Question about Islam and the Qu'ran

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by JenT, Sep 7, 2010.

  1. JenT
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    JenT God lead our troops

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    Where does it say how to convert to Islam in the Qu'ran / Koran? And where does it say how to fast for Ramadan? Thanks.

    (looks around) is Kalam still here? Or Sunni?
     
  2. JenT
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    JenT God lead our troops

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    Saw Sunni Man on another post lately so I know they're here, Mr. Fitnah have you locked them in a closet again?
     
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  3. AllieBaba
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    JenT is going native?
     
  4. Baruch Menachem
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  5. Hister
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    First, get rid of all your toilet paper.
     
  6. JenT
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    JenT God lead our troops

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    The reason I ask is, the Quran doesn't outline many of the required practices of Islam.

    Many Muslims will claim everything you need to know about Islam is in the Quran. They don't want the other books and the violence within them to be seen by the west.

    I realize there are many Muslims born in the west that know little about Islam, they bought into the "religion of peace" and will continue to claim that it is. Even though the Quran OBSESSES over the difference of believers and unbelievers of Allah, from cover to cover in the Qur'an. Talk about non-unity.

    Islam is all about Mohammed, even the prayer to convert to Islam claims that Mohammed is the prophet. Mohammed failed at gaining converts peacefully but grew after becoming political and military. It's why "Islam" is so much more than a religion. It's meant to dominate everything in a person's life.

    How to behave, how to worship, those are found in the Sira, the life of Mohammad. And in that Sira are the major acts of violence that many in the Middle East would rather the West had no idea of.

    It includes all the acts of being deceptive, of coming in peace, of enforcing with violence
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2010
  7. Baruch Menachem
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    The Koran is a response, much like Christianity, to religious abuses of the time and place.

    the obligations are light, adherence is easy. Ramadan is a fast, but in winter it is not so onerous as it is in summer.

    As a response, it is somewhat silly in places. Like the Muslim calendar is short by 17 days per year, which means the season rotate during the calendar. This is in response to religions decreeing "jubilee" months whenever the king was short on cash, and needed an extra month to pay his bills. Or really flaky calendars like the Jewish calendar, which is pretty accurate on a time scale of a hundred years, but from year to year with its insertion of jubilee months on weird rotating basis will have months zip back and forth. Jewish new year zips back and forth from mid september to late october according to the christian calendar.

    It is also a response to casuistry, where there is fancy arguing over the meaning of the book, in order to get out of the obligations of the faith. Islam has no place for weird concepts like indulgences and the like.

    The basic concept is that Gd has sent prophets down on several occasions, and each time organized churches have corrupted the basic teachings. Islam is a return to the word of Gd, uncorrupted.

    As far as Islam is concerned, you read the book, follow the rules, you are converted.
     
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  8. JenT
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    JenT God lead our troops

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    Thanks Baruch. Does that mean a Muslim doesn't need to fast during Ramadan since it's not found in the Qur'an? At least I've never seen it there, please tell me the verse if it is, thanks.
     
  9. Bigmo
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    There are many kinds of hadiths. The hadiths you talk about are actually very few and are only used by terrorists. Most Muslims never heard of these hadiths and they can easily say "well not all hadiths are true". And there is really no difficulty in Muslims simply casting some of their hadiths away and leaving Sunni Islam intact. But for someone like me there are much more dangerous hadiths like the 5 pillar of Islam hadith. It may not be problematic for a Western audience but to me its more dangerous to establish pillars of a religion like Islam outside the Koran.

    So for a Koranist, its not just violent of women bashing hadiths thats the problem but rather the contradictions and the abrogation hadiths. There are even hadiths that attack the Koran and claims verses are missing and were lost.

    Plus Western audience have the problem that there are far more violent passages in the OT than there are in hadiths.

    Finally you said Muhammad was peaceful and then later he became more aggressive. Thats has probably something to do with his success rather than failure as the Meccans became to take him more seriously. Finally they decided the best to stop the influence of the Koran is to kill him. Is this not what the Jews did to Jesus and what the Pharoah tried to do with Moses? So why should Muhammad be any different?

    So the issue here is much bigger than a bunch of problematic hadiths. Thats is easy to solve, just cast them away. But the contradictions and abrogations are diffcult. Thats why the Sunni orthodoxy will never accept the Koranist because in their hadiths is the 5 pillars of Islam, the concept of consensus and the consept of abrogation. Without those there will be no shariah and no unified dogma and seperate identity that can distinguish them from Jews and Christians.

    The Koran uses the criteria of faith in God and judgement day to distinguish. Koran is non sectarian.
     
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  10. JenT
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    JenT God lead our troops

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    When I speak of hadiths, I'm speaking of the ones in the Sira, the oldest writings on record of the Life of Mohammad, studied and respected by clerics in the Middle East. The foundation for many of the beliefs of Islam and sharia law. The book that "moderate" Muslims of the east would rather the west had no knowledge of.

    The OT has isolated directions from God to wipe out certain nations because Israel MUST survive as the Messiah was coming through that line. Other nations sacrificing their infants (kind of like America does today even as infants are born) were becoming so corrupt that they also endangered God's people by their culture.

    Because of Christ, any man, woman or child from any nation can freely come to God by receiving Him. Everything changed.

    You mean as he returned slaughtering people that rejected him on the way? Yeah, that might have had an impact.

    The difference between Christ and Mohammad is huge. Christ died for us. Mohammad teaches the only sure way to heaven is to die fighting for Allah. What has light to do with darkness?

    And so they are hidden until all who accept Allah peacefully, do. Cloak and dagger.

    So a "Koranist" doesn't practice the five pillars? Really? Seriously watching for an answer for this one. Is a "Koranist" considered a Muslim?
     

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