Prop 8 in California

[Truthspeaker]

The ones that get insecure doubt their own beliefs. They have to have as many agree with, and force as many to live by, those beliefs so they can justify to themselves "well, everyone else believes it to so it must be fact." It's a lack of belief in their own believes that makes them insecure, and thus why they have to force people to live by their beliefs so much. Even when their own religion states that it's not right to do so.

Nobody else can figure out what you're saying because they weren't there when you launched that feeble but lengthy attack on the Mormons. But I was there and I can see through your weird little statement. I still believe in my religion even though you still claim I don't but if you want me to expose you again I will.

 

[KittenKoder]

Nobody else can figure out what you're saying because they weren't there when you launched that feeble but lengthy attack on the Mormons. But I was there and I can see through your weird little statement. I still believe in my religion even though you still claim I don't but if you want me to expose you again I will.

See? You do like playing th victim since I didn't mention you or Mormonism in the post, you just had to interject yourself.

 

[Truthspeaker]

See? You do like playing th victim since I didn't mention you or Mormonism in the post, you just had to interject yourself.

You are slick to not bring it up. You know better.

 

[Cecilie1200]

What "seems painfully obvious" to you doesn't mean that its true. What makes human beings so special that they deserve better treatment than animals? From an atheistic-agnostic point of view, humans are no more important nor better than anything else in the Universe including microscopic specks of dust. However, from a living sentient organism's point of view, life is better than non-life or death. And from my point of view, everything living is equal; though I would choose my pets' lives over that of a stranger's. From a humanist point of view, all human beings are equal no matter what.

It's got nothing to do with religion. What makes human beings so special that they deserve higher regard from OTHER HUMANS? Do you actually have to ask that? Do you think dogs ask themselves why they should favor other dogs over . . . say, cats? Y'think lions on the savannah torture themselves over that gazelle being as worthy and important as they are and not deserving to die to feed the rest of the pride? If nothing else, it's natural instinct to value one's own species and perpetuate it. From the standpoint of a being that can actually waste time navel-gazing and overthinking this stuff, it's a bit hard for me to ask other humans to value MY life if I'm not willing to extend the same courtesy to them. Duhhh.

For the record, although I like my pets a lot more than I like you - I also think they're probably smarter and I know they're better company - if I could only save one of you in a fire, it would be you, because you're a worthless human, but you're still a human.

We can't know what someone else's experiences are nor the forces which shaped that person. We can't understand everything that causes a person to make the decisions he or she makes. All we can do is accept that that person is him or her because they have been shaped that way, and that they made those decisions. That doesn't mean we shouldn't protect ourselves from those who try to harm us, it just means that something happened to that person to persuade them to make the decisions they did or to shape them the way they've been shaped.

I haven't a clue what this has to do with anything being discussed.

From a Christian point of view only Christians of the same caliber and sect are equal: Christians think non-Christians will burn forever, Baptists believe that non-baptists will burn forever, Mormons think non-Mormons will live in an outer circle of heaven, 7th Day Adventists believe anyone who isn't 7th Day Adventist will burn forever. Not a very humane perspective, from my point of view. Although I am generalizing it has been my experience that many Christians won't tolerate someone who believes something different i.e. Truthspeaks not inviting his gay family member's lover over for Thanksgiving dinner. And do Christians believe that homosexuals will burn forever? I thought Jesus taught acceptance of others and tolerance for those who are different. Isn't the Christian God merciful, forgiving, and loving of his creations? Why then do so many who believe in him hate and discriminate?

You will discover very quickly that I have nothing but contempt for people like you who want to pontificate upon beliefs they don't share and delude themselves that people are eager for their instruction on how to "properly" practice said unshared beliefs.

In other words, please hold your breath until I ask you to define what Christians do and don't believe.

From my point of view, dogmatically held beliefs are hurtful to others and wrap those who cling to them in blind ignorance. This is the problem I have with religion. It divides people. It harms them as much or more than it comforts them.

You mean like the dogmatic belief that religious people are automatically mean and biased and hateful, and just need to have a little of your liberal wisdom and brilliance injected into their pathetic little lives to enlighten them?

Although THAT dogma is only hurtful to the fool holding it. To everyone else, it's immensely amusing, like a monkey wearing a hat and dancing to a calliope.

 

[chrismac]

I think the question with Prop 8 is, should society's issue with homosexuality be reason enough to relax our view of the democratic process.

The main problem I have with the homosexual movement in this country actually has nothing to with their sexual orientation. As weird as it might sound, that's the least offensive part of them. Their insistence that the courts foist gay marriage on the rest of society on the basis of shaky constitutional precedence, their ignorance to what marriage is (both as a religious institution and civil institution), and their hair-trigger, quick-to-condemn attitude is what is most offensive.

The people voted twice, and said they didn't want gay marriage. Instead of supporters putting in the leg work to bring people to their cause the hard way, they'd rather do an end run around the voters and go to court and tell the courts to make the people accept them.

I think that's shady as hell. I don't really condone homophobia or any other kind of prejudice, but I have to admit: I understand where it comes from with gay people. They want to make marriage policy a wedge issue in elections, but not for the sake of marriage and all it's vestiges, but just as a litmus test to determine how accepting society is of homosexuality.