Public high school and Muslim football players

[manifold]

That schedule would suck balls if there were any Christians on that team, but there doesn't seem to be.

And there are plenty of public schools with an entirely Christian student population. Does that mean they are allowed to hold morning prayer sessions?

In this case while Religion is the culprit for the change in practice it is NOT FOR religious reasons. It is for safety reasons. There is no religious activity occurring on the field except possibly by individual students. Practice was not moved specifically for a religious activity, prayer meeting, prayer breakfast or any other organized religious reason.

It is simply a matter of fact that during Ramadan the devout Muslims fast. And in order to keep the players safe and healthy a change in practice4 had to occur.

Horsefeathers.

It was moved because of Ramadan fasting, which is a religious practice. You can put as much lipstick on this pig as you like but it's still a pig. If there is just one non-Muslim on the team then he has just as much of a beef with this as did the lone atheist who first bitched about prayer in schools lo those years ago.

 

[Si modo]

And there are plenty of public schools with an entirely Christian student population. Does that mean they are allowed to hold morning prayer sessions?

Bingo. This is what has me not being able to find some sort of conviction on this.

You are looking at it wrong. The move was NOT for any religious meeting, function, procession, prayer or any organized religious activity. It was simply for the safety and health of the majority of the student athletes.

I think you've hit on the most compelling part of this. Public schools can make reasonable accommodations for students' religions, and safety is more than a reason to do so.

But, then there are the non-Muslim players who have to accommodate THEIR schedule because the school (public funds) tells them they must.

 

[chanel]

It's a local issue, and the community seems to support it.

We have a Bible club at our school. It's a local issue and the community supports it. I realize its days are numbered, but the opposition will most likely come from OUTSIDE the community, and not from Muslims, Jews, or Hindus.

It will be from the godless agitators. - AKA the ACLU.

 

[Si modo]

It's a local issue, and the community seems to support it.

We have a Bible club at our school. It's a local issue and the community supports it. I realize its days are numbered, but the opposition will most likely come from OUTSIDE the community, and not from Muslims, Jews, or Hindus.

It will be from the godless agitators. - AKA the ACLU.

I also agree it should be totally a community specific thing. Always, since the community is the one PAYING for that school.

I wonder if the ACLU will find issue with this?

 

[manifold]

It's a local issue, and the community seems to support it.

We have a Bible club at our school. It's a local issue and the community supports it. I realize its days are numbered, but the opposition will most likely come from OUTSIDE the community, and not from Muslims, Jews, or Hindus.

It will be from the godless agitators. - AKA the ACLU.

I also agree it should be totally a community specific thing. Always, since the community is the one PAYING for that school.

I wonder if the ACLU will find issue with this?

I'd be down with the 'community specific' concept if that were the rule and not the exception. This looks like an exception to me.

 

[Si modo]

It's a local issue, and the community seems to support it.

We have a Bible club at our school. It's a local issue and the community supports it. I realize its days are numbered, but the opposition will most likely come from OUTSIDE the community, and not from Muslims, Jews, or Hindus.

It will be from the godless agitators. - AKA the ACLU.

I also agree it should be totally a community specific thing. Always, since the community is the one PAYING for that school.

I wonder if the ACLU will find issue with this?

I'd be down with the 'community specific' concept if that were the rule and not the exception. This looks like an exception to me.

It does, doesn't it?

How things should be aren't always how they generally are.

 

[old navy]

Among my many talents is football and baseball coaching. During Ramadan, we are reminded that the Muslim kids need increased monitoring due to their dietary restrictions. They practice and play according to the regular schedule. Also, during one of the jewish holidays, Yom Kippur I think, we have to move a Friday football game to Thursday night. Religion is important to some families.

As someone else posted, accomodations in public schools for different religions can and are made. I don't have a problem with that.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

We have a Bible club at our school. It's a local issue and the community supports it. I realize its days are numbered, but the opposition will most likely come from OUTSIDE the community, and not from Muslims, Jews, or Hindus.

It will be from the godless agitators. - AKA the ACLU.

Having a Bible club at school is not unconstitutional.

 

[chanel]

I know. But the stipulation is that it must be "student-run". It could be argued that the teachers are too involved.

Many schools have given up these clubs simply because of fear of a lawsuit. Even unwinnable cases can cost tons to defend.

 

[old navy]

I know. But the stipulation is that it must be "student-run". It could be argued that the teachers are too involved.

Many schools have given up these clubs simply because of fear of a lawsuit. Even unwinnable cases can cost tons to defend.

A couple of years ago the students started organizing a Student Muslim Association. They could not find a teacher sponser. One of the kids that I had in class the two previous years dropped by and asked if I would sponser the club. My first response was to state the obvious, "But I'm not Muslim." He said that he and his friends did not care, they just wanted to get the club going.

I told him that I would do it if no other teacher stepped up but let's give it a few more days. All of a sudden two or three teachers jumped on board and I was off the hook. This would have for sure been student run if I had been the sponser.

 

[Douger]

Sports should be eliminated from all levels of education, including college. They should be managed by the likes of the Jaycees.
Ever seen a boxing or karate champ that came from a school or university program ?
Kids want to get fit and learn something without destroying their body should hit the scouts.
I guess I'm an opinionated fucker but I played all sports ( more pussy) but earning my Eagle status was a highlight in my early life.
IM_always_HO it is the most important thing for a kid to do.
Fuck football.

 

[Toro]

I'm all for safety of the kids during sports. And, most of the kids who play (but, not all) are practicing Muslims.

So, the school - a public high school - changes their practices, a tax-payer supported sport, to accommodate the Muslim players.

I suppose the establishment clause allows for reasonable accommodation of religions in public school, but I am asking myself what makes this any less an "establishment" than players praying before, during, or after a game?

That schedule would suck balls if there were any Christians on that team, but there doesn't seem to be.

And there are plenty of public schools with an entirely Christian student population. Does that mean they are allowed to hold morning prayer sessions?

A better analogy would be the local Christian community holds a morning prayer session every day from 7am to 8am. Therefore, there are no football practices until 8.30am.

This isn't about religion at the school. This is about scheduling around religious observances. Is it OK for schools to not have football practices on Christmas day? I don't know much about the Jewish schools, but do they schedule sporting events on Hanukkah?

 

[Ravi]

That schedule would suck balls if there were any Christians on that team, but there doesn't seem to be.

And there are plenty of public schools with an entirely Christian student population. Does that mean they are allowed to hold morning prayer sessions?

A better analogy would be the local Christian community holds a morning prayer session every day from 7am to 8am. Therefore, there are no football practices until 8.30am.

This isn't about religion at the school. This is about scheduling around religious observances. Is it OK for schools to not have football practices on Christmas day? I don't know much about the Jewish schools, but do they schedule sporting events on Hanukkah?

Public schools give students 2 weeks off for Christmas and one week off for Easter. Pretending Christians aren't accommodated is dishonest (not that you are making that claim).

 

[Toro]

And there are plenty of public schools with an entirely Christian student population. Does that mean they are allowed to hold morning prayer sessions?

A better analogy would be the local Christian community holds a morning prayer session every day from 7am to 8am. Therefore, there are no football practices until 8.30am.

This isn't about religion at the school. This is about scheduling around religious observances. Is it OK for schools to not have football practices on Christmas day? I don't know much about the Jewish schools, but do they schedule sporting events on Hanukkah?

Public schools give students 2 weeks off for Christmas and one week off for Easter. Pretending Christians aren't accommodated is dishonest (not that you are making that claim).

I think Christians should be accommodated because this is predominately a Christian culture.

However, from a practical standpoint, if most of the kids aren't going to show up anyways, why have a practice? I don't know if practicing at 11pm is a good idea or not, but my father used to drag me out of bed for 5.30am hockey practices, which totally sucked and couldn't have been any worse than practicing at 11pm.

 

[strollingbones]

i have zero clue when footballs games start or end....i think anyone letting their child engage in football is a damned fool

Pretty obvious by that comment you're a woman. If every kid in this country were raised by mothers with that hard headed view we'd have a nation full of men who are effeminate wimps.

or kids who were not hurt for the glory of football......

i dont think preventing head injuries is a bad thing or protecting growth plates is a bad thing

 

[FA_Q2]

i have zero clue when footballs games start or end....i think anyone letting their child engage in football is a damned fool

Pretty obvious by that comment you're a woman. If every kid in this country were raised by mothers with that hard headed view we'd have a nation full of men who are effeminate wimps.

or kids who were not hurt for the glory of football......

i dont think preventing head injuries is a bad thing or protecting growth plates is a bad thing

Then you fail to understand that pain and injury are a part of life and, even more so, a part of growing up. Same shit can happen riding a bike down a big hill or skating at the local skate park. The need to prevent all harm to our children is asinine. There needs to be safety taken into account and the proper gear/rules need to be enforced. Guess what, all that is happening and it is getting better every year.

To the OP, it was said before but it is so true, scheduling around religious observances is not the same as sponsoring a religion. The move is a good idea and should be supported if the majority of the team needs the move for safety.

 

[Article 15]

That schedule would suck balls if there were any Christians on that team, but there doesn't seem to be.

And there are plenty of public schools with an entirely Christian student population. Does that mean they are allowed to hold morning prayer sessions?

A better analogy would be the local Christian community holds a morning prayer session every day from 7am to 8am. Therefore, there are no football practices until 8.30am.

This isn't about religion at the school. This is about scheduling around religious observances. Is it OK for schools to not have football practices on Christmas day? I don't know much about the Jewish schools, but do they schedule sporting events on Hanukkah?

This.

 

[Ravi]

A better analogy would be the local Christian community holds a morning prayer session every day from 7am to 8am. Therefore, there are no football practices until 8.30am.

This isn't about religion at the school. This is about scheduling around religious observances. Is it OK for schools to not have football practices on Christmas day? I don't know much about the Jewish schools, but do they schedule sporting events on Hanukkah?

Public schools give students 2 weeks off for Christmas and one week off for Easter. Pretending Christians aren't accommodated is dishonest (not that you are making that claim).

I think Christians should be accommodated because this is predominately a Christian culture.

However, from a practical standpoint, if most of the kids aren't going to show up anyways, why have a practice? I don't know if practicing at 11pm is a good idea or not, but my father used to drag me out of bed for 5.30am hockey practices, which totally sucked and couldn't have been any worse than practicing at 11pm.

That makes sense. But I do think that accommodating one group means all should be accommodated to some extent (if in the particular school there is more than one group).

(and, lol, manifold, how did you know I was talking about you?)

 

[jillian]

i have zero clue when footballs games start or end....i think anyone letting their child engage in football is a damned fool

Pretty obvious by that comment you're a woman. If every kid in this country were raised by mothers with that hard headed view we'd have a nation full of men who are effeminate wimps.

if you look at the chart, you'll notice that rates of injuries for student atheletes playing football occur at far greater frequency than any other sport. It is a fact that football players have a much shorter career, in general, than athletes in other sports because of the rate and severity of injuries. Additionally, football players receive a physical pounding that doesn't occur in any other sport.

Epidemiology of Collegiate Injuries for 15 Sports: Summary and Recommendations for Injury Prevention Initiatives

 

[High_Gravity]

I think there are. In the NYT article, they quote some guy with an Italian-sounding name and one guy with a name of anglo-origin. It doesn't necessarily mean they are not Muslim, but I think they aren't Muslim, based on the quotes.

Although Dearborn is mostly Muslim, there are a good amount of Polish and Italian Catholics there (I lived in the Detroit area for some time).

I have been to Dearborn Michigan, many moons ago, I lived in Indiana as a boy on the Michigan border and I went up there one time and ate an Arabic restaurant, the food was quite good, the area was predominantly Arab and Muslim from what I saw at the time.

The Region? Or, more country?

All that is my old stomping grounds.

Wow this was almost 20 years ago, from what I saw of Dearborn it looked like it was majority Arab but not all of them were Muslims, alot of Christians from Syria, Iraq, Lebanon etc. re-settled in Dearborn. I lived in a small town in Indiana right across from Fort Wayne and the Michigan border until my 6th grade year when I moved to Kansas City where I stayed until graduation.