Quadraplegic Illegal Returned To Mexico Against His Will

[José]

Originally posted by FifthColumn
You mean like the way Germany and Japan prospered after the US bombed them down to the ground?

No, I mean like Cuba and Puerto Rico continued to be third world countries after being ruled like US colonies for over 50 years.

Germany and Japan were already highly developed first world countries long before America, Britain and Russia bombed them to bits. The only thing America did was replace their authoritarian political structures by democratic ones and lend them money so that they could rebuild their economy themselves.

America's track record regarding economic development among its third world colonies is an abysmal failure.

CUBA, PUERTO RICO, LIBERIA, IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN... you name it.

So again:

Those who demand economic development from others have a MORAL OBLIGATION to be able to create it in their own colonies.

 

[High_Gravity]

Maybe they should make a law that allows the authorities to extradite the employer along with his worker back to Mexico? I bet the amount of people who hire illegals will plummet.

 

[uscitizen]

[/QUOTFor almost four months, doctors and nurses at Advocate Christ Medical Center cared for the young Mexican laborer who had fallen from a roof and lost the ability to speak, breathe or move most parts of his body.

But Quelino Ojeda Jimenez was in the U.S. illegally, and just before Christmas he was taken from the Oak Lawn hospital, loaded on an air ambulance and flown to Oaxaca, capital of the Mexican state where he was born.

His abrupt departure, which Ojeda says was undertaken without his consent, outraged a group of Mexicans living in Chicago who had rallied to his aid, tending to him in the hospital and encouraging him not to give up.

Florinda Marcial, one of his frequent caregivers, said she pleaded with authorities to stop as Ojeda was rolled away on a gurney, dressed in a hospital gown, crying. Authorities at the Mexican Consulate in Chicago also said they tried to intervene.

"They threw him out like he was a piece of garbage," said Horacio Esparza, a disability rights advocate who runs the Progress Center for Independent Living in Forest Park.

Now, the 20-year-old man is in a Mexican hospital that is so resource-poor that it is reusing filters for the breathing machine needed to keep him alive. After an investigation completed late last week, Advocate Health Care — the largest hospital network in Illinois — acknowledged it never obtained Ojeda's permission to transfer him to Mexico.

Undocumented quadriplegic returned to Mexico from Chicago area - chicagotribune.com

Please read the linked article if you have time; I think the tone of it is worth discussing.

My reaction is, this should not have happened. The man was almost certainly working without legally-required safety equipment and the subcontractor who hired him should not have found it so easy to evade its workers' compensation obligations.

But it did happen. If the injured man has any legal remedies here, by all means I hope he pursues them. However, he was not here legally, his condition was stable and he was moved in a medically safe fashion. I think returning him to Mexico was not only permissible, it was obligatory.

What say you? Should a serious injury in the US result in some sort of ad hoc green card for the patient?

Nothing happened to the employer?

No no ad hoc green card for illegals if they injure themselves here.
But very strict punishment for those who hire illegals and payment for their injuries in cases like this one appears to be.

 

[uscitizen]

Maybe they should make a law that allows the authorities to extradite the employer along with his worker back to Mexico? I bet the amount of people who hire illegals will plummet.

substantial fines and revocation of business liscences on 3rd offense.
If the need is there someone else will open a business or expand one and hre employees. LEGAL ones.

 

[Madeline]

Originally posted by FifthColumn
You mean like the way Germany and Japan prospered after the US bombed them down to the ground?

No, I mean like Cuba and Puerto Rico continued to be third world countries after being ruled like US colonies for over 50 years.

Germany and Japan were already highly developed first world countries long before America, Britain and Russia bombed them to bits. The only thing America did was replace their authoritarian political structures by democratic ones and lend them money so that they could rebuild their economy themselves.

America's track record regarding economic development among its third world colonies is an abysmal failure.

CUBA, PUERTO RICO, LIBERIA, IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN... you name it.

So again:

Those who demand economic development from others have a MORAL OBLIGATION to be able to create it in their own colonies.

Jose', Mexico is not a US colony. How are we any more responsible for its upkeep than we are for the upkeep of Panama? Or New Zealand?

I think the well-being of the US is tied to the well-being of Mexico, and that it makes sense (and is the humanitarian thing to do) for the US to help Mexico get off its knees. But that does not include keeping Mexican quadreplegics who are here illegally and have no insurance in the best hospitals we have at taxpayer expense.

I'm sorry, but it just doesn't.

 

[José]

Originally posted by uscitizen
Nothing happened to the employer?

Dude... Corporate america is one of the main reasons (but not the only one) we don't see mass deportations of illegals in the US.

The guys are so powerful they prevent America from enforcing her own immigration laws and you want to put them in jail?

 

[Madeline]

I do, Jose'...but I agree, the odds are against that happening.

 

[José]

Originally posted by FifthColumn
You mean like the way Germany and Japan prospered after the US bombed them down to the ground?

No, I mean like Cuba and Puerto Rico continued to be third world countries after being ruled like US colonies for over 50 years.

Germany and Japan were already highly developed first world countries long before America, Britain and Russia bombed them to bits. The only thing America did was replace their authoritarian political structures by democratic ones and lend them money so that they could rebuild their economy themselves.

America's track record regarding economic development among its third world colonies is an abysmal failure.

CUBA, PUERTO RICO, LIBERIA, IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN... you name it.

So again:

Those who demand economic development from others have a MORAL OBLIGATION to be able to create it in their own colonies.

Jose', Mexico is not a US colony. How are we any more responsible for its upkeep than we are for the upkeep of Panama? Or New Zealand?

I think the well-being of the US is tied to the well-being of Mexico, and that it makes sense (and is the humanitarian thing to do) for the US to help Mexico get off its knees. But that does not include keeping Mexican quadreplegics who are here illegally and have no insurance in the best hospitals we have at taxpayer expense.

I'm sorry, but it just doesn't.

I agree entirely, Madeline...

I am the first one to state over and over that it is a tremendous injustice to ask America to become a kind of Mother Theresa of Latin America housing and feeding millions of poor Mexicans, Guatemalans, Cubans, etc, etc...

A bit of context for you... this whole debate on economic development started when I replied to the following statement:

Angelhair
BTW - it's high time those countries got their act together and did something for THEIR people -

Here we have an american citizen demanding from Latin American governments the same economic development America failed miserably to bring to Cuba and Puerto Rico during the first half of the last century and is failing miserably to bring to Afghanistan and Iraq now.

A bit hypocritical, dont you think?

 

[Madeline]

Originally posted by Big Fitz
This is part of why I respect you as a liberal Madeline. You get this.

Madeline is OK in my book too. I agree with 99% of what she says. The right to deport illegals, the adverse effects their presence cause in the US, etc, etc...

I just sense in her posts a veiled, hidden hostility towards Mexico that is totally unwarranted. The responsibilty for solving the problem of illegal aliens in America lies squarely on the US government.

Madeline has a PHd on the suffering of ethnic minorities in the USA. She's constantly creating threads about the trials of native and african americans.

So let's teach Madeline a bit about the History of Mexico. Let's teach her how this country was victimised by a bunch of anglo traitors and illegal americans who joined forces to perpetrate the second biggest landgrab in the history of the American Continent.

Let's teach her that Mexico was the victim of a brutal war of aggression waged by the US army that cost that country half of its territory.

Let's teach her that if America could fulfill her dream of becoming a continental country that dream was built on the blood and suffering of Mexico.

Maybe then she will drop her ignorant, childish, callous portrayal of Mexico as a nation that causes harm to the USA and will see that from a historical perspective Mexico was the first one to be victimised.

I'm not quite the ignorant prig you suspect me of being, Jose'. I can do a full 45 minutes on the evils of the RCC in California and the wretched Mission systems. And I harbor no ill will toward anyone based only on their nationality....I'm even a fan of much of Mexico's culture.

But I'll admit this much: I am scared to death of the rising crime level in Mexico and by Mexican gangs in the US. I am also appalled at the idea that anyone could believe that now, with unemployment here at 10% (and much, much higher for many Americans) the way to solve the problems of poverty in Mexico is to import an entire generation of Mexican poor here.

I like you, and I think you try hard to be fair. So do I. But just like any other human, when threatened, I will protect my loved ones and my home first.

 

[Againsheila]

[/QUOTFor almost four months, doctors and nurses at Advocate Christ Medical Center cared for the young Mexican laborer who had fallen from a roof and lost the ability to speak, breathe or move most parts of his body.

But Quelino Ojeda Jimenez was in the U.S. illegally, and just before Christmas he was taken from the Oak Lawn hospital, loaded on an air ambulance and flown to Oaxaca, capital of the Mexican state where he was born.

His abrupt departure, which Ojeda says was undertaken without his consent, outraged a group of Mexicans living in Chicago who had rallied to his aid, tending to him in the hospital and encouraging him not to give up.

Florinda Marcial, one of his frequent caregivers, said she pleaded with authorities to stop as Ojeda was rolled away on a gurney, dressed in a hospital gown, crying. Authorities at the Mexican Consulate in Chicago also said they tried to intervene.

"They threw him out like he was a piece of garbage," said Horacio Esparza, a disability rights advocate who runs the Progress Center for Independent Living in Forest Park.

Now, the 20-year-old man is in a Mexican hospital that is so resource-poor that it is reusing filters for the breathing machine needed to keep him alive. After an investigation completed late last week, Advocate Health Care — the largest hospital network in Illinois — acknowledged it never obtained Ojeda's permission to transfer him to Mexico.

Undocumented quadriplegic returned to Mexico from Chicago area - chicagotribune.com

Please read the linked article if you have time; I think the tone of it is worth discussing.

My reaction is, this should not have happened. The man was almost certainly working without legally-required safety equipment and the subcontractor who hired him should not have found it so easy to evade its workers' compensation obligations.

But it did happen. If the injured man has any legal remedies here, by all means I hope he pursues them. However, he was not here legally, his condition was stable and he was moved in a medically safe fashion. I think returning him to Mexico was not only permissible, it was obligatory.

What say you? Should a serious injury in the US result in some sort of ad hoc green card for the patient?

Unless he was up on his own roof, the guy who hired him should be the one paying for his care.

 

[Madeline]

Jose' wrote:

Here we have an american citizen demanding from Latin American governments the same economic development America failed miserably to bring to Cuba and Puerto Rico during the first half of the last century and is failing miserably to bring to Afghanistan and Iraq now.

A bit hypocritical, dont you think?

I'm fairly certain Cuba was never a US protectorate, but Puerto Rico certainly is. I grew up in New York and feel reasonably conversant with the issues there. The way the US has exploited that nation's natural resources and failed to invest any of the profits is horrible, I agree.

You can level some of the same charges at the US as to Guam, the Phillipines and other Pacific island nations too.

I never said the US was perfect, but -- and this is a big one, Jose' -- Puerto Ricans are US citizens. They are free to enter the country and make a life here, if they wish. The US has a right to control its borders, to admit all the Cubans or New Zealanders it wishes but yet deny visas to most Mexicans who apply.

No one has a right to US citizenship except US citizens.

 

[High_Gravity]

If I got hurt while working in Mexico illegally, would their government pay for my care?

 

[AllieBaba]

Originally posted by WillowTree
we don't owe anyone a green card do we? or American citizenship? Wanting ain't always gettin.

Couldn't have said it better myself... As a sovereign nation, America is totally free to put a 100 year freeze on any kind of immigration if the american people deems this measure to be appropriate.

That won't happen; that's a fascist strategy.

 

[AllieBaba]

If I got hurt while working in Mexico illegally, would their government pay for my care?

No, and if you were unlucky enough to go to the hospital there and get caught, they would rob you, then put your sick ass into a wheelbarrow, push you across the border, and dump you there.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Madeline
I'm fairly certain Cuba was never a US protectorate.

After the Spanish-American War, Spain and the United States signed the Treaty of Paris (1898), by which Spain ceded Puerto Rico, the Philippines, and Guam to the United States for the sum of $20 million.[41] Under the same treaty, Spain relinquished all claim of sovereignty over Cuba.

Cuba gained formal independence from the U.S. on May 20, 1902, as the Republic of Cuba. Under Cuba's new constitution, the U.S. retained the right to intervene in Cuban affairs and to supervise its finances and foreign relations.

Cuba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For the third time:

Those who were/are unable to bring economic prosperity to their own colonies, protectorates and satellite states have no any moral authority to demand it from others.

 

[High_Gravity]

If I got hurt while working in Mexico illegally, would their government pay for my care?

No, and if you were unlucky enough to go to the hospital there and get caught, they would rob you, then put your sick ass into a wheelbarrow, push you across the border, and dump you there.

Thats what I thought, so why are we expected to foot the bill for their illegal citizens?

 

[Madeline]

Originally posted by Madeline
I'm fairly certain Cuba was never a US protectorate.

After the Spanish-American War, Spain and the United States signed the Treaty of Paris (1898), by which Spain ceded Puerto Rico, the Philippines, and Guam to the United States for the sum of $20 million.[41] Under the same treaty, Spain relinquished all claim of sovereignty over Cuba.

Cuba gained formal independence from the U.S. on May 20, 1902, as the Republic of Cuba. Under Cuba's new constitution, the U.S. retained the right to intervene in Cuban affairs and to supervise its finances and foreign relations.

Cuba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For the third time:

Those who were/are unable to bring economic prosperity to their own colonies, protectorates and satellite states have no any moral authority to demand it from others.

So, by this reasoning, because the US exploited Puerto Rico, etc., it has no right to expect/demand/require Mexico to meet even the most basic needs of its own people? So I guess all that protesting we did to aggravate the former Soviet Union to behave better was ethically flawed as well? Boycotting South Africa to force it to end apartheid, also an ethical whoopsie IYO?

 

[xsited1]

Quadraplegic Illegal Returned To Mexico Against His Will

One of my best friends is Mexican living here legally. (He applied for citizenship years ago, but the USCIS is so broken it's a disgrace.)

Anyway, Mexicans usually stand with Mexicans when it comes to being in this country illegally. Why? Two words: Our Government. Our government has made it okay for them to come here for so long that they feel entitled to everything (and more) a citizen gets. And people who try to uphold the law by rightfully calling them criminals and deporting them are demonized by many as racists and xenophobes. (Obama and Napolitano are the latest examples.) Mixed signals like this from the government are not only destructive, but immoral.

Americans need to vote out anyone in favor of breaking the law. Remember that when 2012 comes around.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Madeline
So, by this reasoning, because the US exploited Puerto Rico, etc., it has no right to expect/demand/require Mexico to meet even the most basic needs of its own people? So I guess all that protesting we did to aggravate the former Soviet Union to behave better was ethically flawed as well? Boycotting South Africa to force it to end apartheid, also an ethical whoopsie IYO?

Institutionalised political repression (Soviet Union) and institutionalised racism (South Africa) are the direct results of government decisions and their dismantlement is TOTALLY within the power of any government whereas economic development is not and the former sovie states and South Africa themselves are living proof of this. Decades after the end of communism and apartheid they are still developing countries.

If economic development was the simple result of government decisions and was totally within the power of government decisions America would have turned Cuba, PR, Guam, Iraq and Afghanistan into decent places to live.

So yes, America should take a good look in the mirror and refrain from demanding economic development from its neighbors SPECIALLY WHEN IT'S DONE IN THE CONTEXT OF ANGELHAIR'S POST AS A WAY TO BLAME MEXICO FOR WHAT AMOUNTS TO THE MASSIVE DERELICTION OF DUTY OF THE US IMMIGRATION SERVICE.

 

[FifthColumn]

Originally posted by FifthColumn
You mean like the way Germany and Japan prospered after the US bombed them down to the ground?

No, I mean like Cuba and Puerto Rico continued to be third world countries after being ruled like US colonies for over 50 years.

Germany and Japan were already highly developed first world countries long before America, Britain and Russia bombed them to bits. The only thing America did was replace their authoritarian political structures by democratic ones and lend them money so that they could rebuild their economy themselves.

America's track record regarding economic development among its third world colonies is an abysmal failure.

CUBA, PUERTO RICO, LIBERIA, IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN... you name it.

So again:

Those who demand economic development from others have a MORAL OBLIGATION to be able to create it in their own colonies.

But those third world countries kicked the US out. YANKEE GO HOME. Then when they realize that they just kicked out their meal ticket, they start blaming the US for every sin under the sun. Just like spoiled brats, the US should have cut off Latin America a long time ago and let them all die a natural death. The way God intended!!