Question about Islam and the Qu'ran

[JenT]

Where does it say how to convert to Islam in the Qu'ran / Koran? And where does it say how to fast for Ramadan? Thanks.

(looks around) is Kalam still here? Or Sunni?

 

[JenT]

Saw Sunni Man on another post lately so I know they're here, Mr. Fitnah have you locked them in a closet again?

 

[AllieBaba]

JenT is going native?

 

[Baruch Menachem]

It is available here. They want you to read the who thing.

 

[Hister]

First, get rid of all your toilet paper.

 

[JenT]

Where does it say how to convert to Islam in the Qu'ran / Koran? And where does it say how to fast for Ramadan? Thanks.

(looks around) is Kalam still here? Or Sunni?

The reason I ask is, the Quran doesn't outline many of the required practices of Islam.

Many Muslims will claim everything you need to know about Islam is in the Quran. They don't want the other books and the violence within them to be seen by the west.

I realize there are many Muslims born in the west that know little about Islam, they bought into the "religion of peace" and will continue to claim that it is. Even though the Quran OBSESSES over the difference of believers and unbelievers of Allah, from cover to cover in the Qur'an. Talk about non-unity.

Islam is all about Mohammed, even the prayer to convert to Islam claims that Mohammed is the prophet. Mohammed failed at gaining converts peacefully but grew after becoming political and military. It's why "Islam" is so much more than a religion. It's meant to dominate everything in a person's life.

How to behave, how to worship, those are found in the Sira, the life of Mohammad. And in that Sira are the major acts of violence that many in the Middle East would rather the West had no idea of.

It includes all the acts of being deceptive, of coming in peace, of enforcing with violence

 

[Baruch Menachem]

The Koran is a response, much like Christianity, to religious abuses of the time and place.

the obligations are light, adherence is easy. Ramadan is a fast, but in winter it is not so onerous as it is in summer.

As a response, it is somewhat silly in places. Like the Muslim calendar is short by 17 days per year, which means the season rotate during the calendar. This is in response to religions decreeing "jubilee" months whenever the king was short on cash, and needed an extra month to pay his bills. Or really flaky calendars like the Jewish calendar, which is pretty accurate on a time scale of a hundred years, but from year to year with its insertion of jubilee months on weird rotating basis will have months zip back and forth. Jewish new year zips back and forth from mid september to late october according to the christian calendar.

It is also a response to casuistry, where there is fancy arguing over the meaning of the book, in order to get out of the obligations of the faith. Islam has no place for weird concepts like indulgences and the like.

The basic concept is that Gd has sent prophets down on several occasions, and each time organized churches have corrupted the basic teachings. Islam is a return to the word of Gd, uncorrupted.

As far as Islam is concerned, you read the book, follow the rules, you are converted.

 

[JenT]

The Koran is a response, much like Christianity, to religious abuses of the time and place.

the obligations are light, adherence is easy. Ramadan is a fast, but in winter it is not so onerous as it is in summer.

As a response, it is somewhat silly in places. Like the Muslim calendar is short by 17 days per year, which means the season rotate during the calendar. This is in response to religions decreeing "jubilee" months whenever the king was short on cash, and needed an extra month to pay his bills. Or really flaky calendars like the Jewish calendar, which is pretty accurate on a time scale of a hundred years, but from year to year with its insertion of jubilee months on weird rotating basis will have months zip back and forth. Jewish new year zips back and forth from mid september to late october according to the christian calendar.

It is also a response to casuistry, where there is fancy arguing over the meaning of the book, in order to get out of the obligations of the faith. Islam has no place for weird concepts like indulgences and the like.

The basic concept is that Gd has sent prophets down on several occasions, and each time organized churches have corrupted the basic teachings. Islam is a return to the word of Gd, uncorrupted.

As far as Islam is concerned, you read the book, follow the rules, you are converted.

Thanks Baruch. Does that mean a Muslim doesn't need to fast during Ramadan since it's not found in the Qur'an? At least I've never seen it there, please tell me the verse if it is, thanks.

 

[Bigmo]

Where does it say how to convert to Islam in the Qu'ran / Koran? And where does it say how to fast for Ramadan? Thanks.

(looks around) is Kalam still here? Or Sunni?

The reason I ask is, the Quran doesn't outline many of the required practices of Islam.

Many Muslims will claim everything you need to know about Islam is in the Quran. They don't want the other books and the violence within them to be seen by the west.

I realize there are many Muslims born in the west that know little about Islam, they bought into the "religion of peace" and will continue to claim that it is. Even though the Quran OBSESSES over the difference of believers and unbelievers of Allah, from cover to cover in the Qur'an. Talk about non-unity.

Islam is all about Mohammed, even the prayer to convert to Islam claims that Mohammed is the prophet. Mohammed failed at gaining converts peacefully but grew after becoming political and military. It's why "Islam" is so much more than a religion. It's meant to dominate everything in a person's life.

How to behave, how to worship, those are found in the Sira, the life of Mohammad. And in that Sira are the major acts of violence that many in the Middle East would rather the West had no idea of.

It includes all the acts of being deceptive, of coming in peace, of enforcing with violence

There are many kinds of hadiths. The hadiths you talk about are actually very few and are only used by terrorists. Most Muslims never heard of these hadiths and they can easily say "well not all hadiths are true". And there is really no difficulty in Muslims simply casting some of their hadiths away and leaving Sunni Islam intact. But for someone like me there are much more dangerous hadiths like the 5 pillar of Islam hadith. It may not be problematic for a Western audience but to me its more dangerous to establish pillars of a religion like Islam outside the Koran.

So for a Koranist, its not just violent of women bashing hadiths thats the problem but rather the contradictions and the abrogation hadiths. There are even hadiths that attack the Koran and claims verses are missing and were lost.

Plus Western audience have the problem that there are far more violent passages in the OT than there are in hadiths.

Finally you said Muhammad was peaceful and then later he became more aggressive. Thats has probably something to do with his success rather than failure as the Meccans became to take him more seriously. Finally they decided the best to stop the influence of the Koran is to kill him. Is this not what the Jews did to Jesus and what the Pharoah tried to do with Moses? So why should Muhammad be any different?

So the issue here is much bigger than a bunch of problematic hadiths. Thats is easy to solve, just cast them away. But the contradictions and abrogations are diffcult. Thats why the Sunni orthodoxy will never accept the Koranist because in their hadiths is the 5 pillars of Islam, the concept of consensus and the consept of abrogation. Without those there will be no shariah and no unified dogma and seperate identity that can distinguish them from Jews and Christians.

The Koran uses the criteria of faith in God and judgement day to distinguish. Koran is non sectarian.

 

[JenT]

Where does it say how to convert to Islam in the Qu'ran / Koran? And where does it say how to fast for Ramadan? Thanks.

(looks around) is Kalam still here? Or Sunni?

The reason I ask is, the Quran doesn't outline many of the required practices of Islam.

Many Muslims will claim everything you need to know about Islam is in the Quran. They don't want the other books and the violence within them to be seen by the west.

I realize there are many Muslims born in the west that know little about Islam, they bought into the "religion of peace" and will continue to claim that it is. Even though the Quran OBSESSES over the difference of believers and unbelievers of Allah, from cover to cover in the Qur'an. Talk about non-unity.

Islam is all about Mohammed, even the prayer to convert to Islam claims that Mohammed is the prophet. Mohammed failed at gaining converts peacefully but grew after becoming political and military. It's why "Islam" is so much more than a religion. It's meant to dominate everything in a person's life.

How to behave, how to worship, those are found in the Sira, the life of Mohammad. And in that Sira are the major acts of violence that many in the Middle East would rather the West had no idea of.

It includes all the acts of being deceptive, of coming in peace, of enforcing with violence

There are many kinds of hadiths. The hadiths you talk about are actually very few and are only used by terrorists. Most Muslims never heard of these hadiths and they can easily say "well not all hadiths are true". And there is really no difficulty in Muslims simply casting some of their hadiths away and leaving Sunni Islam intact. But for someone like me there are much more dangerous hadiths like the 5 pillar of Islam hadith. It may not be problematic for a Western audience but to me its more dangerous to establish pillars of a religion like Islam outside the Koran.

So for a Koranist, its not just violent of women bashing hadiths thats the problem but rather the contradictions and the abrogation hadiths. There are even hadiths that attack the Koran and claims verses are missing and were lost.

When I speak of hadiths, I'm speaking of the ones in the Sira, the oldest writings on record of the Life of Mohammad, studied and respected by clerics in the Middle East. The foundation for many of the beliefs of Islam and sharia law. The book that "moderate" Muslims of the east would rather the west had no knowledge of.

Plus Western audience have the problem that there are far more violent passages in the OT than there are in hadiths.

The OT has isolated directions from God to wipe out certain nations because Israel MUST survive as the Messiah was coming through that line. Other nations sacrificing their infants (kind of like America does today even as infants are born) were becoming so corrupt that they also endangered God's people by their culture.

Because of Christ, any man, woman or child from any nation can freely come to God by receiving Him. Everything changed.

Finally you said Muhammad was peaceful and then later he became more aggressive. Thats has probably something to do with his success rather than failure as the Meccans became to take him more seriously.

You mean as he returned slaughtering people that rejected him on the way? Yeah, that might have had an impact.

Finally they decided the best to stop the influence of the Koran is to kill him. Is this not what the Jews did to Jesus and what the Pharoah tried to do with Moses? So why should Muhammad be any different?

The difference between Christ and Mohammad is huge. Christ died for us. Mohammad teaches the only sure way to heaven is to die fighting for Allah. What has light to do with darkness?

So the issue here is much bigger than a bunch of problematic hadiths. Thats is easy to solve, just cast them away.

And so they are hidden until all who accept Allah peacefully, do. Cloak and dagger.

But the contradictions and abrogations are diffcult. Thats why the Sunni orthodoxy will never accept the Koranist because in their hadiths is the 5 pillars of Islam, the concept of consensus and the consept of abrogation. Without those there will be no shariah and no unified dogma and seperate identity that can distinguish them from Jews and Christians.

So a "Koranist" doesn't practice the five pillars? Really? Seriously watching for an answer for this one. Is a "Koranist" considered a Muslim?

 

[Baruch Menachem]

For most Muslim, it is just a matter of RTFM

 

[ekrem]

Thanks Baruch. Does that mean a Muslim doesn't need to fast during Ramadan since it's not found in the Qur'an? At least I've never seen it there, please tell me the verse if it is, thanks.

It's mentioned several times in the Bakara Sure.
For example Ayet 185 says literrally:
Those who reach month of Ramadan shall fast.

 

[Hister]

Are you allowed to crap during the day during Ramadan?

 

[Ravi]

Hello Everyone,

We’re starting a new initiative to judge the interest in a Halal fast food restaurant in the U.S.
To do this, we’ve put together a very short survey that will take under 5 minutes to complete. We really feel that we can make a difference but we need your help. Please pass this survey on to anyone who you believe this survey concerns. We would like to thank you in advance for your time and honest responses! We hope to hear from you soon!

Quick fast food survey

Thank you!
Kelsey

Hey Kelsey, isn't it true that filling out your survey allows you to track the internet moves of anyone doing it? I have to admit that makes me uncomfortable, since I have no idea who you are.

Thanks anyway.

 

[Bigmo]

The reason I ask is, the Quran doesn't outline many of the required practices of Islam.

Many Muslims will claim everything you need to know about Islam is in the Quran. They don't want the other books and the violence within them to be seen by the west.

I realize there are many Muslims born in the west that know little about Islam, they bought into the "religion of peace" and will continue to claim that it is. Even though the Quran OBSESSES over the difference of believers and unbelievers of Allah, from cover to cover in the Qur'an. Talk about non-unity.

Islam is all about Mohammed, even the prayer to convert to Islam claims that Mohammed is the prophet. Mohammed failed at gaining converts peacefully but grew after becoming political and military. It's why "Islam" is so much more than a religion. It's meant to dominate everything in a person's life.

How to behave, how to worship, those are found in the Sira, the life of Mohammad. And in that Sira are the major acts of violence that many in the Middle East would rather the West had no idea of.

It includes all the acts of being deceptive, of coming in peace, of enforcing with violence

There are many kinds of hadiths. The hadiths you talk about are actually very few and are only used by terrorists. Most Muslims never heard of these hadiths and they can easily say "well not all hadiths are true". And there is really no difficulty in Muslims simply casting some of their hadiths away and leaving Sunni Islam intact. But for someone like me there are much more dangerous hadiths like the 5 pillar of Islam hadith. It may not be problematic for a Western audience but to me its more dangerous to establish pillars of a religion like Islam outside the Koran.

So for a Koranist, its not just violent of women bashing hadiths thats the problem but rather the contradictions and the abrogation hadiths. There are even hadiths that attack the Koran and claims verses are missing and were lost.

When I speak of hadiths, I'm speaking of the ones in the Sira, the oldest writings on record of the Life of Mohammad, studied and respected by clerics in the Middle East. The foundation for many of the beliefs of Islam and sharia law. The book that "moderate" Muslims of the east would rather the west had no knowledge of.



The OT has isolated directions from God to wipe out certain nations because Israel MUST survive as the Messiah was coming through that line. Other nations sacrificing their infants (kind of like America does today even as infants are born) were becoming so corrupt that they also endangered God's people by their culture.

Because of Christ, any man, woman or child from any nation can freely come to God by receiving Him. Everything changed.



You mean as he returned slaughtering people that rejected him on the way? Yeah, that might have had an impact.



The difference between Christ and Mohammad is huge. Christ died for us. Mohammad teaches the only sure way to heaven is to die fighting for Allah. What has light to do with darkness?

So the issue here is much bigger than a bunch of problematic hadiths. Thats is easy to solve, just cast them away.

And so they are hidden until all who accept Allah peacefully, do. Cloak and dagger.

But the contradictions and abrogations are diffcult. Thats why the Sunni orthodoxy will never accept the Koranist because in their hadiths is the 5 pillars of Islam, the concept of consensus and the consept of abrogation. Without those there will be no shariah and no unified dogma and seperate identity that can distinguish them from Jews and Christians.

So a "Koranist" doesn't practice the five pillars? Really? Seriously watching for an answer for this one. Is a "Koranist" considered a Muslim?

No. Sunni or even Shia clerics would not consider a Koranist as a "Muslim".

Qur'an alone Muslims, also known as Quranis or Quranists, are Muslims who follow the Qur'an and consider it to be the only sacred text in Islam. They are mostly progressive Muslims, rejecting all the Hadith and Sunnah, libraries compiled by later scholars who catalogued narratives of what the Prophet Muhammad is reported to have said and done, which are considered essential for the Islamic faith and practiced by traditional Islamic scholars.

Etymology
Quranists may be referred to in various ways, for example Qur'āniyūn (Arabic: قرآنيون&#8206 and Ahl al-Qur'ān/ahle Qur'an (Arabic: أهل القران&#8206, both translating to "Quranites" (which is also used in English), Submitters, and usually by their opponents munkiru al-hadīth (Arabic: منكروا الحديث&#8206 (i.e. "negators of Hadith" / "hadith rejectors") as well as other terms.[1]

[edit] Doctrine
Quranists generally consider themselves to simply be "Muslims". They do not think of themselves as belonging to a sect, like Sunni or Shia, as they do not accept any of the narratives beside the Qur'an.

While Quranists do not necessarily reject the authenticity of all Hadith, they universally reject the authoritative status applied to Hadith by orthodox Muslims, therefore opposing punishments dictated only by Hadith, such as the death penalty for apostates and Stoning.

The extent to which Quranists reject the authenticity of the Hadith varies, but the more established groups have thoroughly criticised the authenticity of the Hadith and refused it for many reasons, the most prevalent being that Hadith was not recorded in written form until more than two centuries after the death of the prophet Muhammed.

Quranists also support human rights and promote reinterpreting Islam as "a belief system committed to the liberal values of a democratic world"[2].

[edit] Prevalence/ Apostasy claims
As many Quranists have a very individualistic interpretation of the Qur'an, rejecting sectarianism and organised religion as a general rule, it is difficult to gather an accurate estimate of the number of Quranists in the world today by doing a study of the Quranist organisations that exist. Another difficulty in determining their prevalence is the possible fear of persecution due to being regarded as apostates and therefore deserving of the death penalty by many traditional scholars like Yousef Elbadry[3], Mahmoud Ashour, Mohammed Rafat Othman and Mustafa Al-Shagaa[4].

From wikipedia


I think that answers ur question.

 

[deserter]

First, get rid of all your toilet paper.

f u guys WERE wise I'ld speak wisely , but ALAS

what kind of pain you feel? that makes you open fire aimlessly !

LONG TIME I questioned the matter of the misleaded west but through this forum

I can say that only the best of you will be able to communicate with us

you are manipulated miserably

 

[Hister]

First, get rid of all your toilet paper.

f u guys WERE wise I'ld speak wisely , but ALAS

what kind of pain you feel? that makes you open fire aimlessly !

LONG TIME I questioned the matter of the misleaded west but through this forum

I can say that only the best of you will be able to communicate with us

you are manipulated miserably

Second, lose the deodorant.