Property taxes and schools

[BaronVonBigmeat]

Property taxes are a bunch of crap. If something is truly property, that means you own it outright and no one can legally take it from you. If you pay a fee on something you posess, then you are merely renting it from the state.

The best possible solution would be to eliminate property taxes and eliminate government funding and regulation of education. Private charity groups, churches, etc. could teach kids whose parents can't afford it. People would have more money to donate because they wouldn't be paying property taxes.

 

[Mr. P]

No. But I am slightly afraid of other people being on their own to make the same choices responsibly, and their failure to do so adversely affecting me later on.

I know what you mean, but that's no excuse for letting the Gov run things. Lord knows they are a bang of a success now, HUH? Also all the schools would of course have to be licensed, so the Gov wouldn’t be out entirely.

 

[Mr. P]

I have nothing against seniors per se, my dad is one. However, the assumption that all seniors, by age alone should be exempted from any tax, seems absurd from the get go. IF such an exemption were to become law, means testing certainly should be required. BUT, if we're 'means testing' what about low income folks in general? What if they ARE low income, because of how many children they have?

Seems a slippery slope and more taxes on the working middle class.

Low income folks pay property tag? No, not really.

 

[Annie]

Low income folks pay property tag? No, not really.

Yep, many do. When I had the 3 kids as dependents, I was below the poverty level and pay a mortgage.

However, the majority pay through rent. Why shouldn't they get a reduction or the property owner who's building is full of poverty level workers? (Actually I'm not arguing for any such thing. I think that if school taxes are levied based on property taxes, it should be supported by everyone, including seniors).

I don't think this proposal is any better than affirmative action, it's just a different interest group. Like I said, I like seniors. I like blacks, etc. Just think everyone should pay the least possible and not shift the burden.

 

[Mr. P]

Yep, many do. When I had the 3 kids as dependents, I was below the poverty level and pay a mortgage.

However, the majority pay through rent. Why shouldn't they get a reduction or the property owner who's building is full of poverty level workers? (Actually I'm not arguing for any such thing. I think that if school taxes are levied based on property taxes, it should be supported by everyone, including seniors).

I don't think this proposal is any better than affirmative action, it's just a different interest group. Like I said, I like seniors. I like blacks, etc. Just think everyone should pay the least possible and not shift the burden.

I know many do pay through rent. I also know they get Gov assistance for that rent.
They get their reduction.

I favor a special local option sales tax for funding. An extra penny of sales tax on the dollar, it works. No it doesn’t fund the entire system, but hey, that alone could let seniors off the hook.

 

[Annie]

I know many do pay through rent. I also know they get Gov assistance for that rent.
They get their reduction.

I favor a special local option sales tax for funding. An extra penny of sales tax on the dollar, it works. No it doesn’t fund the entire system, but hey, that alone could let seniors off the hook.

Again, I don't think any group should be on or off the hook. When it comes to taxes, everyone should be equal.

I never got a penny's help from the government, we made do. Not all 'working poor' do get assistance for rent, but all rent includes the entire mortgage payment, whatever utilities are provided, taxes, upkeep, and profit. Otherwise, why would one be a landlord?

No more sales taxes! Cut taxes, be fair. If people think the schools are worth it, they'll pay. (Around here, they pretty consistently pass referendums for increasing percentage to schools.)

 

[Mr. P]

Again, I don't think any group should be on or off the hook. When it comes to taxes, everyone should be equal.

I never got a penny's help from the government, we made do. Not all 'working poor' do get assistance for rent, but all rent includes the entire mortgage payment, whatever utilities are provided, taxes, upkeep, and profit. Otherwise, why would one be a landlord?

No more sales taxes! Cut taxes, be fair. If people think the schools are worth it, they'll pay. (Around here, they pretty consistently pass referendums for increasing percentage to schools.)

BULL!! People are FORCED to pay they have no choice. What this "If people think the schools are worth it" crap?

And why do yo seem to take this personal?

 

[Annie]

BULL!! People are FORCED to pay they have no choice. What this "If people think the schools are worth it" crap?

And why do yo seem to take this personal?

Nope, I'm NOT taking it personally. I'm making a serious point here. For some started out saying seniors should get a break or not pay school taxes at all. Then I brought up 'means testing' and someone said, why of course! (Actually many seniors are quite wealthy. ) Then if 'means testing' is for one group, why not another?

I can't believe we have people arguing to shift the tax burden more onto the 'working middle class.' For many people in the middle, property taxes are most certainly among the most painful! Of the slightly over $4k I pay, over $3k is for schools. (surprising how little it costs for police, fire, libraries, water, garbage collection, county taxes, etc.)

I can watch how much the schools are getting in my property taxes, but at nearly a 7% sales tax rate, close to 9% in Chicago, I don't want anymore sales taxes-which would bump gas even higher.

Seriously, I don't think there should be a 'tax break' regarding any group. If a community feels they are not getting their monies worth out of their schools, they should change what is going on. Pull in the purse strings, incorporate charters like you were saying earlier, try to write something for vouchers, whatever seems most viable to that community. I was speaking about mine, where property values are still going up and many feel it's BECAUSE of the schools-thus they keep voting for the every other year referendums. I'm not saying I do, just what is happening around here.

 

[Mr. P]

Nope, I'm NOT taking it personally. I'm making a serious point here. For some started out saying seniors should get a break or not pay school taxes at all. Then I brought up 'means testing' and someone said, why of course! (Actually many seniors are quite wealthy. ) Then if 'means testing' is for one group, why not another?

I can't believe we have people arguing to shift the tax burden more onto the 'working middle class.' For many people in the middle, property taxes are most certainly among the most painful! Of the slightly over $4k I pay, over $3k is for schools. (surprising how little it costs for police, fire, libraries, water, garbage collection, county taxes, etc.)

I can watch how much the schools are getting in my property taxes, but at nearly a 7% sales tax rate, close to 9% in Chicago, I don't want anymore sales taxes-which would bump gas even higher.

Seriously, I don't think there should be a 'tax break' regarding any group. If a community feels they are not getting their monies worth out of their schools, they should change what is going on. Pull in the purse strings, incorporate charters like you were saying earlier, try to write something for vouchers, whatever seems most viable to that community. I was speaking about mine, where property values are still going up and many feel it's BECAUSE of the schools-thus they keep voting for the every other year referendums. I'm not saying I do, just what is happening around here.

Damn you pay high taxes! I already knew that though, are ya getting what you pay for?

That is part of my point overall. There should be a return on $$$ even if it's taken by force.

 

[Annie]

Damn you pay high taxes! I already knew that though, are ya getting what you pay for?

That is part of my point overall. There should be a return on $$$ even if it's taken by force.

I know! Yes, for the most part we 'are' getting what we pay for, if you want your kid to go to college, our district is mostly a prep system. Illinois law requires that all juniors take the ACT-yes even the Down's syndrome kids. The state average just went up to I think it was just over 20. Our district's average is 24 something, which is quite high, considering it is 100%.

Now you might ask me the point of this requirement by the state? Hell if I know why they force nearly every kid-college bound or not to take the ACT. Geniuses at State Board of Education I guess. Mind you, they still have to take the state exams too. Brilliant, I love this state. NOT.

You would be even more pissed if you knew that when the kids are in high school, we pay for their books. I mean like to the tune of up to $450 one year, for one of my sons; another $350 for the other. AP Electronics was over $90! Driver's Ed, another $75. We pay for all extracurricular, including uniforms. Our school does NOT have a swimming pool, not one of the 4!

Personally, I think they could be more efficient in tossing out the mainstreaming for severe kids, bd, etc. They could try to use more state supplied books, but the teacher's balk at the publishing dates. I do know how to use current events to supplement what's happened since 2002, wouldn't you? :

 

[manu1959]

if you get to pick this...then i don't want my taxes going to:

welfare

fund overseas military bases

any pork barrell spending

social security

shall i go on

 

[Annie]

if you get to pick this...then i don't want my taxes going to:

welfare

fund overseas military bases

any pork barrell spending

social security

shall i go on

I agree with welfare, pork barrel, SS. I'm not sure which types of bases you mean? Like our bases in Okinawa, etc? Israel?

 

[Mr. P]

if you get to pick this...then i don't want my taxes going to:

welfare

fund overseas military bases

any pork barrell spending

social security

shall i go on

No, cuz your local property taxes don’t go to any of those things.:

 

[manu1959]

No, cuz your local property taxes don’t go to any of those things.:

i live in a local property tax free city

 

[Annie]

i live in a local property tax free city

So, how are your schools funded?

 

[manu1959]

So, how are your schools funded?

we are a sales tax city, there are state property taxes, we do bonds, we vote sales taxes stuff in, give money to the district through auctions, people just give money......but no city property taxes.....

 

[manu1959]

I agree with welfare, pork barrel, SS. I'm not sure which types of bases you mean? Like our bases in Okinawa, etc? Israel?

i mean any military base outside the US.....if we are not at war we should not have a base abroad....

 

[Mr.Conley]

So how do we justify 'exempting' one group, by age and means testing? How is that fair/constitutional?

It's completely unfair and probably not constitutional. I'm biased though, I've seen elderly neighbors nearly lose their homes because of riddiculous property taxes. Personally I'm with the Baron on this one. Property taxes are unjustified and practically make the land you own a government lease. Then again, the city needs to make money, so it's complex. I just think that it'd be "fairer" then the system we've got.

 

[Annie]

we are a sales tax city, there are state property taxes, we do bonds, we vote sales taxes stuff in, give money to the district through auctions, people just give money......but no city property taxes.....

What is the sales tax rate? Is it a 'wealthy' area, like 'no poor'? How can the schools budget on 'money given?'

 

[Mr. P]

i live in a local property tax free city

Bragger! But hey,

we are a sales tax city, there are state property taxes, we do bonds, we vote sales taxes stuff in, give money to the district through auctions, people just give money......but no city property taxes.....

that's what I mean, there are other ways to fund schools besides raping the elderly.