Public Union Pension Plan Changes

[rhodescholar]

Limiting pension payments how? I'm ok with that.....IF a civil servant who dedicates 30+ years to the people of their locality, state, or nation isn't thrown into poverty by the move. I especially am OK with the laying it on the line for new hires. If they know in advance what the deal is, they can choose to accept employment in the public sector or not.

But to fuck over people who have spent their adult lives in the service of the people....no....I am against it.

FUCK that. Who said because they spent a lot of time there, they are fucking ENTITLED to anything? Are they fucking children?

I can name on two hands the number of people I personally know, most of them lower or middle management, who worked for 30+ years at banks or other firms that went bankrupt, leaving them without a job, pension, stock, or anything. These people worked 75 hour weeks, weekends, etc for YEARS - and have nothing to show for it.

WTF is it alright for these people to have to accept they made a bad decision to stay with their company and lose everything - but for some reason, those public employees - we need to make sure they "are taken care of" by the rest of us?

Sorry, but that pig don't fly.

 

[rhodescholar]

So, you can't explain it. You could have just said so. Want me to explain how unions help raise wages for all workers?

Since you asked:

The Beholden State by Steven Malanga, City Journal Spring 2010

 

[ClosedCaption]

And can you not accept that there were other options?

And they WERE NOT viable, were they Stupid?

Were they talked about? Were any tried?

Nice defeatist attitude.

They werent viable because it didnt happen.

 

[rhodescholar]

Yes.he country as a whole was plunged into the worst recession in generations, due to policies the GOP pushed for and enacted. No part of the country was spared.I just find it interesting that the moment a city runs into financial trouble, all conservatives blame unions and try to cast them as the evil doers.

You have no fucking clue WTF you are talking about.

In less than 10 years, the pension payments for NYC went from $500 MM to $ 9 BILLION, and are expected to continue to rise at that rate.

Remind me again which fucking party outnumbers the other one in NY 6-1?

And if you think that's fun, most of these asshole actuaries - due to public union pressure - are STILL using > 7% ROR on their funds, which is totally not attainable. The public unions won't allow the passage of more rational rates like 4%, which would drive taxes through the stratosphere to pay for the obscene pension and health care benefits these workers are getting.

 

[rhodescholar]

Again, if a city can't meet its obligations, it has two options. The first is to cut the obligations and the second is to get more to pay them. None of you are even acknowledging the second option.

Dude, all I can say is: "FUCK YOU!"

You fucking think I will pay MORE fucking taxes to fund these bastards? Not a motherfucking chance!!

I pay almost 9% sales tax, the highest income tax in the country, highest utlity rates, highest fees on vehicles and property, highest real estate tax - already in excess of 65% of my salary - you can go fuck yourself if you think you'll get another penny out of me. I'll shut my business down entirely and fire all of my employees if NY raises the tax rate again. Then let us know how much tax revenue you'll get then.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I have no problem seeing government employees moved into a defined contribution retirement plan.

it's good enough for the rest of us so it should be good enough for them.

And that's the crux of the argument, isn't it? And where was the representation for the people at those negotiations between the Public Sector Unions and the politicians? Where WAS OUR vote in what those unions got at OUR expense as the UNIONS sure voted to accept or not?

Exactly the problem.

Unions negotiate with politicians who depend on union campaign contributions and endorsements.

It's the very definition of a conflict of interest.

 

[rhodescholar]

With all due respect, the members of these public unions entered into these agreements in good faith.

With all due respect, those scumbag, lowlife politicians like sheldon silver who buy votes with my dollars sweetening their salaries, perks and pensions did not represent my interests in any way, shape or form.

Public sector unions make a convenient target - but they weren't the ones responsible for creating the financial crash of 2008

You sure about that? They certainly have in Greece and CA.

A pension is nothing more than deferred income that municipal, state and federal governments promise to pay at some later date. It is not the workers fault that past governments failed to take those steps necessary to fund the financial commitments they made.

If that were true, then the funds would not need ridiculous rates of return like 8% or more to achieve them.

If governments can suddenly change the rules in mid-stream and make public workers the "scapegoats" for political mismanagement and Wall Street greed,

Ok, had enough. If you are going to fall back on the moveon.org talking point BS, we're done here. Bring facts next time - not slogans.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I have no problem seeing government employees moved into a defined contribution retirement plan.

it's good enough for the rest of us so it should be good enough for them.

Refer to my post. That is all this is about. Instead of demanding more you demand that everyone get less. Why?

Why should my tax dollars support a pension plan that does not exist in the free market?

I save my own money for retirement I don't expect a lifetime pension and quite frankly I don't think anyone deserves a guaranteed lifetime income.

You work, you save when you stop working you live on your savings. If you can't save enough to retire then you work as long as you have to.

Where in the world to you get the idea that someone owes you a pension?

 

[The T]

I have no problem seeing government employees moved into a defined contribution retirement plan.

it's good enough for the rest of us so it should be good enough for them.

Refer to my post. That is all this is about. Instead of demanding more you demand that everyone get less. Why?

Why should my tax dollars support a pension plan that does not exist in the free market?

I save my own money for retirement I don't expect a lifetime pension and quite frankly I don't think anyone deserves a guaranteed lifetime income.

You work, you save when you stop working you live on your savings. If you can't save enough to retire then you work as long as you have to.

Where in the world to you get the idea that someone owes you a pension?

Indeed...and when the Statists see that thier way is unsustainable? Guess what they're gonna come after?

Yours and MINE to sustain thiers. The GREED is that great.

 

[MeBelle]

Again, if a city can't meet its obligations, it has two options. The first is to cut the obligations and the second is to get more to pay them. None of you are even acknowledging the second option.

Both options require union negotiations AND 'permission' from CalPERS.

A third option is to file for bankruptcy.

 

[The T]

Again, if a city can't meet its obligations, it has two options. The first is to cut the obligations and the second is to get more to pay them. None of you are even acknowledging the second option.

Both options require union negotiations AND 'permission' from CalPERS.

A third option is to file for bankruptcy.

I'd LOVE to see the UNIONS file for bankruptcy.

Too Big to fail for money laundering operation for the Democrats?

 

[The T]

In fact? I'd love to DRIVE the UNIONS to bankruptcy.

They Deserve NO LESS than what they're doing to the proivate sector.

 

[Wiseacre]

Again, if a city can't meet its obligations, it has two options. The first is to cut the obligations and the second is to get more to pay them. None of you are even acknowledging the second option.

Both options require union negotiations AND 'permission' from CalPERS.

A third option is to file for bankruptcy.

My understanding is that the unions are going to file lawsuits challenging the cities' legal right to do what they've done and what the voters approved. I would say that if this proposition is thrown out then the cities and the unions will be right back in court fighting over bankruptcy rulings. If they go down the bankruptcy path, I'd suggest the unions will end up with a lesser deal than the current situation.

 

[Darkwind]

Why don't you explain it to us then.

Thanks for backing up my point.

So, you can't explain it. You could have just said so. Want me to explain how unions help raise wages for all workers?

No, he wants you to explain how it is that the Unions can pay for Politicians reelections and have them influence how favorable negotiations go when it comes time to talk contracts.

It is called sitting on both sides of the table.

So, tell Me again how Unions help raise the wages for all workers. Cause the taxpayer sure doesn't have anyone sitting at that table looking out for their wages, benefits or interests.

 

[ClosedCaption]

I have no problem seeing government employees moved into a defined contribution retirement plan.

it's good enough for the rest of us so it should be good enough for them.

Refer to my post. That is all this is about. Instead of demanding more you demand that everyone get less. Why?

Why should my tax dollars support a pension plan that does not exist in the free market?

I save my own money for retirement I don't expect a lifetime pension and quite frankly I don't think anyone deserves a guaranteed lifetime income.

You work, you save when you stop working you live on your savings. If you can't save enough to retire then you work as long as you have to.

Where in the world to you get the idea that someone owes you a pension?

uh Because thats what the state agreed to do. Thats your opinion but you're dragging everyone else down just because your jealous of the benes. 3rd sentence is great, walmart greeter positions flood the market! America!

You're jealous...thats all. Class Warfare is ugly

 

[Darkwind]

Refer to my post. That is all this is about. Instead of demanding more you demand that everyone get less. Why?

Why should my tax dollars support a pension plan that does not exist in the free market?

I save my own money for retirement I don't expect a lifetime pension and quite frankly I don't think anyone deserves a guaranteed lifetime income.

You work, you save when you stop working you live on your savings. If you can't save enough to retire then you work as long as you have to.

Where in the world to you get the idea that someone owes you a pension?

uh Because thats what the state agreed to do. Thats your opinion but you're dragging everyone else down just because your jealous of the benes. 3rd sentence is great, walmart greeter positions flood the market! America!

You're jealous...thats all. Class Warfare is ugly

No, that is how the Unions bought it. The people have a right to rein in the Unions and their corruption.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Refer to my post. That is all this is about. Instead of demanding more you demand that everyone get less. Why?

Why should my tax dollars support a pension plan that does not exist in the free market?

I save my own money for retirement I don't expect a lifetime pension and quite frankly I don't think anyone deserves a guaranteed lifetime income.

You work, you save when you stop working you live on your savings. If you can't save enough to retire then you work as long as you have to.

Where in the world to you get the idea that someone owes you a pension?

uh Because thats what the state agreed to do. Thats your opinion but you're dragging everyone else down just because your jealous of the benes. 3rd sentence is great, walmart greeter positions flood the market! America!

Which is why the people who pay the government hacks have to change the system. I would never hire a person and guarantee them a life time income. No one in the private sector would be able to do that and stay in business.

The problem is that politicians who receive money from unions made those deals because they view the taxpayers as there own inexhaustible money supply.

We see that's not the case as states are going bankrupt left and right.

As I said government employees work at the whim of the taxpayer and we're pretty sick of the waste and corruption.

We can honor existing contracts but whether you like it or not sooner or later you government hacks are going to have to work and save just like those of us that pay your salaries.

You're jealous...thats all. Class Warfare is ugly

I have nothing to be jealous of.

I own my own business and make about 6 times the salary of a state employee. I'm just sick of paying out the nose for deals made by corrupt politicians.

 

[MeBelle]

Again, if a city can't meet its obligations, it has two options. The first is to cut the obligations and the second is to get more to pay them. None of you are even acknowledging the second option.

Both options require union negotiations AND 'permission' from CalPERS.

A third option is to file for bankruptcy.

My understanding is that the unions are going to file lawsuits challenging the cities' legal right to do what they've done and what the voters approved. I would say that if this proposition is thrown out then the cities and the unions will be right back in court fighting over bankruptcy rulings. If they go down the bankruptcy path, I'd suggest the unions will end up with a lesser deal than the current situation.

They have started a lawsuit with San Jose, but if either are charter cities I don't think they have much of a leg to stand on.

 

[KissMy]

Extortion of citizens by union terrorist is over.

 

[KissMy]

I have nothing to be jealous of.

I own my own business and make about 6 times the salary of a state employee. I'm just sick of paying out the nose for deals made by corrupt politicians.

State employees in California make $10 million guaranteed by tax payers. Do you make $60 million guaranteed?