Pulpit Freedom Sunday.

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Thousands of Pastors across the nation took part in a challenge against the un-Constitutional Johnson amendment, (named for President Johnson who put forth the un-Constitutional amendment in 1954 while a Senator), today by publically endorsing specific candidates from the pulpits of their churchs. I am happy to say we participated in this and I preached the 8:15 service and my Pastor the 11:15 service and both of us preached against obama, the democratic party in general and various local democrats here in Md. Personally even though I could not bring myself to endorse a mormon from the pulpit, even though to defeat obama I will be voting for him and said so, I made it perfectly clear that a vote for obama was vote against America and that voting to support the liberal democrat party in this nation was a vote against the values of the Lord we serve. The sermon my Pastor led, along with thousands of others from around the nation, will be sent to the IRS this week to dare them to take legal action. The Constitution gives the Church not only tax exemption, but the right to freedom of speech and freedom from the govt dictating the content of what is said by the Pastor/Priest/Rabbi in performance of the duties his faith dictates. We'll now wait and see what the IRS wishes to do as our hope is to take these cases to the courts to clear up the fact that the govt cannot dictate content and cannot stifle the voice of the church in this nation's political process. The Constitution guarantees our church's freedoms, not some bureacrat in the IRS or some liberal facist democratic Senator.

This ignorant idiocy was already refuted in this failed thread:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-and-justice-system/251048-fight-restrictions-on-free-speech.html

As noted in that thread, there is no First Amendment issue in play, neither with regard to freedom of speech nor freedom concerning religion.

In Regan v. Taxation With Representation (1983), the Supreme Court upheld Section 501(c)(3) of the tax code, reasoning that the requirement to form two separate organizations – one charitable and tax exempt, the other engaged in political advocacy – does not violate the First Amendment.

Religious organization are therefore free to engage in political speech provided the separate political entity is established per Section 501(c)(4) of the Internal Revenue Code. Regan v. TWR has been upheld by subsequent Court rulings – it is considered settled law, and claims of government ‘violation’ of Free Speech baseless.

 

[RosieS]

Not only income taxes but property taxes, too. All you have to do is keep your mouth out of politics....but no.....

Separation of church and state. The church doesn't get to run, or run their collective mouths off about, the state. Prevention of theocracy is every American's birthright.

My government can't tell me what religion to follow. My religion can't tell me what giovernmental leaders to choose.

Simple concept totally lost on the OP.

Regards from Rosie

 

[jtpr312]

Churches and other religious organizations should lose their tax exempt status.

Never gonna happen.

Never say never. I would certainly vote for that...and support any court case challanging religious exemption.

Your "vote" and "support" are not enough to stand against the US Constitution and centuries of precedent. You're of course free to bloviate all you want on the topic though.

 

[bodecea]

Never gonna happen.

Never say never. I would certainly vote for that...and support any court case challanging religious exemption.

Your "vote" and "support" are not enough to stand against the US Constitution and centuries of precedent. You're of course free to bloviate all you want on the topic though.

Where in the Constitution does it give churches tax-exempt status?

 

[jtpr312]

Not only income taxes but property taxes, too. All you have to do is keep your mouth out of politics....but no.....

Separation of church and state. The church doesn't get to run, or run their collective mouths off about, the state. Prevention of theocracy is every American's birthright.

My government can't tell me what religion to follow. My religion can't tell me what giovernmental leaders to choose.Simple concept totally lost on the OP.

Regards from Rosie

Yes, they actually can, that's another right guaranteed them by the first amendment, the freedom of speech. What they cannot do is FORCE you to vote for anyone.

 

[occupied]

It seems you would rather be a foul mouthed, ignorant sounding juvenile than an adult. Run along now son, I haven't the time nor the patience to deal with a person with such stunted developmental problems.

LOL, you do not have the time or patience to discuss things on your own thread? It's halftime, you got plenty of time to explain how you want to have your political cake and eat it too.

Oh I have plenty of time to discuss anything with an intelligent adult, I don't have time for foul mouthed morons or idiots so crab yourself a beer and a sandwich during half time and don't waste any more of my time. Thanks.

Whatcha gonna do? Excommunicate me? Religious bigots like yourself are a cancer on the already cancerous political landscape, preaching political extremism from the pulpit is reprehensible and UnAmerican, turning a vote into a sin deserves the harshest possible penalty.

 

[Old Rocks]

LOL. The religious fruitcakes would tell you what you can or cannot say, what you can or cannot do in your bedroom, and which candidate for any office to vote for. In fact, the only freedom that they seem to be in favor of is that of corperations to skin you at every oppertunity.

 

[OKTexas]

Thousands of Pastors across the nation took part in a challenge against the un-Constitutional Johnson amendment, (named for President Johnson who put forth the un-Constitutional amendment in 1954 while a Senator), today by publically endorsing specific candidates from the pulpits of their churchs. I am happy to say we participated in this and I preached the 8:15 service and my Pastor the 11:15 service and both of us preached against obama, the democratic party in general and various local democrats here in Md. Personally even though I could not bring myself to endorse a mormon from the pulpit, even though to defeat obama I will be voting for him and said so, I made it perfectly clear that a vote for obama was vote against America and that voting to support the liberal democrat party in this nation was a vote against the values of the Lord we serve. The sermon my Pastor led, along with thousands of others from around the nation, will be sent to the IRS this week to dare them to take legal action. The Constitution gives the Church not only tax exemption, but the right to freedom of speech and freedom from the govt dictating the content of what is said by the Pastor/Priest/Rabbi in performance of the duties his faith dictates. We'll now wait and see what the IRS wishes to do as our hope is to take these cases to the courts to clear up the fact that the govt cannot dictate content and cannot stifle the voice of the church in this nation's political process. The Constitution guarantees our church's freedoms, not some bureacrat in the IRS or some liberal facist democratic Senator.

While I respect your right to worship and speak your mind, and you may very well be correct in your assessment of liberal democrats, but I disagree there is a Constitutional right to tax exemption. We're supposed to have equality under the law.

Great, if you want equality under the law, how about the political parties and candidates pay taxes on the millions and millions they get in donations.

 

[bodecea]

Thousands of Pastors across the nation took part in a challenge against the un-Constitutional Johnson amendment, (named for President Johnson who put forth the un-Constitutional amendment in 1954 while a Senator), today by publically endorsing specific candidates from the pulpits of their churchs. I am happy to say we participated in this and I preached the 8:15 service and my Pastor the 11:15 service and both of us preached against obama, the democratic party in general and various local democrats here in Md. Personally even though I could not bring myself to endorse a mormon from the pulpit, even though to defeat obama I will be voting for him and said so, I made it perfectly clear that a vote for obama was vote against America and that voting to support the liberal democrat party in this nation was a vote against the values of the Lord we serve. The sermon my Pastor led, along with thousands of others from around the nation, will be sent to the IRS this week to dare them to take legal action. The Constitution gives the Church not only tax exemption, but the right to freedom of speech and freedom from the govt dictating the content of what is said by the Pastor/Priest/Rabbi in performance of the duties his faith dictates. We'll now wait and see what the IRS wishes to do as our hope is to take these cases to the courts to clear up the fact that the govt cannot dictate content and cannot stifle the voice of the church in this nation's political process. The Constitution guarantees our church's freedoms, not some bureacrat in the IRS or some liberal facist democratic Senator.

While I respect your right to worship and speak your mind, and you may very well be correct in your assessment of liberal democrats, but I disagree there is a Constitutional right to tax exemption. We're supposed to have equality under the law.

Great, if you want equality under the law, how about the political parties and candidates pay taxes on the millions and millions they get in donations.

Works for me.

 

[jtpr312]

Never say never. I would certainly vote for that...and support any court case challanging religious exemption.

Your "vote" and "support" are not enough to stand against the US Constitution and centuries of precedent. You're of course free to bloviate all you want on the topic though.

Where in the Constitution does it give churches tax-exempt status?

Read the thread, already been answered

 

[Intense]

Matters of Conscience, especially relating to Free Speech are above the Authority of Government to Regulate. Using the Tax Codes to Extort or Blackmail Religious Institutions into compliance with the Whims, schemes, Scams, of It's making, is both an Abuse and an Abomination. We have both a Responsibility and an Obligation to Witness, and tell the Truth about what we see. You don't like that? Bear your own Witness to the Truth from Your Own Unique Perspective. ... Or would you prefer to have someone threaten to shut you up, using the Power of Government, and the Threat of Blackmail or Extortion?

 

[HUGGY]

Pulpit Freedom Sunday.

I prefer my Sunday morning beverage free of pulpit.

 

[bodecea]

Matters of Conscience, especially relating to Free Speech are above the Authority of Government to Regulate. Using the Tax Codes to Extort or Blackmail Religious Institutions into compliance with the Whims, schemes, Scams, of It's making, is both an Abuse and an Abomination. We have both a Responsibility and an Obligation to Witness, and tell the Truth about what we see. You don't like that? Bear your own Witness to the Truth from Your Own Unique Perspective. ... Or would you prefer to have someone threaten to shut you up, using the Power of Government, and the Threat of Blackmail or Extortion?

And here is the true danger....thinking that a religion is above the rule of law.

 

[bodecea]

Your "vote" and "support" are not enough to stand against the US Constitution and centuries of precedent. You're of course free to bloviate all you want on the topic though.

Where in the Constitution does it give churches tax-exempt status?

Read the thread, already been answered

No. it wasn't....I HAVE read the thread. Try again....with something in the Constitution. Check next to the part about Marriage....maybe it's there.

 

[occupied]

Matters of Conscience, especially relating to Free Speech are above the Authority of Government to Regulate. Using the Tax Codes to Extort or Blackmail Religious Institutions into compliance with the Whims, schemes, Scams, of It's making, is both an Abuse and an Abomination. We have both a Responsibility and an Obligation to Witness, and tell the Truth about what we see. You don't like that? Bear your own Witness to the Truth from Your Own Unique Perspective. ... Or would you prefer to have someone threaten to shut you up, using the Power of Government, and the Threat of Blackmail or Extortion?

Would you rather have preachers across the country telling their flock that a vote for a certain candidate imperils their souls to eternal damnation, I think you would.

 

[Salt Jones]

Matters of Conscience, especially relating to Free Speech are above the Authority of Government to Regulate. Using the Tax Codes to Extort or Blackmail Religious Institutions into compliance with the Whims, schemes, Scams, of It's making, is both an Abuse and an Abomination. We have both a Responsibility and an Obligation to Witness, and tell the Truth about what we see. You don't like that? Bear your own Witness to the Truth from Your Own Unique Perspective. ... Or would you prefer to have someone threaten to shut you up, using the Power of Government, and the Threat of Blackmail or Extortion?

No threat. They pay taxes just like everyone else and they can say what ever they want about politics. Sheldon Adelson, he Koch brothers, George Soros et al pay their taxes and donate 100's of millions to influence and support the politicians of their choice, just like corporations.

 

[Salt Jones]

Matters of Conscience, especially relating to Free Speech are above the Authority of Government to Regulate. Using the Tax Codes to Extort or Blackmail Religious Institutions into compliance with the Whims, schemes, Scams, of It's making, is both an Abuse and an Abomination. We have both a Responsibility and an Obligation to Witness, and tell the Truth about what we see. You don't like that? Bear your own Witness to the Truth from Your Own Unique Perspective. ... Or would you prefer to have someone threaten to shut you up, using the Power of Government, and the Threat of Blackmail or Extortion?

Would you rather have preachers across the country telling their flock that a vote for a certain candidate imperils their souls to eternal damnation, I think you would.

If they pay taxes, they can tell their flock what ever they want.

 

[jtpr312]

Matters of Conscience, especially relating to Free Speech are above the Authority of Government to Regulate. Using the Tax Codes to Extort or Blackmail Religious Institutions into compliance with the Whims, schemes, Scams, of It's making, is both an Abuse and an Abomination. We have both a Responsibility and an Obligation to Witness, and tell the Truth about what we see. You don't like that? Bear your own Witness to the Truth from Your Own Unique Perspective. ... Or would you prefer to have someone threaten to shut you up, using the Power of Government, and the Threat of Blackmail or Extortion?

Would you rather have preachers across the country telling their flock that a vote for a certain candidate imperils their souls to eternal damnation, I think you would.

Supporting certain paltforms and candidates DOES threaten their souls, so it is a matter of faith and duty for a Pastor to teach their flock this truth. The govt, according to our Constitution, has no right to dictate how or what a Pastor preaches according to his faith.

 

[bodecea]

Matters of Conscience, especially relating to Free Speech are above the Authority of Government to Regulate. Using the Tax Codes to Extort or Blackmail Religious Institutions into compliance with the Whims, schemes, Scams, of It's making, is both an Abuse and an Abomination. We have both a Responsibility and an Obligation to Witness, and tell the Truth about what we see. You don't like that? Bear your own Witness to the Truth from Your Own Unique Perspective. ... Or would you prefer to have someone threaten to shut you up, using the Power of Government, and the Threat of Blackmail or Extortion?

Would you rather have preachers across the country telling their flock that a vote for a certain candidate imperils their souls to eternal damnation, I think you would.

Supporting certain paltforms and candidates DOES threaten their souls, so it is a matter of faith and duty for a Pastor to teach their flock this truth. The govt, according to our Constitution, has no right to dictate how or what a Pastor preaches according to his faith.

You are absolutely correct in that regard. Ergo, the tax exempt status needs to go away.

 

[jtpr312]

Matters of Conscience, especially relating to Free Speech are above the Authority of Government to Regulate. Using the Tax Codes to Extort or Blackmail Religious Institutions into compliance with the Whims, schemes, Scams, of It's making, is both an Abuse and an Abomination. We have both a Responsibility and an Obligation to Witness, and tell the Truth about what we see. You don't like that? Bear your own Witness to the Truth from Your Own Unique Perspective. ... Or would you prefer to have someone threaten to shut you up, using the Power of Government, and the Threat of Blackmail or Extortion?

Would you rather have preachers across the country telling their flock that a vote for a certain candidate imperils their souls to eternal damnation, I think you would.

If they pay taxes, they can tell their flock what ever they want.

Oh ok, so you agree with us then. You see dumbass, Pastors DO pay the same exact income taxes that you do so we can all say you support them saying whatever they want. Thanks.