the "parents".

No, their parents did not break the law. These are people who are applying for asylum and other legal immigrant status. They should all get a hearing under due process to determine if their application is accepted.

Right. So why invade our country? Why not make application at the US Consulate in their country of origin? We have diplomatic facilities in every Central and South American country designed for that purpose.


As to the question. Hell NO. No Open Borders.

OMG! We're being invaded by hard working honest people looking for a better way of life!

We ought to be jelious of those people who got invaded by hordes of tanks and soldiers back in the good ole 1930s! They couldn't imagine the horros that we're going thru!

 

[Cosmos]

That's a hell of a claim, can you back it up?

Are you that ignorant of recent history?

The fact is that we intervened in Central America in the 1980s (Did you ever hear of Oliver North?)

We changed Central America and we are responsible for what we changed.

The fact that the immigrants are mostly coming from countries that we forced our policies on is no coincidence.

Still waiting for you to back up your claim, my guess is you can't. State the specific actions the USA took which resulted in the "immigrant crisis" or your claim is utter nonsense.

Here ya go dumbo:

America's Role in El Salvador's Deterioration - The Atlantic

You idiot, here from your own link "El Salvador has made remarkable progress since the end of the war in 1992" that was 26 years ago. As for THEIR civil war which was already raging during the Carter administration, you forgot to mention Cuba and the Soviet Union were backing the communists in this civil war, why was it selective? You libs and your habit of telling a twisted half truth.

'Remarkable progress' doesn't mean much for a country that's be devastated.

Cuba and the Soviet Union would be responsible IF the forces that they supported has won the war.

The forces that we supported won and have controlled the country since. They are responsible for the thousnads of the countrymen that are risking death and injury to get out of their country. We are responsible becuase we put those people in power.

Is the concept of people being responsible for their action so far beyond you?

Hahahahahhahahahahahha!!!!!!!!!!! So the Soviet Union has been wreaking havoc in countries around the world for over a century but since they've been on the losing end, they're not responsible. Dope.

 

[Cosmos]

Stupid people take things out to an illogical extreme. You got what you wanted, you won. They will stay together, be happy. The "targeted" folks are the law breakers. I know that's a tough thing for a Prog to understand but the blame lies squarely on the parents. Do try and grow up so you can learn to debate without being stupid.

So where do you draw the line? I asked you a question. What is NOT acceptable to you?

It wasn't a question, it was a patently stupid thing to type. Weak minded people throw out that Nazi shit when they are cornered. You won, they will stay together you can be happy now. Or is that you think we should just let them all in because they want in?

Here is my position. The "parents" broke the law, they brought the consequences down upon themselves and their children. The blame rests with the "parents".

No, their parents did not break the law. These are people who are applying for asylum and other legal immigrant status. They should all get a hearing under due process to determine if their application is accepted.

Right. So why invade our country? Why not make application at the US Consulate in their country of origin? We have diplomatic facilities in every Central and South American country designed for that purpose.


As to the question. Hell NO. No Open Borders.

OMG! We're being invaded by hard working honest people looking for a better way of life!

We ought to be jelious of those people who got invaded by hordes of tanks and soldiers back in the good ole 1930s! They couldn't imagine the horros that we're going thru!

Yeah, dipshit. When they enter illegally en-masse it's akin to an invasion. If they want to come here for a better life there is a legal process for doing that. It starts with obtaining an Immigrant Visa at the US Consulate in their country of origin. Amazingly, it is an existing pathway to legal US citizenship.

 

[Papageorgio]

No.

Next question. Should we intentionally target children with the intention of traumatizing them as our focus in order to enforce policies?

Should adults use their children in a criminal act to gain entrance into a country?

No.

Next question. Should we intentionally target children with the intention of traumatizing them as our focus in order to enforce policies?

Actions have consequences, the folks to blame are the one who took the wrong actions. You got what you wanted, the families will now stay together.
In prison until they are vetted and cleared. try and be happy.

Isn't it wonderful, we are sending children into prisons with criminals.

 

[Richard-H]

Are you that ignorant of recent history?

The fact is that we intervened in Central America in the 1980s (Did you ever hear of Oliver North?)

We changed Central America and we are responsible for what we changed.

The fact that the immigrants are mostly coming from countries that we forced our policies on is no coincidence.

Still waiting for you to back up your claim, my guess is you can't. State the specific actions the USA took which resulted in the "immigrant crisis" or your claim is utter nonsense.

Here ya go dumbo:

America's Role in El Salvador's Deterioration - The Atlantic

You idiot, here from your own link "El Salvador has made remarkable progress since the end of the war in 1992" that was 26 years ago. As for THEIR civil war which was already raging during the Carter administration, you forgot to mention Cuba and the Soviet Union were backing the communists in this civil war, why was it selective? You libs and your habit of telling a twisted half truth.

'Remarkable progress' doesn't mean much for a country that's be devastated.

Cuba and the Soviet Union would be responsible IF the forces that they supported has won the war.

The forces that we supported won and have controlled the country since. They are responsible for the thousnads of the countrymen that are risking death and injury to get out of their country. We are responsible becuase we put those people in power.

Is the concept of people being responsible for their action so far beyond you?

Hahahahahhahahahahahha!!!!!!!!!!! So the Soviet Union has been wreaking havoc in countries around the word for over a century but since they've been on the losing end, they're not responsible. Dope.

Are they responsible for current conditions in Vietnam? Yes!

Are they Responsible for current conditions in North Korea? Yes.

They got their way so they are responsible.

But we are largely responsible for El Salvatore, Guatemala, and Honduras.

Just as we are also responsible for South Korea...which we largely take credit for.

 

[LaDexter]

Planet Earth has too many humans already.

We should end all immigration. Trump's biggest error was trying to stop 2 demographics.... With our laws, it is either all or none.

We should also enact and change new laws to bias Americans against having big families.

 

[Cosmos]

But we are largely responsible for El Salvatore, Guatemala, and Honduras.

Just as we are also responsible for South Korea...which we largely take credit for.

No we are not. Don't be an ass.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

I believe that we bear some responsibility for what has happened in those countries and that this immigrant crisis is a largely a result of our policies.

If we didn't want to take responsibilty we should not have intervened.

Holy Cow.... there is no way on an internet discussion forum to properly educate you on the reality.
You, most likely, know about a thumbnails worth of knowledge on Central America.
So I could not possibly show you just how many ways you are wrong.
You bet America during the Carter, Reagan and Clinton era engaged with people in this area that "fell short" of their promises to put it in the best possible light. Having said that, Central America has been a fucked up region for millennia. The shear number of revolutions, regime changes meant the only thing that was stable was instability itself. We did not create that, or change it. All we did was back "less worse" people in hopes to over throw worse. It didn't work.
But that does not mean we are responsible for the overall fucked upness of this region...it was fucked up before we attempted to intervene, and fucked up afterwards.