Public Employee Unions

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Because unlike progressives, we cant lie and promise people stuff they dont have to pay for?

Correct!

You people just put it on the credit card like the Iraq fiasco.

and yet liberal credit card purchases are in perpetuity.

Wars end, evidently liberal social welfare programs never do, even if we run out of money to pay for them.

At least welfare money stays here. Unlike military escapade money which disappears in some foreign shithole.

Where do you get that idea? The funds for war stay right here at home in most cases. Aid to foreign countries and contractor services overseas are about the only expenses in the military that does not stay here.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Why don't you compare similar jobs in the public and private sectors?
Public school teachers are paid more than twice as much as private school teachers with the same credentials. In california, health & safety (fire & police) retire at 90% of their highest salary after 30 years, and their spouses can continue to to receive these benefits for a miniscule (5%-10%) reduction. Even worse, they are considered disabled if they get any type of cancer or heart problems, which makes their retirement tax free. This then makes them eligible for low income tax credits. Wake up!!!!!

Another false statement! They do NOT have the same credentials.

You are on a roll! Run for governor or state office if your state is screwed up.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Why then do private schools out-perform public schools by such a wide margin?

Maybe we should pay less to teachers and more to the things that actually teach our kids.

They select their students and kick out those who do not perform. Did you really not know this already?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

In the public sector teachers are paid for 1. level of education and 2. time in grade.

In the private sector teachers are paid for their ability to teach - not based on the BS, MS, or PhD. that they have at the end of their name.

I have known a lot of PhD.s that couldn't teach anything to a student that wanted to learn simply because they didn't know how to communicate.

I taught for 20 years in the occupational safety field. I am a certified safety trainer and operator certification instructor. I can make between $100 and $300 per hour for certification of operators of industrial trucks. Twice that for cranes and almost tripple that amount for mining equipment.

I couldn't teach a third grader basic grammar in spite of my MS degree.

Yet you would be perfectly qualified to teach in just about every private school, yet not one public school. See the difference?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Public employee unions should only exist if they are barred from makiing campaign conributions of any kind.

Unlike any ther sort of union, these unions can hold their employers - elected officials - hostage by threatening to make effery effort to defeat them in the next election of they do net get what they want.

The Constitution says otherwise.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Public and private sector unions are funded by the same source: their members.

Public sector unions are PAID by people who are supposed to be representing the taxpayers, and it's naive to expect them to do that well when their campaigns are being paid for by unions.

And how, exactly, is that different than the myriad of industries that largely exist because of government contracts?

That's just one of the issues. Another problem is the nature of their job. They have a monopoly on the services they perform. If they choose to do a sick out or go on a "no extras at all until we get the contract we want" virtual strike and, for an example which happened here in Wisconsin, refuse to write references for students who are filling out college applications until they get their way, there's no place for those kids to turn.

The problems are not theoretical. They are on the record for everyone to see. Too many unsustainable promises made to the public unions without the natural checks and balances which exist for public sector unions.

Tons of unsustainable promises were made to private sector unions as well. It's interesting that conservatives are very much about "responsibility", unless responsibility requires people in positions of power, be they CEOs or politicians, actually following through. Then outright theft becomes okay, because, hey, those rubes in the union shouldn't really have expected the rules to apply to people in positions of power.

The MASSIVE difference is that the people that receive that service are LEGALLY bound to purchase it. Let’s take schools as a good example. If the teachers want to strike, their customers (the people) have no options. The money that they pay the school cannot be taken back and used somewhere else. They can’t take their business to another company. They cannot put that school out of business. In that regard, the customers are beholden to the service provider. There is no balancing power against that strike. If the teachers push to far, who cares? They will get their pay anyway and they are going to get a better contract. As I already pointed out, the politician who is ‘representing’ the people never actually has to pay for that. The people don’t even see the results until it is too late and the politician is likely sipping margaritas at his retirement home. OTOH, the fact that children are not able to go to school AND the people are still paying for that is VERY visible.

Now, compare that to a company. If the workers push to far, the company goes out of business or they replace the workers. That is simply not an option that is generally afforded to governmental agencies that use union employees. Companies have to balance this also with the real costs of doing business as a bad union deal can put them under where a bad deal with the government does… well… nothing at all to the parties involved.

So you ask how they are different. The easier question would be how are they the same? One does not resemble the other in any shape or form.

Teachers unions are banned by law from striking in about 95% of school districts nationwide. Your example just fell flat.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I so love these public union theads now a little girl working at Walmart making $8 bucks an hour, knows 10 bucks or her pay check goes to UNiON PUBLIC WORKERS that get $75 grand a year,,,,,That poor little girl trying to feed her 2 yearr old son and supporting that old 59 year old IRS worker making 75 grand a year.....

Maybe that little girl should have stayed in school, kept her legs closed, and gotten one of those higher paying jobs!

 

[longknife]

1. Public employees' total compensation is 50% higher than their private sector counterparts, not counting much greater job security.

2. Public employees do not need union protection because they are already covered by civil service regulations.

3. Making contributions to their employers (politicians) is an obvious conflict of interest that would constitute a felony in the private sector.

You just posted three false statements. Why?

Do you really need to ask?

 

[Polishprince]

are like Communism: Great in theory but terrible in practice. They now represent a new aristocracy which holds a knife to the throat of our democracy. If we don't give them what they demand, we will be punished...

I think you are looking at this wrong.

Public employee unions are in cahoots with left leaning politicians, and are involved in a money laundering scheme.

It gives the politicians access to pay of the pay of the public employees, so the taxpayers are funding liberalism through the dues money.

Fortunately, with the Janus decision, mandatory dues for public employees have been found unconstitutional.

 

[initforme]

If the unions were in favor of the gop there'd be no issue. People who cry about unions simply don't like to see workers do well. Gotta keep your thumb on them. Have to make sure they have no voice. Some teacher making 40 grand is an awful thing. I'm calling it what it is.....hogwash. feel free to ask your boss for less pay.

 

[martybegan]

Many a police officer wrongly accused of misconduct have been saved thanks to the representation of their public employee union, government workers are not slaves they have the right to union representation just like any other working person.

They have the right to find other work or be public servants. They dont have the right to hold taxpayers hostage for services if more money isn't given. That's extortion and thats the real problem.

And just as many guilty officers are protected from prosecution or even a loss of work for misconduct due to public union "respresentation".

Private sector unions are fine by me, public sector unions should be outlawed completely.

Union's job is to defend it's membership, just as a lawyer may have a guilty client and defend that client so must a union, and public employees have the same rights as any other employee and I still dont understand why the right wing targets working folks while giving big money interests a pass.

When defending its membership involves backroom deals with politicans to garner votes in exchange for sweetheart benefits deals that wont come to the cash register in 20 years, then we have a serious problem.

When a union and a private company negotiate, the union realizes it can only go so far, or it will put the company out of business. Public Unions know no such thing, as they see the taxpayer as an unlimted piggy bank, and the politicans they help get into office go right along with it.

Change your state and local laws because none of that applies to the federal government.

Why not? Why can't the fed kick the can down 20 years or so?

 

[Moonglow]

are like Communism: Great in theory but terrible in practice. They now represent a new aristocracy which holds a knife to the throat of our democracy. If we don't give them what they demand, we will be punished...

Yeah anybody but wealthy folks making good money is wrong to a republican, poverty for all they say at the RNC.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Many a police officer wrongly accused of misconduct have been saved thanks to the representation of their public employee union, government workers are not slaves they have the right to union representation just like any other working person.

They have the right to find other work or be public servants. They dont have the right to hold taxpayers hostage for services if more money isn't given. That's extortion and thats the real problem.

And just as many guilty officers are protected from prosecution or even a loss of work for misconduct due to public union "respresentation".

Private sector unions are fine by me, public sector unions should be outlawed completely.

Union's job is to defend it's membership, just as a lawyer may have a guilty client and defend that client so must a union, and public employees have the same rights as any other employee and I still dont understand why the right wing targets working folks while giving big money interests a pass.

When defending its membership involves backroom deals with politicans to garner votes in exchange for sweetheart benefits deals that wont come to the cash register in 20 years, then we have a serious problem.

When a union and a private company negotiate, the union realizes it can only go so far, or it will put the company out of business. Public Unions know no such thing, as they see the taxpayer as an unlimted piggy bank, and the politicans they help get into office go right along with it.

Change your state and local laws because none of that applies to the federal government.

Why not? Why can't the fed kick the can down 20 years or so?

Federal employment pay and benefits are not subject to collective bargaining.

The federal employees unions cannot argue for a pay raise or increase in benefits because their pay is set for all employees. A GS-8 working for the military gets the same pay and benefits as a GS-8 working for the National Parks Service and the GS-8 working for the Treasury Department, (with the exception of locality pay for high cost areas) even though they may belong to three different unions.

 

[Butch_Coolidge]

Many a police officer wrongly accused of misconduct have been saved thanks to the representation of their public employee union, government workers are not slaves they have the right to union representation just like any other working person.

They are not going away. Law enforcement officers have careers that can span 40 years. Most officers don’t have the right to strike, and wouldn’t consider it if they did. They are entitled to some assistance, when targeted to have benefits removed every couple years during contact negotiations.


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[Polishprince]

If the unions were in favor of the gop there'd be no issue. People who cry about unions simply don't like to see workers do well. Gotta keep your thumb on them. Have to make sure they have no voice. Some teacher making 40 grand is an awful thing. I'm calling it what it is.....hogwash. feel free to ask your boss for less pay.

Actually, you have it half assed backwards, init.

Big Labor is interested in keeping the workers down, so they can skim their paychecks for dues and be devoted to Big Labor's plan for big government. Where did you get the idea that union bosses like Jimmy Hoffa, Paul Castellano and Johnny Friendly are all altruistic?

If you look at the 1920's in US History, vs. the 1930's, you'll see how much Big Labor cares.

In the 1920's, unions were at their nadir. And there were 3 words to describe how the average working man was doing. Fab You Less.
The average working Joe bought their first electronics, their first automobile in the 1920's, American car culture and suburbia began to take off.

In the 1930's, unions rose to a zenith. The Wagner Act was passed,union shops became the norm. The average working stiff? Not so well, poverty was the norm. Read "Grapes of Wrath" to get an idea about how life was during the heyday of the Union Goons.

 

[SeaGal]

Here's something I find curious. Public Sector Unions - why do we need them?

Why do government employees need protection from a big powerful government from whom all blessings flow and we trust to manage our healthcare?

 

[initforme]

The corporatists want a cheap work force. It's so blatant. Hey, 20 dollars per hour is a good wage....NOT. it's really pathetic. Disgusting. Anti....fill in the blank.

 

[jwoodie]

Why don't you compare similar jobs in the public and private sectors?
Public school teachers are paid more than twice as much as private school teachers with the same credentials. In california, health & safety (fire & police) retire at 90% of their highest salary after 30 years, and their spouses can continue to to receive these benefits for a miniscule (5%-10%) reduction. Even worse, they are considered disabled if they get any type of cancer or heart problems, which makes their retirement tax free. This then makes them eligible for low income tax credits. Wake up!!!!!

Another false statement! They do NOT have the same credentials.

I did NOT say that public and private schools have the same credential requirements. I said that public school teachers are paid much more than private school teachers with the same credentials.