Propublica wins a Pulitzer

[Twin Fist]

again, for the slow


dems social engineering -> sub prime lending -> fannie and freddie

not much else involved. this isnt opinion, it is historical FACT

 

[g5000]

In late 2005, the booming U.S. housing market seemed to be slowing. The Federal Reserve had begun raising interest rates. Subprime mortgage company shares were falling. Investors began to balk at buying complex mortgage securities. The housing bubble, which had propelled a historic growth in home prices, seemed poised to deflate. And if it had, the great financial crisis of 2008, which produced the Great Recession of 2008-09, might have come sooner and been less severe.

At just that moment, a few savvy financial engineers at a suburban Chicago hedge fund helped revive the Wall Street money machine, spawning billions of dollars of securities ultimately backed by home mortgages.

When the crash came, nearly all of these securities became worthless, a loss of an estimated $40 billion paid by investors, the investment banks who helped bring them into the world, and, eventually, American taxpayers.

People don't like to take the time to learn how this giant scheme worked. These kinds of massive fraud are extremely complex, and very few people want to take the trouble to find out.

It is easier to not bother to learn and just blame someone who took out a loan as the chief culprit. This is the Fox News and CNBC base demographic.

And as long as the common person never learns how it works, the bad guys can keep doing it. And the rubes will not understand the need for a real cop with real powers on the Wall Street beat.

 

[g5000]

again, for the slow


dems social engineering -> sub prime lending -> fannie and freddie

not much else involved. this isnt opinion, it is historical FACT

Your bumper sticker logic has gigantic holes of ignorance in it.

You clearly drank the CRA bongwater.

 

[Twin Fist]

or people could. i dont know, maybe NOT take out loans they KNOW they cant payback.....

 

[Twin Fist]

and i am supposed to take your.....clearly informed word for this? over all the actual....facts i looked up?

I think not.

again, for the slow


dems social engineering -> sub prime lending -> fannie and freddie

not much else involved. this isnt opinion, it is historical FACT

Your bumper sticker logic has gigantic holes of ignorance in it.

You clearly drank the CRA bongwater.

 

[Crackerjack]

and i am supposed to take your.....clearly informed word for this? over all the actual....facts i looked up?

Yes, because he said "bongwater," thus he is cool and smart.

 

[g5000]

again, for the slow


dems social engineering -> sub prime lending -> fannie and freddie

I don't see the CFMA in there. I don't see the FSMA in there. I don't see Lehman Brothers, Goldman Sachs, Bear Stearns, UBS, Deutsche Bank, Allied Irish Bank, the people of Ireland, Iceland, Spain, France, Germany, or England in there. I don't see CDOs, CDS, Phil Gramm, Standard & Poors, Fitch, or Moody's in there.

I don't seen any real intelligence in there at all.

 

[Avatar4321]

How exactly are you a victim if you borrow money and dont pay it back?

To truthmatters it is like a bank robber is a victim because he lost his job so he had to rob a bank to support his family, hence he is a victim. Doesn't matter that he committed a crime and is a criminal.

why is it you fools are pretending we are not talking about the lending institutions who switched loans on borrowers after they signed?

You are defending fucking criminal behavior to take a cheap assed shot at me personally.

You people have no shred of morals left

Actually, I defend criminal behavior for a living. See, i believe in justice. and I don't like it when ignorant people try to railroad others.

 

[Truthmatters]

and this is what the truth in this world is up against.

This is the republican way of debating any subject here.

You supply them with verifiable facts and they cluck like a gaggle of chickens doing nothing more than spouting right wing tlaking points and personal insults.

It will kill their party.

 

[g5000]

and i am supposed to take your.....clearly informed word for this? over all the actual....facts i looked up?

Yes, because he said "bongwater," thus he is cool and smart.

The two posts on page 2 of this topic that I made explain why only a fool believes CRA had anything to do with the GLOBAL credit crisis.

For example, Lehman Brothers had its own supply chain for mortgages in the secondary market. It was not subject to "dems social engineering", whatever the fuck that means. It was not dependent on Fannie and Freddie.

And "dems social engineering" had fuck-all to do with the CDO market, which is what actually brought down our economy.

 

[Avatar4321]

Note the fools here just to insult me and they ignore the entire subject of the thread?


man the right needs a new braintrust.

Note, that not even TM bothers arguing the subject of the thread. In fact, any time she doesn't like it, she starts complaining about something else.

Please TM. How are people who borrow money and dont pay it back victims?

 

[Amelia]

and this is what the truth in this world is up against.

This is the republican way of debating any subject here.

You supply them with verifiable facts and they cluck like a gaggle of chickens doing nothing more than spouting right wing tlaking points and personal insults.

It will kill their party.

What debate?

You posted a link and called people names.

I never would have imagined that was the way to build a constructive discourse. I have so much to learn from you.

 

[g5000]

While you may or may not believe I can speak to this issue with any authority, if anyone out there is actually serious about wanting to hear from an authority on the world of structured finance and how crazy it has become, then I highly recommend [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Traders-Guns-Money-unknowns-derivatives/dp/0273704745]Traders, Guns & Money: Knowns and unknowns in the dazzling world of derivatives[/ame].

This was written before the latest crash by a man who spent three decades in structured finance. It is non-partisan. He writes about the evolution of derivatives over the past 30+ years with good humor and sharp criticism.

When you read it, it will eventually dawn on you that the current global credit crisis is just one of many such crises created by Wall Street's derivatives market over the years. The very definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.

In the face of that reality, some parroting nimrod going on about the CRA and "dems social engineering" becomes quite hilarious.

Enjoy the book. It's good stuff and since it was written before the current crash it does not have an agenda.

 

[Truthmatters]

and this is what the truth in this world is up against.

This is the republican way of debating any subject here.

You supply them with verifiable facts and they cluck like a gaggle of chickens doing nothing more than spouting right wing tlaking points and personal insults.

It will kill their party.

What debate?

You posted a link and called people names.

I never would have imagined that was the way to build a constructive discourse. I have so much to learn from you.

Nope I posted a link that proves what happened was not what you right wing clowns said it was.

I then outlined for you what it meant.

I tossed in a few stupids and idiots because they are well deserved.

You merey ignored all the real subject matter and went for the only part of the conversation you understood.

the names.

 

[Truthmatters]

Note the fools here just to insult me and they ignore the entire subject of the thread?


man the right needs a new braintrust.

Note, that not even TM bothers arguing the subject of the thread. In fact, any time she doesn't like it, she starts complaining about something else.

Please TM. How are people who borrow money and dont pay it back victims?

I thought you claimed to have read the article?

you didnt did you?

 

[Truthmatters]

The Wall Street Money Machine - ProPublica

Try actually reading the information given you for once

 

[Amelia]

and this is what the truth in this world is up against.

This is the republican way of debating any subject here.

You supply them with verifiable facts and they cluck like a gaggle of chickens doing nothing more than spouting right wing tlaking points and personal insults.

It will kill their party.

What debate?

You posted a link and called people names.

I never would have imagined that was the way to build a constructive discourse. I have so much to learn from you.

Nope I posted a link that proves what happened was not what you right wing clowns said it was.

I then outlined for you what it meant.

I tossed in a few stupids and idiots because they are well deserved.

You merey ignored all the real subject matter and went for the only part of the conversation you understood.

the names.

You posted a link.

And you called names.



Perhaps you might try to set an example for us to show us how debate should be done.

 

[Amelia]

fools

idiots

fools

Complete idiots

hypocrit

jesus your stupid

I tossed in a few stupids and idiots because they are well deserved.

Constructive discourse at its best.

 

[Truthmatters]

How stupid and unthinking would you have to be to take it knowing full well that there is no way in hell you can afford the payments??

I find it hard to believe anyone could be that dumb on both sides.

Where is your blame for a lender who would offer the loan KNOWING the person will pay the interest for a couple of years and then default.

The bank having recieved the interest and then get the house to resell.

No you like a fool just blame the little guy who trusted the experts.

Do you know what a sub prime is caludette?

I explained it to you.

 

[Truthmatters]

How stupid and unthinking would you have to be to take it knowing full well that there is no way in hell you can afford the payments??

I find it hard to believe anyone could be that dumb on both sides.

Where is your blame for a lender who would offer the loan KNOWING the person will pay the interest for a couple of years and then default.

The bank having recieved the interest and then get the house to resell.

No you like a fool just blame the little guy who trusted the experts.

Do you know what a sub prime is caludette?

and explained it to you