Public Union Pension Plan Changes

[Meister]

Bottom line with me is that public union contracts are not negotiated with the taxpayers who pay for the benefits. Taxpayers have no say in the matter whatsoever. I feel that the union members need to pay their fair share in the benefit packages like union members do in the private sector, where contracts are negotiated between union members and the business.
It's not asking too much, and they would be paying their fair share...I thought the left was all for paying their fair share?

 

[DontBeStupid]

My guess would be the politicians, mostly democrats, who agreed to those obligations, and also the unions, mostly public, who own them. Surely you are aware of what's been going on in California for the last several decades.

And it was Republicans who ran the country into the ground and are now pushing for austerity measures, which is why cities like San Diego suddenly "can't meet obligations".

Maybe conservatives would like to stop attacking workers for a moment and try helping us find ways to meet our obligations.

Seriously man? You're trying to blame the GOP for the problems in California? Or in San Diego and San Jose? That's really out there.

Yes.

The country as a whole was plunged into the worst recession in generations, due to policies the GOP pushed for and enacted. No part of the country was spared.

I just find it interesting that the moment a city runs into financial trouble, all conservatives blame unions and try to cast them as the evil doers.

 

[ClosedCaption]

As Jason Richwine of Heritage and I have shown [elsewhere], generous traditional pension benefits are a main driver of pay differences between public and private sector employees. "

I think anyone who thinks pulling down union workers as a means of addressing pay differences is a moron.

Thats what I dont understand. In the long run it not only hurts unions (which I dont understand the obsession there either) and the private (meaning everyone else including you) salaries and or benefits.

So we have the people working for scraps saying "Hey, they are making more money / more benes...Lets Take it!"

Makes no sense

 

[Meister]

And it was Republicans who ran the country into the ground and are now pushing for austerity measures, which is why cities like San Diego suddenly "can't meet obligations".

Maybe conservatives would like to stop attacking workers for a moment and try helping us find ways to meet our obligations.

Seriously man? You're trying to blame the GOP for the problems in California? Or in San Diego and San Jose? That's really out there.

Yes.

The country as a whole was plunged into the worst recession in generations, due to policies the GOP pushed for and enacted. No part of the country was spared.

I just find it interesting that the moment a city runs into financial trouble, all conservatives blame unions and try to cast them as the evil doers.

One party did not create the problem...it was a group effort no matter how you try to spin the truth. Ca. got into a mess by it's social policies for the most part and by public unions...so you can call it what you want, but the pensions are unfunded right now and on the backs of the taxpayers. Asking the members to chip into their own benefit packages is not extreme, no matter what you say.

 

[The T]

Seriously man? You're trying to blame the GOP for the problems in California? Or in San Diego and San Jose? That's really out there.

Yes.

The country as a whole was plunged into the worst recession in generations, due to policies the GOP pushed for and enacted. No part of the country was spared.

I just find it interesting that the moment a city runs into financial trouble, all conservatives blame unions and try to cast them as the evil doers.

One party did not create the problem...it was a group effort no matter how you try to spin the truth. Ca. got into a mess by it's social policies for the most part and by public unions...so you can call it what you want, but the pensions are unfunded right now and on the backs of the taxpayers. Asking the members to chip into their own benefit packages is not extreme, no matter what you say.

it was definitely a concerted efforts over decades that the people can't afford any longer and have to dial back.

The unfunded mandates are STAGGERING.

 

[DontBeStupid]

Seriously man? You're trying to blame the GOP for the problems in California? Or in San Diego and San Jose? That's really out there.

Yes.

The country as a whole was plunged into the worst recession in generations, due to policies the GOP pushed for and enacted. No part of the country was spared.

I just find it interesting that the moment a city runs into financial trouble, all conservatives blame unions and try to cast them as the evil doers.

One party did not create the problem...it was a group effort no matter how you try to spin the truth. Ca. got into a mess by it's social policies for the most part and by public unions...so you can call it what you want, but the pensions are unfunded right now and on the backs of the taxpayers. Asking the members to chip into their own benefit packages is not extreme, no matter what you say.

I'm not saying it's extreme. I'm saying there's a better way to do all this and I am amazed that conservatives don't even want to talk about it.

 

[The T]

Yes.

The country as a whole was plunged into the worst recession in generations, due to policies the GOP pushed for and enacted. No part of the country was spared.

I just find it interesting that the moment a city runs into financial trouble, all conservatives blame unions and try to cast them as the evil doers.

One party did not create the problem...it was a group effort no matter how you try to spin the truth. Ca. got into a mess by it's social policies for the most part and by public unions...so you can call it what you want, but the pensions are unfunded right now and on the backs of the taxpayers. Asking the members to chip into their own benefit packages is not extreme, no matter what you say.

I'm not saying it's extreme. I'm saying there's a better way to do all this and I am amazed that conservatives don't even want to talk about it.

Conservatives like Paul Ryan have...and Dingy Harry Reid shelved it.

 

[Meister]

Yes.

The country as a whole was plunged into the worst recession in generations, due to policies the GOP pushed for and enacted. No part of the country was spared.

I just find it interesting that the moment a city runs into financial trouble, all conservatives blame unions and try to cast them as the evil doers.

One party did not create the problem...it was a group effort no matter how you try to spin the truth. Ca. got into a mess by it's social policies for the most part and by public unions...so you can call it what you want, but the pensions are unfunded right now and on the backs of the taxpayers. Asking the members to chip into their own benefit packages is not extreme, no matter what you say.

I'm not saying it's extreme. I'm saying there's a better way to do all this and I am amazed that conservatives don't even want to talk about it.

All of this hasn't popped up over the last month, it's taken years to get to the point where we are at. If there's a better way, somebody just might have suggested it long before now....and they haven't, or it's not a better way.
Asking union members to help fund their own pensions IS NOT asking too much.

 

[Wiseacre]

As Jason Richwine of Heritage and I have shown [elsewhere], generous traditional pension benefits are a main driver of pay differences between public and private sector employees. "

I think anyone who thinks pulling down union workers as a means of addressing pay differences is a moron.

Thats what I dont understand. In the long run it not only hurts unions (which I dont understand the obsession there either) and the private (meaning everyone else including you) salaries and or benefits.

So we have the people working for scraps saying "Hey, they are making more money / more benes...Lets Take it!"

Makes no sense

The main reason why these propositions were enacted was not to address pay differences, it was done to address unsustainable future debt obligations that neither city could meet. [Please read post #11.] Don't you get it? Those cities cannot pay the pensions as they are now and still provide the basic services that it's citizens expect.

Why are they going after the unions? Cuz that's where the fucking money is going, andit's going to get a lot worse. [Please read post #11 again.]

Working for scraps. You gotta be kidding me. Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

 

[The T]

One party did not create the problem...it was a group effort no matter how you try to spin the truth. Ca. got into a mess by it's social policies for the most part and by public unions...so you can call it what you want, but the pensions are unfunded right now and on the backs of the taxpayers. Asking the members to chip into their own benefit packages is not extreme, no matter what you say.

I'm not saying it's extreme. I'm saying there's a better way to do all this and I am amazed that conservatives don't even want to talk about it.

All of this hasn't popped up over the last month, it's taken years to get to the point where we are at. If there's a better way, somebody just might have suggested it long before now....and they haven't, or it's not a better way.
Asking union members to help fund their own pensions IS NOT asking too much.

Nope. Not at all.

 

[Listening]

I think anyone who thinks pulling down union workers as a means of addressing pay differences is a moron.

And I know that anyone that doesn't understand how unions circumvent the marketplace in terms of wage and benefit value is a stupid fiuckwit.

Why don't you explain it to us then.

Case in point.

 

[Listening]

A defined contribution....meaning the money is identified up front and we know who it belongs to.

As opposed to a defined benefit.

A growing trend....

Can you say Social Security ????

Let's hope it happens soon.

 

[DontBeStupid]

I think anyone who thinks pulling down union workers as a means of addressing pay differences is a moron.

Thats what I dont understand. In the long run it not only hurts unions (which I dont understand the obsession there either) and the private (meaning everyone else including you) salaries and or benefits.

So we have the people working for scraps saying "Hey, they are making more money / more benes...Lets Take it!"

Makes no sense

The main reason why these propositions were enacted was not to address pay differences, it was done to address unsustainable future debt obligations that neither city could meet. [Please read post #11.] Don't you get it? Those cities cannot pay the pensions as they are now and still provide the basic services that it's citizens expect.

Why are they going after the unions? Cuz that's where the fucking money is going, andit's going to get a lot worse. [Please read post #11 again.]

Working for scraps. You gotta be kidding me. Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

Again, if a city can't meet its obligations, it has two options. The first is to cut the obligations and the second is to get more to pay them. None of you are even acknowledging the second option.

 

[The T]

How is it possible for Public Sector Unions to continue to have thier cake and eat it too when they are putting the miller, the bakers out of business as they continue to demand what they claim they are OWED?

 

[Meister]

Thats what I dont understand. In the long run it not only hurts unions (which I dont understand the obsession there either) and the private (meaning everyone else including you) salaries and or benefits.

So we have the people working for scraps saying "Hey, they are making more money / more benes...Lets Take it!"

Makes no sense

The main reason why these propositions were enacted was not to address pay differences, it was done to address unsustainable future debt obligations that neither city could meet. [Please read post #11.] Don't you get it? Those cities cannot pay the pensions as they are now and still provide the basic services that it's citizens expect.

Why are they going after the unions? Cuz that's where the fucking money is going, andit's going to get a lot worse. [Please read post #11 again.]

Working for scraps. You gotta be kidding me. Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

Again, if a city can't meet its obligations, it has two options. The first is to cut the obligations and the second is to get more to pay them. None of you are even acknowledging the second option.

Enhance revenue = Higher taxes or fees. Got it

 

[Meister]

How is it possible for Public Sector Unions to continue to have thier cake and eat it too when they are putting the miller, the bakers out of business as they continue to demand what they claim they are OWED?

I guess for the tapayers to have a "Bake Sale"

 

[The T]

How is it possible for Public Sector Unions to continue to have thier cake and eat it too when they are putting the miller, the bakers out of business as they continue to demand what they claim they are OWED?

I guess for the tapayers to have a "Bake Sale"

Good Answer...

 

[DontBeStupid]

The main reason why these propositions were enacted was not to address pay differences, it was done to address unsustainable future debt obligations that neither city could meet. [Please read post #11.] Don't you get it? Those cities cannot pay the pensions as they are now and still provide the basic services that it's citizens expect.

Why are they going after the unions? Cuz that's where the fucking money is going, andit's going to get a lot worse. [Please read post #11 again.]

Working for scraps. You gotta be kidding me. Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

Again, if a city can't meet its obligations, it has two options. The first is to cut the obligations and the second is to get more to pay them. None of you are even acknowledging the second option.

Enhance revenue = Higher taxes or fees. Got it

heh heh always the one track mind.

For the record, I was not talking about raising taxes.

 

[Wiseacre]

Thats what I dont understand. In the long run it not only hurts unions (which I dont understand the obsession there either) and the private (meaning everyone else including you) salaries and or benefits.

So we have the people working for scraps saying "Hey, they are making more money / more benes...Lets Take it!"

Makes no sense

The main reason why these propositions were enacted was not to address pay differences, it was done to address unsustainable future debt obligations that neither city could meet. [Please read post #11.] Don't you get it? Those cities cannot pay the pensions as they are now and still provide the basic services that it's citizens expect.

Why are they going after the unions? Cuz that's where the fucking money is going, andit's going to get a lot worse. [Please read post #11 again.]

Working for scraps. You gotta be kidding me. Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

Again, if a city can't meet its obligations, it has two options. The first is to cut the obligations and the second is to get more to pay them. None of you are even acknowledging the second option.

And you and your lefty friends won't acknowledge the first option. For God's sake man, do you not realize that you can't raise taxes anywhere near enough to pay for those pensions? From $73 million 10 years ago to $245 million last year in San Diego, what'll it be 10 years from now if they didn't restructure? People and businesses are already leaving CA in droves, and you want to raise taxes more than they already are? Jesus, it's incomprehensible how detached you are from reality.

 

[DontBeStupid]

The main reason why these propositions were enacted was not to address pay differences, it was done to address unsustainable future debt obligations that neither city could meet. [Please read post #11.] Don't you get it? Those cities cannot pay the pensions as they are now and still provide the basic services that it's citizens expect.

Why are they going after the unions? Cuz that's where the fucking money is going, andit's going to get a lot worse. [Please read post #11 again.]

Working for scraps. You gotta be kidding me. Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds?

Again, if a city can't meet its obligations, it has two options. The first is to cut the obligations and the second is to get more to pay them. None of you are even acknowledging the second option.

And you and your lefty friends won't acknowledge the first option. For God's sake man, do you not realize that you can't raise taxes anywhere near enough to pay for those pensions? From $73 million 10 years ago to $245 million last year in San Diego, what'll it be 10 years from now if they didn't restructure? People and businesses are already leaving CA in droves, and you want to raise taxes more than they already are? Jesus, it's incomprehensible how detached you are from reality.

See above.

I didn't say anything about raising taxes.