Debate Now Prove your case! Is Homosexuality genetic or a choice?

Discussion in 'Debate Now - Structured Discussion Forum' started by TemplarKormac, Mar 6, 2015.

  1. emilynghiem
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    emilynghiem Constitutionalist / Universalist Supporting Member

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    Hi Asclepias, If it were necessary to take you up in the Bullring on this, I would.
    But you are intelligent and committed enough to logic and truth, it wouldn't be necessary.
    Either this issue will end in a tie, where either side is faith based, it COULD be genetic,
    it COULD be from "chemical/hormonal conditions in the womb but NOT genetic"
    it COULD be spiritual, or some cases COULD be explained as the result
    from unnatural abuse that was environmental, so when that healed that explains people who have been able to change
    their orientation.
    Or at the very least, we'd at least agree there is no proof it is genetic.

    Here are some points:
    1. Race is proven to be genetic. the genetic makeup of each person is determined by
    the genetic mix contributed from both parents.
    Environment does not determine or change one's race,
    but can influence culture and behavior, just not physical race which is genetic.
    2. there is nothing to show this for homosexuality or heterosexuality.
    In fact, studies on identical twins show "at most" a contested figure of around 50% correlation and
    even THAT figure is contested. If it were solely genetic, there would be 100% match in orientation between twins!
    So if anything, there may be tendency, but some other social (or spiritual) factors that determine orientation.

    3. Lastly YES there ARE people who DO report changing their orientation.
    Either changing from heterosexual identity to "coming out" as homosexual.
    Or others who identify as homosexual, then later reconcile with what they
    claim to be their natural orientation and come out heterosexual.

    Here are two people who no longer identify as homosexual:
    a. Charlene Blasio
    De Blasio’s wife Chirlane McCray talks about lesbian past

    b. Janet Boynes
    President Obama has an 'ex-gay' problem

    Asclepias, of all people, I trust you can understand that orientation is not genetically determined like race.
    We cannot change our race, but yes, people have changed when it comes to identity and orientation.

    I would equate it more with someone's spiritual or religious identity.
    Once a person finds what they are, they tend to stick to that;
    they have a RIGHT to the identity of choice WITHOUT having to "prove it is genetic" like race is.

    Some people DO change their religious denomination, identity or affiliation.
    Others may not be able to, even though this isn't necessarily "genetically" determined.

    Someone who is Atheist cannot always choose to change their minds to be
    a theist or a Christian. Some can, but some will always think the way they do and "can't help"
    what they believe or don't believe. Same with political beliefs, some are so inherent
    in that person's core, they cannot choose to change their beliefs even if they wanted to and tried to.
    But beliefs are not genetic, and are considered a matter of free choice for individuals that the govt
    cannot establish, prohibit, penalize or discriminate against.

    4. Lastly Asclepias who said that all cases of orientation
    have to be the same, who said they all have to be genetic
    or all have to be a choice of behavior? What if some cases
    are unnatural and caused by abuse from environmental and social influences.
    But other cases are inborn and not a choice?
    What if some are genetic, some caused by hormonal changes in the womb but not genetic,
    and others are from abuse or other environmental factors?

    Can you follow any of these arguments and agree that either
    SOME cases may not be genetic
    SOME cases could change even though others do not or cannot
    or NONE have been proven to be genetic.

    If we can even agree that SOME may change while others may not,
    that's enough to say not all cases are genetic (or possibly none of them are)

    Thanks Asclepias
    c. Also I know someone personally who consulted with a trusted doctor on whether
    homosexual or bisexual orientation was inborn. the doctor, a psychiatrist had done
    extensive research on this and reported he found NO studies no research no evidence
    or anything to show it was genetic or caused by something that couldn't change.
    (I would say it is still possible there are prenatal hormonal conditions that
    could affect the neurological development of the brain, since the brains
    have been reported as showing a difference with homosexual orientation.)

    What's important is that AFTER my friend received this confirmation from
    a well respected doctor, that friend CHANGED their thinking, decided they
    didn't have to be bisexual, and no longer felt or identified as that. They personally
    told me it was receiving this confirmation that it wasn't genetic but was a choice,
    that empowered them to choose NOT to identify any longer as bisexual.

    That person was able to change their orientation as a conscious choice.
    Perhaps not everyone can do this, but many people do report changing
    their identity or orientation.
     
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  2. emilynghiem
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    emilynghiem Constitutionalist / Universalist Supporting Member

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    Hi Spare_change
    I would say it is the spiritual relationship between two people
    that determines both their attraction and if they act on it romantically or platonically.

    Their gender, race or religion can be an additional factor
    in the process and experiences they go through in life in order to grow.

    People love each other "despite" the differences that present challenges in life.
    Many people fall in love "despite" the fact that race or religion
    created a conflict they had to overcome.
    I find the same is true when it comes to orientation
    and now with gender identity.

    Who the person is spiritually, and what path and purpose they play out in life,
    seems to come first, and all other factors follow from there.

    So when you put any two people together in a relationship,
    that is multiples the spiritual dynamic by three
    the two people who are both unique spiritual beings
    and the relationship between them which is unique to those two souls.

    I find that is what determines the attraction (or conflicts) between them
    and how they act on that relationship.
     
  3. ScienceRocks
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    ScienceRocks Democrat all the way!

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    If people are coming out in nations that will get you killed for doing so...I'd say it is likely genetic as these people risk their lives to do it.
     
  4. Tipsycatlover
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    Tipsycatlover Gold Member

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    The behavior is a choice. There are many feelings and impulses. Not everyone gives in to them.
     
  5. Asclepias
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    Asclepias Diamond Member

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    If you have the urge to have sex with someone of the same sex you are gay by definition. You dont have to do anything to be gay. Its the attraction which is genetic.
     
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  6. ScienceRocks
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    ScienceRocks Democrat all the way!

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    Gays are human beings that deserve human rights and constitutional freedoms just like everyone else. The reason you're arguing this point is to attempt to justify your blood letting and lust to kill them.

    My point above stands that if people are willing to be gay within a very hostile environment then chances are it is instinctive and has its roots in genetics.

    How would you christians feel if I said that you're a bunch of rapist and cult members that lust to undermine civilization? And that you shouldn't be seen as human???
     
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  7. Ernie S.
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    Ernie S. Diamond Member

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    It's all very simple. Homosexuality can't be genetic. The vast majority of gays do not have children to pass on the "gay gene" so the trait would have died out millennia ago.
     
  8. Asclepias
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    Asclepias Diamond Member

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    So youre claiming that it cant be genetic because they dont have children? That doesnt make sense. There are animals that are gay. Its clear that being gay is natures attempt at population control. My guess would be that about 10% of any population is born gay.
     
  9. RWNJ
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    RWNJ BANNED

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    If someone could show me the gay gene, I might change my mind.
     

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