Quandry.....Synthetic oil, or not? For cars

[Bonnie]

What's the consensus on this? Benefits, pitfalls etc..?

 

[dmp]

No pitfalls...if you can afford the extra money, Use Mobil1 Synth. More importantly, your filter. At ALL costs, stay away from Fram products.

They suck.

 

[dmp]

Are you one of those who goes 6,000 miles and remembered you needed an oil change a couple thousand miles ago? then go synthetic!

but - a synth w/ a good filter will go 6000 miles that's half as many oil changes

 

[Bonnie]

Depends on how much you want to spend at oil change time. Synthetics are more but serves the same purpose as your average oil. The benefits to the synthetic though is it wont burn away nearly as fast as regular nor turn into a mess (sludge) in the crankcase. the ambient temps of the synthetics is also superior withstanding above and below the norm in comparison to regular oils.

Bottom line - I would use regular for cost savings if you do normal maintenance intervals as it will be just as effective!

Are you one of those who goes 6,000 miles and remembered you needed an oil change a couple thousand miles ago? then go synthetic!

Laughing....I might be one of those people who for the most part remembers to change my oil every 3000 miles but occasionally forgets and does go over 5000
Im not worried about the cost difference, I just want to protect my engine. I had heard that once you start using synthetic it's best to stay with it, is that true?

 

[Bonnie]

but - a synth w/ a good filter will go 6000 miles that's half as many oil changes

So synthetic but no Fram filters?

 

[dmp]

So synthetic but no Fram filters?

Good reading...here's the bottom line:

All of this information can be a bit overwhelming. When it comes down to it, all of the lower-priced filters ($5 or below) have they ups and downs. In reality, there are only five different manufacturers available. Here are the low-cost filters that I feel safe using, based on all this information (in alphabetical order): AC Delco, Purolator, and Wix. Here are my reasons for each:

I like the deep pleats of the AC Delco’s filter element and the fact that it is not weak like the Champion. I also like the way that the anti-drainback valve diaphram makes a positive seal to the filter cartridge and to the bypass valve, which sort of “snaps” into the diaphram. The fact that the bypass valve seats against the backplate metal-to-metal is not a big deal. It probably doesn’t leak anyway, but if it does, only clean oil can get back into the pan. In case you haven’t noticed, I like this filter. It is the best filter that you can buy for $3.

The Purolator is a very solid design. It seems to have the toughest paper filter element of them all and the bypass valve is built right into the cartridge. There are no internal sealing problems with this filter at all. I wish the inner diameter of the cartridge was smaller so that the pleats could be fewer and deeper. The Premium Plus version looks like it flows fine, but the Pure One or Motorcraft versions seem to be packed a bit too tightly. That assembly string still bothers me somewhat, but not enough to avoid these well-made filters completely. My ‘88 Shadow ES (as of 2/24/99) has a Purolator Premium Plus in it right now. I plan to cut it open and see how it holds up at the next oil change.

I don’t care for the Champion filters. The filter elements are way too fragile to give me much confidence in them. That, along with the rusty backplates, makes me shy away from them. Some decent filter material and a little oil used during assembly would make this into a fine filter. Like the Purolator, I like how the bypass valve is built right into the filter cartridge. This filter has no internal sealing problems, either. Even so, I won’t be using them.

The Wix filter is a very well made filter. My praise goes to Dana for putting some effort into it. Aside from being a stronger case, it also uses a much better filter element (about the same as the AC Delco). Like the AC Delco, it also has a minor internal sealing problem. In this case, the bypass valve has a metal-to-metal seal to the filter cartridge. It probably doesn’t really leak either, but if it did, dirty oil could get to the clean side of the filter. Otherwise it is a good filter. Given the choice between the Wix and the AC Delco at the same cost, I'd pick one while blind-folded. However, the Wix is about twice the price, so...

If money is no object, I would go with the Mobil 1. Although it has Champion internals, it has a really tough synthetic fiber filter element, which is the Champion’s only major downfall. The element is stronger and thicker than the Purolator, but they claim that it flows just as good as paper. As with the other low-end Wix filters, it has no internal sealing problems. The $10 price tag is a bit steep, but it is the best filter you can buy retail. Watch for “Mobil 1 Oil Change” sales, which includes 5 quarts of Mobil 1 synthetic oil and a Mobil 1 filter. Granted, there are probably better filters available through mail order, but I haven't tested those yet...

I reserve the right to change my opinion at any time. It could easily change if another filter (or one of the filters I am waiting on) comes around and is better.

It should be clear that Mopar filters are really nothing special. Unless you are trying to have a perfect restoration and need that Mopar logo, there is no reason why you should be buying Mopar oil filters. Most of them seem to currently be Purolators or Champions, but that could change at any time.

See the AC Delco, Champion, Fram, Purolator, and Wix sections for information on how to identify these manufacturers by looking at the backplate. The tell-tale signs are always there.

http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil_filter_study/

 

[Bonnie]

Thank you guys....Im going to take the advice to heart!
Synthetic it is

 

[Merlin1047]

What's the consensus on this? Benefits, pitfalls etc..?

Consumer's Report magazine did a study on the relative merits of regular versus synthetic oil some years ago (6 to eight years). They tested several engines to 100,00 miles and came to the conclusion that under most normal applications such as in an automobile, synthetic oil is a complete waste of money. They found that synthetic oil did not perform demonstrably better if a routine maintenance schedule was observed. That means changing the oil and filter at the manufacturer's prescribed intervals.

Synthetic oil does have an advantage when used in a high temperature environment such as in air-cooled engines. Synthetics retained their viscosity longer than normal oil and tended to be less prone to burning or breakdown when subjected to high temperatures. I use synthetic oil in the generator on the motor home because that engine is air-cooled. Also on the lawn mower, chain saw, weed trimmer - anything that runs at very high temperatures. I've used regular oil in every motor vehicle engine I've ever owned and had no lubrication related problems - ever.

Basically, if you put synthetic oil into a water-cooled automobile engine you're spending three to five times more than you should and the increase in protection is insignificant.

 

[dmp]

...except for the fact sythetics today go for 6-10K miles between changes...and protect better than dino, there's little difference

 

[Merlin1047]

...except for the fact sythetics today go for 6-10K miles between changes...and protect better than dino, there's little difference

Perhaps, but driving beyond the recommended oil change interval may void your warranty (if that is an issue). Also, running that long without changing the oil tends to cause an accumulation of particulate matter. That is ultimately what causes the most damaging wear to an engine. No oil, regardless of how slick it may be, can perform its function once it has become contaminated.

 

[Bonnie]

So then I should use synthetic oil only if I am consistent with every 3 thousand mile oil changes? My car is new so I don't want to void the warantee.

 

[dmp]

So then I should use synthetic oil only if I am consistent with every 3 thousand mile oil changes? My car is new so I don't want to void the warantee.

no - if you plan on violating the 3000 mile 'rule', use synthetic...

Fwiw, a large number of new cars, such as the Mini Cooper, don't call for the first oil change till 10-12k miles.

Ask your dealer, or read your owner's manual

 

[dmp]

Perhaps, but driving beyond the recommended oil change interval may void your warranty (if that is an issue). Also, running that long without changing the oil tends to cause an accumulation of particulate matter. That is ultimately what causes the most damaging wear to an engine. No oil, regardless of how slick it may be, can perform its function once it has become contaminated.

Change the oil every 5-6K is fine - for a good synth....just use a good quality filter, or change the filter - not the entire oil.

 

[Merlin1047]

So then I should use synthetic oil only if I am consistent with every 3 thousand mile oil changes? My car is new so I don't want to void the warantee.

Bonnie, you're going to pay between 4.50 to 5.95 for a quart of synthetic oil. Premium grade 10w30 to 10w50 weight petroleum based oil will cost around 1.50 to 2.00 per quart.

If your car takes five quarts per oil change, you will spend between $22.50 to $29.75 for synthetic oil as opposed to $7.50 to $10.00 for petroleum based oil each time you have the oil changed.

Assume you drive 12000 miles per year. If you use synthetic oil and change oil every 6000 miles, you will spend between $45.00 and $59.50 per year. If you use petroleum based oil and change every 3000 miles you will spend between $30.00 - $40.00 per year. Add the price of two additional oil filters and the price for petroleum based oil comes to 38 - 48 bucks per year.

So if you decide to use synthetics you need to go to the greater oil change interval otherwise it makes no sense at all to use a synthetic because the performance of a synthetic oil in an automobile engine is not significantly better than petroleum based oil. The only real advantage of a synthetic in this case is its extended service life.

But make sure you check your owner's manual to verify that you won't run into warranty problems by exceeding the recommended oil change interval.

Bottom line - use synthetics if you're going to change oil every 6000 miles. Use petroleum based oil if you're going to change every 3000.

 

[007]

Perhaps, but driving beyond the recommended oil change interval may void your warranty (if that is an issue). Also, running that long without changing the oil tends to cause an accumulation of particulate matter. That is ultimately what causes the most damaging wear to an engine. No oil, regardless of how slick it may be, can perform its function once it has become contaminated.

Actually, most engine damage happens at start up. That brief period when all the oil has dripped down off of parts, and the oil pressure hasn't built back up yet. But that doesn't negate the fact the dirty oil also wears engine parts. Oils are constantly going through changes. Most oils today have additives that will "suspend" dirt in it, keeping it away from surfaces.

Actually, what synthetics are is more of a labratory created oil than natural. What they do do well is withstand heat better than regular oil, as already mentioned, but more importantly than that, they resist being pushed out from between load bearing surfaces, such as bearings, bushings, and shims. Any engine part that may endure extreme pressures, i.e., connecting rod bushings/bearings, wrist pin bushings/bearings, crank shaft bearings, etc., will benefit greatly from a synthetic oil.

Also don't put synthetic in an old engine. An old engine needs the thickness of regular oil to dampen the load between worn out parts, whereas new engines are machined to such close tolerances, very little oil cushion is needed. Synthetics are perfect for newer engines.

 

[dmp]

Bottom line - use synthetics if you're going to change oil every 6000 miles. Use petroleum based oil if you're going to change every 3000.

Another factor - Synthetics will reduce friction a greater amount than Dino oils...Increased (measurable on some cars) performance, plus an engine which may last 250K miles, instead of maybe 200K miles on dino oil - a claim which is unprovable I know...there are MANY factors invovled.

I use sythetics on my car, a blend on my wife's car. I want the most protection I can get from an oil. For her car? Eh...we don't like her car anyway.

 

[dmp]

Actually, most engine damage happens at start up. That brief period when all the oil has dripped down off of parts, and the oil pressure hasn't built back up yet. But that doesn't negate the fact the dirty oil also wears engine parts. Oils are constantly going through changes. Most oils today have additives that will "suspend" dirt in it, keeping it away from surfaces.

A HUGE point - which is why I only buy filters with the 'anti-oil-drainback' valve. Keeps oil in the filter, so it can be sent quickly to the parts that need it most.

 

[drowe]

Just a little tip from the dummy mech knuckle-draggin wrench monkey community:

Unless you just don't want piston seals, never put aircraft engine oil (MIL-L-23699) in a car engine...bad things WILL happen.

 

[dmp]

Just a little tip from the dummy mech knuckle-draggin wrench monkey community:

Unless you just don't want piston seals, never put aircraft engine oil (MIL-PRF-23699) in a car engine...bad things WILL happen.

what are piston seals? Rings, you mean?

 

[007]

what are piston seals? Rings, you mean?

LOL!! I have to ask that myself... "what are pistion seals"? Are they something new? :happy2: