Ptsd And Weapons Possession

Here's the deal, about PTSD. It's sometimes used a cop-out when a member of the Military gets drunk and is arrested in a domestic disturbance. The requirements are so broad that a member of the Military doesn't even have to have been in combat. Cite PTSD and everything goes away. The other PTSD arena has to do with good old Uncle awarding a pension to those Vets. who claim to be so mentally incapacitated and prone to incoherent violence because of their time in the Military that they require compensation from the government. The symptoms of PTSD include violent outbursts and antisocial behavior. The question for society is whether we should allow persons with PTSD to "legally" purchase firearms while federal statutes prevent civilians from obtaining firearms for exhibiting the same behavior.
You are a liar. PTSD does not always include violence nor mayhem. Further there are no civilian statutes that remove 2nd amendment rights without a court order. By the way dumb ass Federal statutes apply to retired military and to veterans as well as active duty military. A lot of cops have PTSD as well. You are such a fucking liar.

There you go again confusing legitimate restrictions on the 2nd amendment with a mind numbing inaccurate view of the judicial system. Sure, federal statutes apply to retired Military as well as active duty Military and every other freaking citizen. Active Military personnel, retired Military, ass hole kids, stupid hippies, and metrosexual pop-culture elites are automatically restricted from purchasing a firearm if they are convicted of a crime in most states and if they cop a plea to "psychiatric counseling" to avoid conviction they are restricted from purchasing a firearm in most states. Active and retired Military just like the rest of us can have their weapons confiscated (without a court order) if they are arrested in a domestic disturbance in most states. Active and retired Military are both restricted from obtaining a firearm in most states if they are under court ordered psychiatric counseling for civilian related violations from DUI to substance abuse to domestic abuse. The glitch in the law is that the disability disorder of PTSD isn't usually included in the federal and state name check for purchasing a firearm even though it is a mental disorder requiring treatment. Based on two high profile PTSD related incidents I think the PTSD loophole should be closed.
You keep mentioning COURT ordered counseling, That means A JUDGE ordered it retard. Not a doctor.
 
Almost every freaking person in the Country has experienced traumatic stress at some time in their lives and they don't whine about bad dreams and fast heartbeats. The good people who work in emergency rooms in big cities see more trauma in a month than the average post WW2 Soldier ever did. Modern kids see more realistic trauma courtesy of Hollywood than WW2 Soldiers ever dreamed of. Cops see it close up and in their faces during their careers but if they get drunk and beat up their wives they don't get to cite PTSD, they just lose their jobs and and if they are convicted of misdemeanor domestic abuse they lose their 2nd Amendment right to purchase a gun in most states.
Actually a hell of a lot of cops have PTSD. Shall we disarm them too?

And to repeat for the slow and amazingly stupid.... It takes a Judge to remove your rights not a doctor.


I seriously doubt that Police Departments hire disabled Military PTSD patients. Almost everybody in the state and local emergency related field has seen more carnage in their careers than ordinary Soldiers and Marines have seen in their one year tour in harms way in the last three decades. There is no PTSD compensation for Police and emergency personnel. However if a Police officer in most states is convicted of domestic abuse he (or she) would be restricted to an area where they would not carry or possess a firearm if they were not fired outright.
Again part of the law, what part of that do you fail to understand? If a Judge orders it it is ok. As in court ordered sessions. A doctor does not remove the right to rights by any stretch of the imagination.

As for Cops tons of cops have PTSD, it goes with the job. They are not disarmed nor fired unless violent.
 
Almost every freaking person in the Country has experienced traumatic stress at some time in their lives and they don't whine about bad dreams and fast heartbeats. The good people who work in emergency rooms in big cities see more trauma in a month than the average post WW2 Soldier ever did. Modern kids see more realistic trauma courtesy of Hollywood than WW2 Soldiers ever dreamed of. Cops see it close up and in their faces during their careers but if they get drunk and beat up their wives they don't get to cite PTSD, they just lose their jobs and and if they are convicted of misdemeanor domestic abuse they lose their 2nd Amendment right to purchase a gun in most states.
Actually a hell of a lot of cops have PTSD. Shall we disarm them too?

And to repeat for the slow and amazingly stupid.... It takes a Judge to remove your rights not a doctor.


I seriously doubt that Police Departments hire disabled Military PTSD patients. Almost everybody in the state and local emergency related field has seen more carnage in their careers than ordinary Soldiers and Marines have seen in their one year tour in harms way in the last three decades. There is no PTSD compensation for Police and emergency personnel. However if a Police officer in most states is convicted of domestic abuse he (or she) would be restricted to an area where they would not carry or possess a firearm if they were not fired outright.
Again part of the law, what part of that do you fail to understand? If a Judge orders it it is ok. As in court ordered sessions. A doctor does not remove the right to rights by any stretch of the imagination.

As for Cops tons of cops have PTSD, it goes with the job. They are not disarmed nor fired unless violent.

"Tons of Cops have PTSD"? "PTSD" is a political Veterans issue and doesn't apply and it surely isn't diagnosed as a state and local Police issue and is not a defense in a civilian domestic abuse case. Cops lose their guns when they admit they have a mental issue problem. Why don't mental ill Veterans lose their right to purchase a firearm if they admit that their mental instability is so severe that their single year in harms way has impacted their ability to reason that the government has to compensate for their mental disorder?
 
Almost every freaking person in the Country has experienced traumatic stress at some time in their lives and they don't whine about bad dreams and fast heartbeats. The good people who work in emergency rooms in big cities see more trauma in a month than the average post WW2 Soldier ever did. Modern kids see more realistic trauma courtesy of Hollywood than WW2 Soldiers ever dreamed of. Cops see it close up and in their faces during their careers but if they get drunk and beat up their wives they don't get to cite PTSD, they just lose their jobs and and if they are convicted of misdemeanor domestic abuse they lose their 2nd Amendment right to purchase a gun in most states.
Actually a hell of a lot of cops have PTSD. Shall we disarm them too?

And to repeat for the slow and amazingly stupid.... It takes a Judge to remove your rights not a doctor.


I seriously doubt that Police Departments hire disabled Military PTSD patients. Almost everybody in the state and local emergency related field has seen more carnage in their careers than ordinary Soldiers and Marines have seen in their one year tour in harms way in the last three decades. There is no PTSD compensation for Police and emergency personnel. However if a Police officer in most states is convicted of domestic abuse he (or she) would be restricted to an area where they would not carry or possess a firearm if they were not fired outright.
Again part of the law, what part of that do you fail to understand? If a Judge orders it it is ok. As in court ordered sessions. A doctor does not remove the right to rights by any stretch of the imagination.

As for Cops tons of cops have PTSD, it goes with the job. They are not disarmed nor fired unless violent.

"Tons of Cops have PTSD"? "PTSD" is a political Veterans issue and doesn't apply and it surely isn't diagnosed as a state and local Police issue and is not a defense in a civilian domestic abuse case. Cops lose their guns when they admit they have a mental issue problem. Why don't mental ill Veterans lose their right to purchase a firearm if they admit that their mental instability is so severe that their single year in harms way has impacted their ability to reason that the government has to compensate for their mental disorder?
Do a little research dumb ass. And again if someone is so mental that a Doctor fears they are unstable he recommends to a court they be checked and a judge in a Court of law where the person in question has rights decides after a hearing.
 
And your point?

Well at some point if you are suffering PTSD you have said you have mental problems. I am sure there are tons of forms to get the disability from it and a few tests.

Can we just say anyone who is determined to be disabled due to PTSD is ineligible to own a gun? Heck, I'll give PTSD disability victims $1,000 more a year in exchange if that keeps whoever their lobbying group is happy. Lord knows the poor bastards deserve more.
Nope doesn't work that way. Once again for the slow and stupid, a JUDGE must rule you incompetent. Just because something disables you does not make you incompetent. I have delusional paranoia and recurring major depression am rated at 70 percent by VA and paid at the 100 percent rate. I can still own possess and carry firearms. And my shrink does not disagree. Nor my therapist.

We are talking about two different things. You can be arrested for lying about your mental condition on an ATF form. Surely everyone cares about crazy people buying firearms. The maniac who was responsible for the worst school shooting in history wasn't a Vet but he slipped through the system and was able to purchase firearms even though he was insane because privacy issues about mental illness trumped the safety of citizens. The loophole has been corrected in Virginia and court ordered psychiatric counseling shows up in the instant name check. You can prevent criminals and mental patients from purchasing firearms by the instant name check but it does take a court order to confiscate firearms.

PTSD does not equate to crazy.

Aren't people declared disabled because of it?

What does PTSD usually do to folks?
It doesn't make them drive into Mexico. Which is nothing he ever claimed so the thread was started with a lie.
 
The reality of modern life is that Cops endure more episodes of trauma in their 20 years of service than the average Soldier who gets about seven months in harms way even gets to get nightmares about. What's the point? Cops who cop out to PTSD get on the name check system for most states and they can't purchase a weapon. The actors and phonies who receive a freaking Military PTSD pension for their acting ability are able to use the certification as a defense in felony cases and purchase a firearm arsenal even though everyone in the system thinks they are victims of freaking mental illness.
 
In Feb of 2013 a former Marine named Eddie Ray Routh murdered former Navy Seal Chris Kyle and another Veteran Chad Littlefield at a gun range in Texas. The motive was unclear but the attorneys for Routh will base their defense on PTSD. Former Marine Sgt. (wrong way) Tahmooressi ended up in Mexico with a trunk full of weapons. His defense ....PTSD. Wouldn't it be prudent to prevent PTSD patients from possessing deadly weapons until they are cleared by government psychiatrists?
Wouldn't it be better if the VA did their fucking job and treated our vets as soon as they got home?

I blame Oklahoma City bombing on the VA, and its refusal to do its job.

But, blanket violation of returning GI's rights is not the answer.
 
In Feb of 2013 a former Marine named Eddie Ray Routh murdered former Navy Seal Chris Kyle and another Veteran Chad Littlefield at a gun range in Texas. The motive was unclear but the attorneys for Routh will base their defense on PTSD. Former Marine Sgt. (wrong way) Tahmooressi ended up in Mexico with a trunk full of weapons. His defense ....PTSD. Wouldn't it be prudent to prevent PTSD patients from possessing deadly weapons until they are cleared by government psychiatrists?
Wrong, one must have reasonable grounds for claiming someone lose their rights due to mental illness. If you suspect someone report them and let the authorities decide what to do. In the US one does not have to justify the use of their rights, one must justify taking rights away. Further Psychiatrists do not decide if one loses their rights a Court does that. A Judge must rule you incompetent.


Wrong gunny. The ATF form asks if the applicant is currently undergoing treatment for mental illness. Crazy people are (rightfully) denied permission to purchase a firearm. There is no further judicial review. Now, if the government decides to confiscate weapons it is another issue.
Print the form.

The one I filled out last week when I bought a rifle did not ask that.
 
In Feb of 2013 a former Marine named Eddie Ray Routh murdered former Navy Seal Chris Kyle and another Veteran Chad Littlefield at a gun range in Texas. The motive was unclear but the attorneys for Routh will base their defense on PTSD. Former Marine Sgt. (wrong way) Tahmooressi ended up in Mexico with a trunk full of weapons. His defense ....PTSD. Wouldn't it be prudent to prevent PTSD patients from possessing deadly weapons until they are cleared by government psychiatrists?
Wrong, one must have reasonable grounds for claiming someone lose their rights due to mental illness. If you suspect someone report them and let the authorities decide what to do. In the US one does not have to justify the use of their rights, one must justify taking rights away. Further Psychiatrists do not decide if one loses their rights a Court does that. A Judge must rule you incompetent.


Wrong gunny. The ATF form asks if the applicant is currently undergoing treatment for mental illness. Crazy people are (rightfully) denied permission to purchase a firearm. There is no further judicial review. Now, if the government decides to confiscate weapons it is another issue.
Incorrect.

The 4473 asks nothing about currently receiving mental health treatment:

“Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes a determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that you are a danger to yourself or to others or are incompetent to manage your own affairs) OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution? (See Instructions for Question 11.f.)”

Only after someone has been afforded due process can an issue of mental health be a factor in determining whether or not one may be allowed possession of a firearm.
In Feb of 2013 a former Marine named Eddie Ray Routh murdered former Navy Seal Chris Kyle and another Veteran Chad Littlefield at a gun range in Texas. The motive was unclear but the attorneys for Routh will base their defense on PTSD. Former Marine Sgt. (wrong way) Tahmooressi ended up in Mexico with a trunk full of weapons. His defense ....PTSD. Wouldn't it be prudent to prevent PTSD patients from possessing deadly weapons until they are cleared by government psychiatrists?
Wrong, one must have reasonable grounds for claiming someone lose their rights due to mental illness. If you suspect someone report them and let the authorities decide what to do. In the US one does not have to justify the use of their rights, one must justify taking rights away. Further Psychiatrists do not decide if one loses their rights a Court does that. A Judge must rule you incompetent.


Wrong gunny. The ATF form asks if the applicant is currently undergoing treatment for mental illness. Crazy people are (rightfully) denied permission to purchase a firearm. There is no further judicial review. Now, if the government decides to confiscate weapons it is another issue.
Incorrect.

The 4473 asks nothing about currently receiving mental health treatment:

“Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes a determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that you are a danger to yourself or to others or are incompetent to manage your own affairs) OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution? (See Instructions for Question 11.f.)”

Only after someone has been afforded due process can an issue of mental health be a factor in determining whether or not one may be allowed possession of a firearm.


The word "adjudicated" has been broadened in a federal statute signed by the president to include "persons who were ordered to receive outpatient mental health treatment". In the case of the maniac who murdered 32 people in Va. Tech in 2007 he was ordered by a local court to receive outpatient mental health treatment instead of having a criminal record for stalking coeds at the university.
I remember watching SWAT teams at VT putting on their fancy gear in no apparent hurry, as students lined up like sheep to be executed by a guy that should have by all rightful means been in a mental institution.

But. lets blame the guns.
 
Here's the deal, about PTSD. It's sometimes used a cop-out when a member of the Military gets drunk and is arrested in a domestic disturbance. The requirements are so broad that a member of the Military doesn't even have to have been in combat. Cite PTSD and everything goes away. The other PTSD arena has to do with good old Uncle awarding a pension to those Vets. who claim to be so mentally incapacitated and prone to incoherent violence because of their time in the Military that they require compensation from the government. The symptoms of PTSD include violent outbursts and antisocial behavior. The question for society is whether we should allow persons with PTSD to "legally" purchase firearms while federal statutes prevent civilians from obtaining firearms for exhibiting the same behavior.
You are a liar. PTSD does not always include violence nor mayhem. Further there are no civilian statutes that remove 2nd amendment rights without a court order. By the way dumb ass Federal statutes apply to retired military and to veterans as well as active duty military. A lot of cops have PTSD as well. You are such a fucking liar.

There you go again confusing legitimate restrictions on the 2nd amendment with a mind numbing inaccurate view of the judicial system. Sure, federal statutes apply to retired Military as well as active duty Military and every other freaking citizen. Active Military personnel, retired Military, ass hole kids, stupid hippies, and metrosexual pop-culture elites are automatically restricted from purchasing a firearm if they are convicted of a crime in most states and if they cop a plea to "psychiatric counseling" to avoid conviction they are restricted from purchasing a firearm in most states. Active and retired Military just like the rest of us can have their weapons confiscated (without a court order) if they are arrested in a domestic disturbance in most states. Active and retired Military are both restricted from obtaining a firearm in most states if they are under court ordered psychiatric counseling for civilian related violations from DUI to substance abuse to domestic abuse. The glitch in the law is that the disability disorder of PTSD isn't usually included in the federal and state name check for purchasing a firearm even though it is a mental disorder requiring treatment. Based on two high profile PTSD related incidents I think the PTSD loophole should be closed.
You keep mentioning COURT ordered counseling, That means A JUDGE ordered it retard. Not a doctor.
Do you think he looked up "adjudicated"?
 
The reality of modern life is that Cops endure more episodes of trauma in their 20 years of service than the average Soldier who gets about seven months in harms way even gets to get nightmares about. What's the point? Cops who cop out to PTSD get on the name check system for most states and they can't purchase a weapon. The actors and phonies who receive a freaking Military PTSD pension for their acting ability are able to use the certification as a defense in felony cases and purchase a firearm arsenal even though everyone in the system thinks they are victims of freaking mental illness.
You claimed that cops did not suffer from PTSD. As for the claim they lose their rights to firearms what part of a Judge must adjudicate you incompetent do you not understand?
 
In Feb of 2013 a former Marine named Eddie Ray Routh murdered former Navy Seal Chris Kyle and another Veteran Chad Littlefield at a gun range in Texas. The motive was unclear but the attorneys for Routh will base their defense on PTSD. Former Marine Sgt. (wrong way) Tahmooressi ended up in Mexico with a trunk full of weapons. His defense ....PTSD. Wouldn't it be prudent to prevent PTSD patients from possessing deadly weapons until they are cleared by government psychiatrists?
Wrong, one must have reasonable grounds for claiming someone lose their rights due to mental illness. If you suspect someone report them and let the authorities decide what to do. In the US one does not have to justify the use of their rights, one must justify taking rights away. Further Psychiatrists do not decide if one loses their rights a Court does that. A Judge must rule you incompetent.


Wrong gunny. The ATF form asks if the applicant is currently undergoing treatment for mental illness. Crazy people are (rightfully) denied permission to purchase a firearm. There is no further judicial review. Now, if the government decides to confiscate weapons it is another issue.
Incorrect.

The 4473 asks nothing about currently receiving mental health treatment:

“Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes a determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that you are a danger to yourself or to others or are incompetent to manage your own affairs) OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution? (See Instructions for Question 11.f.)”

Only after someone has been afforded due process can an issue of mental health be a factor in determining whether or not one may be allowed possession of a firearm.
In Feb of 2013 a former Marine named Eddie Ray Routh murdered former Navy Seal Chris Kyle and another Veteran Chad Littlefield at a gun range in Texas. The motive was unclear but the attorneys for Routh will base their defense on PTSD. Former Marine Sgt. (wrong way) Tahmooressi ended up in Mexico with a trunk full of weapons. His defense ....PTSD. Wouldn't it be prudent to prevent PTSD patients from possessing deadly weapons until they are cleared by government psychiatrists?
Wrong, one must have reasonable grounds for claiming someone lose their rights due to mental illness. If you suspect someone report them and let the authorities decide what to do. In the US one does not have to justify the use of their rights, one must justify taking rights away. Further Psychiatrists do not decide if one loses their rights a Court does that. A Judge must rule you incompetent.


Wrong gunny. The ATF form asks if the applicant is currently undergoing treatment for mental illness. Crazy people are (rightfully) denied permission to purchase a firearm. There is no further judicial review. Now, if the government decides to confiscate weapons it is another issue.
Incorrect.

The 4473 asks nothing about currently receiving mental health treatment:

“Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes a determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that you are a danger to yourself or to others or are incompetent to manage your own affairs) OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution? (See Instructions for Question 11.f.)”

Only after someone has been afforded due process can an issue of mental health be a factor in determining whether or not one may be allowed possession of a firearm.


The word "adjudicated" has been broadened in a federal statute signed by the president to include "persons who were ordered to receive outpatient mental health treatment". In the case of the maniac who murdered 32 people in Va. Tech in 2007 he was ordered by a local court to receive outpatient mental health treatment instead of having a criminal record for stalking coeds at the university.
I remember watching SWAT teams at VT putting on their fancy gear in no apparent hurry, as students lined up like sheep to be executed by a guy that should have by all rightful means been in a mental institution.

But. lets blame the guns.
Dumb assed Cops in Blacksburg Va were interviewing witnesses in what they considered to be a domestic abuse case on the VT campus while a maniac was still murdering students and faculty while they were dong their stupid drone job. The shooter received special treatment from the same dumb assed Cops because they were conditioned to give Virginia Tech students special treatment because liberal faculty pretty much ran the political system.
 

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