Protectionism

[antagon]

Yay or Nay?

How?

Why? Why not?​

 

[Madeline]

Most likely it depends on the goods, antagon...and matters of world economics that're beyond me. As to agriculture, I see little reason the US should be importing food stuffs. We ought to prefer to eat our own. Light manufacturing, I think, needs protecting to some degree at least. Heavy manufacturing, no. If we cannot marshall the natural resources and economies of scale, then we should prolly buy foreign made goods.

 

[antagon]

i'm thinking that the US has suffered from the wrong type of heavy-industry protectionism. i think that had our heavy industries been supported, rather than merely privileged with tariffs quotas and mandates, that their state would not be so grim at the moment. i think subsidy is the formula for protectionism. at least with industry.

i think subsidy has hurt agriculture on the other hand. maybe tariffs and quotas might do us better in that dept. dunno.

 

[editec]

Protectionism?

Yes

How?

Fair trade policies

Why?

Because I am a nationalist who has seen the pernicious and economically destructive outcome of the last 60 years of these so called FREE TRADE policies.

 

[antagon]

editec, what do you mean by fair trade policies? do you mean being nice to coffee growers in columbia fair trade?

 

[johnrocks]

Absolutely not! I work for my money and I should have the freedom to buy what I want and if that means a car made in China with parts from North Korea or Cuban cigars then I should have the freedom to do so , besides, true free trade would expand commerce, not restrict and that would help our economy grow, what we have now is NOT free trade, it's managed trade.

 

[antagon]

Absolutely not! I work for my money and I should have the freedom to buy what I want and if that means a car made in China with parts from North Korea or Cuban cigars then I should have the freedom to do so , besides, true free trade would expand commerce, not restrict and that would help our economy grow, what we have now is NOT free trade, it's managed trade.

it is possible that true free trade might expand commerce on an international scale, but countries have to concern themselves with the prosperity within their borders. introducing externalities to commerce is the way which governments employ a nation's economy to serve the concern of national prosperity. do you believe that a world economy is realistic? what makes you think that true free trade will make our economy grow?

 

[johnrocks]

Absolutely not! I work for my money and I should have the freedom to buy what I want and if that means a car made in China with parts from North Korea or Cuban cigars then I should have the freedom to do so , besides, true free trade would expand commerce, not restrict and that would help our economy grow, what we have now is NOT free trade, it's managed trade.

it is possible that true free trade might expand commerce on an international scale, but countries have to concern themselves with the prosperity within their borders. introducing externalities to commerce is the way which governments employ a nation's economy to serve the concern of national prosperity. do you believe that a world economy is realistic? what makes you think that true free trade will make our economy grow?

If we allowed true free trade, markets would open up for our products from Cuba to Brazil to Asia. There are emerging markets out there that we can't even compete with to even see if it would make our market grow.

I'm not saying that I KNOW that it would or wouldn't but I think that I should have the freedom to buy from who I want and I have enough confidence in America's ability to compete with anyone that I'm willing to support free trade; not the managed trade that we now have.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Most likely it depends on the goods, antagon...and matters of world economics that're beyond me. As to agriculture, I see little reason the US should be importing food stuffs. We ought to prefer to eat our own. Light manufacturing, I think, needs protecting to some degree at least. Heavy manufacturing, no. If we cannot marshall the natural resources and economies of scale, then we should prolly buy foreign made goods.

You bashed me for this in another thread

 

[WillowTree]

I say yay especially when it comes to the US producing and utilizing her own sources of energy.

 

[loosecannon]

Yay or Nay?

How?

Why? Why not?​

Yay. Esp in response to the pegged yuan.

The Chinese esp practice strictly protectionist econ planning and policy. So should we.

I am deeply uncomfortable with the middle ground between nationalism and globalization.

 

[Madeline]

Absolutely not! I work for my money and I should have the freedom to buy what I want and if that means a car made in China with parts from North Korea or Cuban cigars then I should have the freedom to do so , besides, true free trade would expand commerce, not restrict and that would help our economy grow, what we have now is NOT free trade, it's managed trade.

"True free trade" cannot exist, John, unless every other nation on Planet Earth repeals all its tariffs, etc. If US goods are subject to an excise tax in China but Chinese goods face no such burden when sold in the US, that is not free trade.

It's disguised foreign aid to China.

 

[Madeline]

Most likely it depends on the goods, antagon...and matters of world economics that're beyond me. As to agriculture, I see little reason the US should be importing food stuffs. We ought to prefer to eat our own. Light manufacturing, I think, needs protecting to some degree at least. Heavy manufacturing, no. If we cannot marshall the natural resources and economies of scale, then we should prolly buy foreign made goods.

You bashed me for this in another thread

Linkiepoo, or it didn't happen.

 

[LibocalypseNow]

The terms 'Protectionism' and 'Isolationism' have been bastardized for so long by dishonest politicians that i think their meanings have been distorted forever. Most people use these terms to describe anything or anyone who doesn't fully support unfettered Globalism and Interventionism. In my humble opinion,a bit more 'Protectionism' and 'Isolationism' are exactly what this country needs at this point. I am vehemently opposed to unfettered Globalism and Interventionism.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Most likely it depends on the goods, antagon...and matters of world economics that're beyond me. As to agriculture, I see little reason the US should be importing food stuffs. We ought to prefer to eat our own. Light manufacturing, I think, needs protecting to some degree at least. Heavy manufacturing, no. If we cannot marshall the natural resources and economies of scale, then we should prolly buy foreign made goods.

You bashed me for this in another thread

Linkiepoo, or it didn't happen.

My appolgies wrong thread.

 

[Big Fitz]

Protectionism is not a simple issue.

I say I am FOR protectionism when dealing with other nations who use unfair trade tactics such as artificially pegging currency, barring markets to importation/exportation, prohibitive tariffs, state supported industries, slave labor and other similar forms. In those situations, similar actions to erase their artificial advantage could and in most cases, SHOULD be applied.

There are also 'cultural' reasons for utilizing trade protectionism and that is when you have a more primitive culture 'bootstrapping' itself at our expense. Look at India. I think on one hand it's great for that society to pull itself up from the depths of really the iron age in some places where poverty and starvation are norms in life. But how they are doing it, by enticing businesses out of the US by exceedingly low wages (which by their culture are high) cause more damage to our nation than theirs. Mind you, low skill, menial labor jobs really have a good reason to be outsourced, but others... not so much.

Of course when we are talking of cultural/national equals, such as the Anglosphere and Japan, most of Europe, South Korea Israel, and possibly even Russia I'm more for free trade. They are not going to 'lowball' us unless they utilize unfair competition tactics like pegged currency and nationalized industries. Then you are looking at more situational protectionism. For instance say S. Korean steel is selling on the open market at 45% of the international average with the exception of the Ukraine which is only 25% less. It turns out the reason they can lowball the market like that is because they are subsidizing losses with taxation making it a 'nationalized' industry. The Ukraine on the other hand just discovered a HUGE deposit of iron near their coal deposits and are going through a boom right now. This advantage is new and not due to politics. S. Korean Steel should be hit with a 45% tariff, while the Ukraine's steel should not be. Luck should not be penalized because they have optimal conditions. Maybe the harder competition will weed out inefficient producers or force the industry to make themselves better. Once the lodes wear out, the Ukraine would return back to normal. A nationalized industry perpetuates as long as people put up with it.

That's why free trade MUST be carefully done, and not willy nilly without regard for why a foreign nation is kicking our ass in trade.

 

[loosecannon]

The terms 'Protectionism' and 'Isolationism' have been bastardized for so long by dishonest politicians that i think their meanings have been distorted forever. Most people use these terms to describe anything or anyone who doesn't fully support unfettered Globalism and Interventionism. In my humble opinion,a bit more 'Protectionism' and 'Isolationism' are exactly what this country needs at this point. I am vehemently opposed to unfettered Globalism and Interventionism.

Protectionism almost always means protecting one's own industries by imposing tarriffs to avoid dumping by foreign firms.

I am not at all opposed to expanding the meaning of the term to include newer methods like currency manipulation, subsidies etc.

But there are hundreds of words that are, as you say, stretched beyond recognition.

I take it you opposed using our stimulus to support Canadian steel and Swiss banks?

 

[jillian]

The terms 'Protectionism' and 'Isolationism' have been bastardized for so long by dishonest politicians that i think their meanings have been distorted forever. Most people use these terms to describe anything or anyone who doesn't fully support unfettered Globalism and Interventionism. In my humble opinion,a bit more 'Protectionism' and 'Isolationism' are exactly what this country needs at this point. I am vehemently opposed to unfettered Globalism and Interventionism.

funny... the one i see misusing terms is you.

the terms protectionism and isolationism are pretty clear.

 

[Missourian]

To be honest...I'm not an economist and I don't have a firm grasp on the consequences of protectionism.

But what anyone with with the most basic understanding of arithmetic knows is Americans cannot maintain their standard of living while at the same time competing with a foreign workforce that can subsist on a fraction of the prevailing American wage.

That's just common sense...their Standard of living will go up and ours will be reduced until an equilibrium is reached.

That's a great deal for them, but for the American work force and the American way of life it will be disastrous.

My main street based opinion is I think a little protectionism could go a long way.

 

[johnrocks]

The terms 'Protectionism' and 'Isolationism' have been bastardized for so long by dishonest politicians that i think their meanings have been distorted forever. Most people use these terms to describe anything or anyone who doesn't fully support unfettered Globalism and Interventionism. In my humble opinion,a bit more 'Protectionism' and 'Isolationism' are exactly what this country needs at this point. I am vehemently opposed to unfettered Globalism and Interventionism.

funny... the one i see misusing terms is you.

the terms protectionism and isolationism are pretty clear.

I see "isolationism" misused all the time, you don't want to be intervening in other people's business does not mean you want to isolate yourself from the world.

I have not followed "protectionism" as closely but ;imho; the term "free trade" gets misused quite often.